Legion PVP compared to MoP

[scvd]

Pvp is not a priority.

What is? Cause it sure as hell ain't PVE.

[rda]

What is? Cause it sure as hell ain't PVE.

Tying players to the game by widely spacing rewards and instilling the sense that they have to get them (or they lost all their previous time playing, or they are no longer adequate compared to their peers, etc, tens of tricks here).

[RelaZ]

I got challenger and 2.2k in s13, 2k in RBGs. So yeah I played during the time, thanks. Infact, that was when i took PvP the most serious I have ever taken it in my entire 8/9 years of WoW. Ferals did not get nerfed during s13. Jungle cleave was the most OP comp during 5.3, perhaps PHDK beating it out at times.

Reading comprehension fail. I said it got nerfed heavily after s13. You suggested it got nerfed first in s15, which is untrue.

And oh my god, are you saying playing against BM was better then than now? For real? Using readiness/prep effectively is somehow skillful?

Yes. It's basically chess vs checkers. Using abilities (especially abilites that impact your other abilities) requires more skill than using... well nothing.

Scatter+trap+intimidation+silencing shot (while the pet and stampede is murdering someone) and then, heres the big skillful bit: press readiness and do it again. Fun to play against? A single class sitting your healer in 30 seconds of CC while his zoo is murdering your caster who cannot run from the physical damaged ranged class or the menagerie he commands. Thats not my idea of fun gameplay. AND NO, bugged stampede was fixed sometime in s12, not s13 where BM was still the most disgusting class at the time.

And again, when people say they want MoP back they mean s15 - not s13. And either way, having utility and being able to do stuff is way superior to Legion where no one has anything and all that matters is damage.

The fact that they even had "bugged" (lol, blizzard retconning themselves) stampede for more than a week is stupid in itself, but that BM was still horrendously overpowered for all of s13 is simple proof that they were not "skillful" or "fun". Fun for the hunter, and the team he was carrying, alone.

I dont know how your mind works, but things can be fun to play even if it's overpowered. Actually things are generally more fun to play when they are overpowered. Sure, as I've said before BM was too good for too long in early MoP but regardless the game as a whole was far more fun to play - because you were able to actually do things.

Blizzard were a lot slower to make PvP changes back in those days. MoP design + current hotfix speed is obviously what people are asking for, not for everything to go back to the way it was. They want the good parts of MoP back, like the design where people actually had abilities and could make things happen.

S14 was much better, I agree. Brought back a lot of fun classes and it did finally (after a year: keep in mind we have only had 5 months of legion at this point) nerf BM hunters and made the less retarded MM and survival viable, but still. S15 was wizard land, dampening or not. Don't remember any viable dk teams at that point. Blizzcon finals was an LSD mirror. Speaks for itself really. s14 at least was certainly a more balanced period of the game, but still had stupid symbiosis and CC lasted way too long, and this is coming from primarily a caster at the time (also played rogue). Everything was instant and unavoidable. Not to say it isnt now, but theres less stupid shit to worry about.

I guess we just disagree. I think CC is an integral part of the game that should be increased. Some of the instant stuff (like PS+Cyclone for Ferals) was pretty stupid, and was cut after s14.

Also love all this "higher rated pvp players will disagree" when I remember the shitstorms created during MoP when all the old school pvpers were quitting because of the shambles that s12 and s13 were, both long seasons. s7+s8 and s11 (on the tournament realm) were the pinnacles of competitive arena in this game, and blizzard doesnt seem to be able to recover that feeling. S14 comes after that I suppose, and even those 4 seasons had broken stuff that was easily fixed but blizzard refused. Sometimes I think they want their pvp playerbase to up and quit.

Ask any high rated player and they'll say s7, s8, s10/11 and s14/s15 were the best seasons of this game. I'm not saying s10/s11 or wotlk was bad, I just don't think we'll ever get back there again. And again, if blizzard had just speeded up the buff/nerf speed in early MoP (before they hired Holinka) s13 could've been alright too.

[Deleted]

My main gripe is just that it feels like it's way too easy to play right under the skill ceiling. There isn't muich difference between 1.8k, 2.2k and 2.6k anymore in comparison to before. Team PvP may be fun and all, but solo PvP and the dueling scene is pretty much dead.

Dunno, may be subjective but I remember having to practice in duels and now I can pretty much just go in with my PvE rotation, keep my eye on positioning and I'm golden with whatever class I play. The payoff then is just dependent on current state of class balance.

It feels bland.

[Deleted]

What is? Cause it sure as hell ain't PVE.

But sadly it is. I agree though that despite Blizzard development team for WoW being a one trick pony of "raid raid raid raid raid" they still fail to deliver that much on that section. I mean if raids are the only thing that they have any semblance of competence for, they should release much more raids than what they offer and more than your usual trash/hallway with lot of trash/raid boss/repeat lazy design of raids.

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My main gripe is just that it feels like it's way too easy to play right under the skill ceiling. There isn't muich difference between 1.8k, 2.2k and 2.6k anymore in comparison to before. Team PvP may be fun and all, but solo PvP and the dueling scene is pretty much dead.

Dunno, may be subjective but I remember having to practice in duels and now I can pretty much just go in with my PvE rotation, keep my eye on positioning and I'm golden with whatever class I play. The payoff then is just dependent on current state of class balance.

It feels bland.

Because the usual clueless "pros" at Blizzard deemed that utility spells were boring and that the only fun thing to do is to press on a button and see big damage appear. I mean if we see the current trend of their products lately (hearthstone, overwatch, HOTS, diablo), they seem to go for the full braindead video game experience.

But hey, they decided to call the same technique with different name and consider that "class fantasy" while in fact all they do is offer the same abilities with different colors, failing to comprehend that what adds depth to the game are utility and situational spell because thats what separates the standard mouthbreather from someone actually thinking before pressing on buttons

[xZerocidex]

My main gripe is just that it feels like it's way too easy to play right under the skill ceiling. There isn't muich difference between 1.8k, 2.2k and 2.6k anymore in comparison to before. Team PvP may be fun and all, but solo PvP and the dueling scene is pretty much dead.

Dunno, may be subjective but I remember having to practice in duels and now I can pretty much just go in with my PvE rotation, keep my eye on positioning and I'm golden with whatever class I play. The payoff then is just dependent on current state of class balance.

It feels bland.

Yeah, I remember in MoP dueling classes as a Hunter learning their strengths and weaknesses developing new strats on how to beat them.

Fun times

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But sadly it is. I agree though that despite Blizzard development team for WoW being a one trick pony of "raid raid raid raid raid" they still fail to deliver that much on that section. I mean if raids are the only thing that they have any semblance of competence for, they should release much more raids than what they offer and more than your usual trash/hallway with lot of trash/raid boss/repeat lazy design of raids.

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Because the usual clueless "pros" at Blizzard deemed that utility spells were boring and that the only fun thing to do is to press on a button and see big damage appear. I mean if we see the current trend of their products lately (hearthstone, overwatch, HOTS, diablo), they seem to go for the full braindead video game experience.

But hey, they decided to call the same technique with different name and consider that "class fantasy" while in fact all they do is offer the same abilities with different colors, failing to comprehend that what adds depth to the game are utility and situational spell because thats what separates the standard mouthbreather from someone actually thinking before pressing on buttons

All for the sake of pruning, Ornyx over at the Blizzard Forums made that moronic post about new players being overwhelmed with the selection of abilities that we had at the time so their best solution was remove it. Hell, why not go the extra mile and play for the players while they at it?