Plea to My Fellow Warlocks

[Lucrece]

One of your failures is to continue cherry picking affliction when the comparison I referenced was ranged specs in general. Cmon man.

And demonwrath generates shards while moving. Nothing hyperbolic about that. Are you sure you know what hyperbole means?

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and since you asked:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

demo is the highest boss dps amongst the ranged specs on mythic helya @75th percentile. Changes slightly at higher percentiles but Demo still crushing most other ranged specs' boss damage. It is not overly suffering dps-wise from movement. Just facts.

Talks about cherrypicking, proceed to cherrypick demo mythic helya at a shitty 75th percentile.

Demonwrath is not a reliable shard generator on a single target with movement, period. You cast it because you got nothing else better to cast. It's like saying if shadow priests were able to cast mindsear on the move that they wouldn't suffer with damage on the move without StM because they can fill empty GCD's with a shitty aoe spell as a consolation prize.

Demo is a turret spec and suffers from movement. It loses a lot more from movement than other specs. You point out other ranged specs falling below demo but that's misleading because their issues are numbers ones. BM hunters lose little from movement but their problem is their spells are tuned like shit. Mages got wrecked. The only casters who are doing particularly well are shadow priest followed by warlock.

The question is not whether demo beats other class specs but how much of its potential damage it loses when it has to move. There's also the problem in how most demo locks play, which is that they sit on a boss (like odyn) and ignore priority adds while the other classes do the work so they will always show high as a result on boss damage because if they tried to do add work/target switching they'd plummet.

It's not uncommon with Helya that during the opener the demo lock just tunnels his thal'kiel setup on Helya after she's already used breath and while the other ranged are already DPS'ing slimes the demo lock is instead pumping out his TKC on Helya.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Talks about cherrypicking, proceed to cherrypick demo mythic helya at a shitty 75th percentile.

Demonwrath is not a reliable shard generator on a single target with movement, period. You cast it because you got nothing else better to cast. It's like saying if shadow priests were able to cast mindsear on the move that they wouldn't suffer with damage on the move without StM because they can fill empty GCD's with a shitty aoe spell as a consolation prize.

Demo is a turret spec and suffers from movement. It loses a lot more from movement than other specs. You point out other ranged specs falling below demo but that's misleading because their issues are numbers ones. BM hunters lose little from movement but their problem is their spells are tuned like shit.

The question is not whether demo beats other class specs but how much of its potential damage it loses when it has to move.

lol man. YOU tried to claim Helya proved your point. I showed even YOUR cherry picked example was bs. Now when shown that Demo keeps more of it's damage in a movement situation than other specs you claim its that those other specs aren't tuned properly. Try harder, this is becoming funny.

Demo loses demonbolt/shadow bolt during movement, which is partially compensated by demonwrath. That's it. Just because you don't have a lot of buttons to press while moving doesn't mean it's damage suffers. Those are different things.

[Shadocat]

Please stop being tuning slaves arguing/drooling over every minor 5/10% buff/nerf. Demand better from blizzard, better and more engaging class design.

You can't demand crap from them and no one there is really listening to any of this.
All you can do is stop playing warlock and even this should go unnoticed for quite some while even if no one at all
plays warlock anymore.

Make the best of it or quit.

[Lucrece]

lol man. YOU tried to claim Helya proved your point. I showed even YOUR cherry picked example was bs. Now when shown that Demo keeps more of it's damage in a movement situation than other specs you claim its that those other specs aren't tuned properly. Try harder, this is becoming funny.

Demo loses demonbolt/shadow bolt during movement, which is partially compensated by demonwrath. That's it. Just because you don't have a lot of buttons to press while moving doesn't mean it's damage suffers. Those are different things.

Don't feel like talking at a wall that can't distinguish the difference in damage output in a nythendra patchwerk vs movement heavy fights, and instead fixates on beating undertuned casters to make the point movement doesn't hurt damage.

Keep trying to sell people the lie that a spec whose resource generation is generated in bulk by casts doesn't suffer from not being able to cast while moving.

[Tikishock]

My thoughts on Affliction gameplay is mostly minor.

Do I wish we had another standard DoT to track? Yes

Do I miss Soul Swap the way it was from WoD which was pretty balance in that it cost a lot of soul shards? Yes

Do I wish we had a dps cooldown to use? Yes

Do I overall like the fact that our spec is a DoT and Drain spec? Yes

Am I noob with almost no notable in-game achievements? Yes

[Turturin the Warlock]

Don't feel like talking at a wall that can't distinguish the difference in damage output in a nythendra patchwerk vs movement heavy fights, and instead fixates on beating undertuned casters to make the point movement doesn't hurt damage.

Keep trying to sell people the lie that a spec whose resource generation is generated in bulk by casts doesn't suffer from not being able to cast while moving.

I'm not selling anything. I'm pointing out facts. They don't fit your "woe is me" narrative so you choose to dismiss them. Its ok, though, you don't feel like talking to me so you won't respond to this, right?

[Baconeggcheese]

This is kinda tense right now I'm not gonna lie.

[Deleted]

Soul Effigy is fine in theory, it's just shite in practice because the thing can be such a pain in the arse to use effectively.

I quite like Effigy for the dotting, but there's a whole bunch of quality-of-play issues with it

[Lucrece]

I think making Soul Effigy instant cast or castable on the move and retain the dots that were previously applied on it would probably quiet down most of the complaints about it.

[raz98]

ITT OP outs himself as a slavering faggot. Throws tantrum when noone agrees with him.

[KrazyK923]

Or just quit because the playstyles are garbage.

...which will get ignored by a large segment of Warlock players because our numbers were buffed.

But having a stronger piece of dog shit doesn't change the fact that you have a piece of dog shit.

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TBH I really enjoy Demonology's class fantasy. When it was first announced we are loosing Meta and all those things that made US a demon, I was very upset and I thought on re-rolling. However, once I tried playing the spec, I really like the "summoner" feel that demonology should have been from day 1 in Vanilla.

What I don't like, is the execution. Casting maintenance buff (empowerment) followed by a brainless filler spell (life tap) is something I strongly dislike and disagree with. Blizzard even admitted empowerment was a mistake, and will hopefully address it in 7.2. (removing it would be great).
I also don't like unresponsive pet AI (which disables me on many fights where target switching is mandatory and where adds don't have to die in 10 seconds) and I don't like that we only get to summon dogs and lowly imps, while being master summoners and at the same time utilizing the power of talking head of one of the first and most powerful summoners ever.

Its almost like the fantasy of a Master Summoner shouldn't be just managing ~8-10 imps, the weakest demon in the lore, and 2 dreadstalkers, new slightly-different not-felhunters. Whoopie. DHs destroyed the Warlock class, most severely Demonology, and they still don't seem to know what the spec fantasies should be.

[Duckz0rs]

I actually the concept of SE now that I've played more with it. It brings back a distinction that was important to me between Shadow and Affliction; Shadow has two dots and mostly focuses on mind blast/mind flay and aff has to juggle dots, now even on single target. Aff = dots in its core, Shadow = dots as an extra (mechanically at least).

I'm not a fan of the execution, but literally all my complaints would be solved by making the effigy follow the warlock. Instantly easy to track as its next to you, so no more need for an extra WA or focus target and you don't have to recast the effigy on fights like Elerethe.

[Tikishock]

The only real question I have with Soul Effigy is why couldn't it just follow the Warlock around? Or, why can't it be cast on a target and then pulse out a percentage of the DoTs on it to mobs within 8 yards or something?

Wouldn't that also solve a lot of complaints about it? It could almost be like a buff that a Lock could click off if need be or else it would be attached to a mob that would work well in single target fights or council fights or even in situations in which sustained AoE is needed.

I don't know, could be a stupid suggestion. I'm not a game designer or anything and I spent all of 20 seconds coming up with the idea which I'm sure has been suggest a million times before. I just like the idea of soul effigy in regards to Affliction spec class fantasy. It's just that I don't like the idea of babysitting it outside of maintaining DoTs on it.

[Lucrece]

I actually the concept of SE now that I've played more with it. It brings back a distinction that was important to me between Shadow and Affliction; Shadow has two dots and mostly focuses on mind blast/mind flay and aff has to juggle dots, now even on single target. Aff = dots in its core, Shadow = dots as an extra (mechanically at least).

I'm not a fan of the execution, but literally all my complaints would be solved by making the effigy follow the warlock. Instantly easy to track as its next to you, so no more need for an extra WA or focus target and you don't have to recast the effigy on fights like Elerethe.

Shadows top damage sources are the dots. Affliction's mindflay and mindblast are just fillers to keep the dots empowered.

The difference between aff and shadow is that shadow has burst and the means to refresh dots on multiple targets with a single spell instead of individually reapplying dots. Affliction has better mass aoe, that's it.

[Styxz]

I think Aff is actually quite fun is you run MG/SC, challenging even. Sure it sucks seeing your numbers with 5 stacks of WoC and a steady flow of souls vs not, but the spec feels fun. Tugh separate UA applications is obscure af. No other dot behaves like that, afaik. The artifact needs some work, but I'd say it's def on the up and up now.

Demo was my main spec until this patch. I love the idea of it, of summoning and empowering hordes of powerful demons. But it's proven impractical in real world application. The spec suffers disproportionately from movement, and encourages pretty bad play to maintain it's turret play style, including ignoring ads and standing in bad. Constantly casting DE is not fun. Straight up. There's no postive feedback from hitting the button at all. Wouldn't even know if it was up or not if not for weak auras. Give it more options for movement, more flexibility for various encounter mechanics other than boss damage, and play up the fantasy more (more and stronger demons that last longer) while making DE less of a chore.

Destro has never been fun to me, having previously mained a mage. Havok is great, but there's nothing else the spec does better than fire imo. That said, it feels unnecessarily restrained in Legion. Why are so many abilities talents now? Why does CB not hit as hard as it has historically? It feels like a dump spell, not an "oh-shit-get-rekt" button anymore. Not quite sure what needs to be changed to address this.

All of that said, I'm enjoying my lock again with 7.1.5. We're doing really good damage, particularly as aff it seems. I'm able to hang with 880s and 890s with legendaries in my mythic plus runs being only 876 with only Norgs boots for a legendary.

[Duckz0rs]

Shadows top damage sources are the dots. Affliction's mindflay and mindblast are just fillers to keep the dots empowered.

As I mentioned, I was only talking about how the spec works on a mechanical level.

The difference between aff and shadow is that shadow has burst and the means to refresh dots on multiple targets with a single spell instead of individually reapplying dots. Affliction has better mass aoe, that's it.

Uh, yeah, that's kind of exactly what I meant. Keeping dots up isnt a big deal for shadow because they have to means to refresh them on several targets at a time. For Affliction it is a core mechanic becuase they spend most of their time manually refreshing on several targets. You spend more time in shadow pressing those burst buttons, hence that's more core to the spec...

And I'm not talking about numbers. I'm talking about gameplay; which buttons you press how often for what reason.

[Cardio32]

You can't demand crap from them and no one there is really listening to any of this.
All you can do is stop playing warlock and even this should go unnoticed for quite some while even if no one at all
plays warlock anymore.

Make the best of it or quit.

I like this theory, if problems go unnoticed then people will reroll or quit, if that's the case my theory would show that not a lot of people are playing warlock. Let's take a look at the numbers:

Overall % of people at 110:
http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes
Yikes, 3rd least played ahead of monk (failed xpac class) and rogue

Stats for +2 mythic boss kills:
http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/classes
Looks like 3 "tolerable" specs without one truly pulling ahead.

If you look at active 110 distribution it looks like warlocks suffered heavy rerolls to DH and spriest.

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ITT OP outs himself as a slavering faggot. Throws tantrum when noone agrees with him.

Interesting how you came to that conclusion. Maybe re-read responses? It looks like I was speaking for the majority other than SE, for some reason several players seem to enjoy that mechanic /boggle

[TriHard]

LUL @wHen someone tries to explain something and all they can come up with is "clunky"
You know the devs hate that word, right? Because it has lost it's meaning over the years.

[Cardio32]

LUL @wHen someone tries to explain something and all they can come up with is "clunky"
You know the devs hate that word, right? Because it has lost it's meaning over the years.

Clunky is very easy to explain now b/c we have a perfect example, just point to everything demonology.

1. Needs addons/WAs to be played effectively
2. Slave to timers and addons making you miss certain boss mechanics
3. Turret monkey with practically zero mobility

Justin Bieber = douche
Demonology = clunky