Legion - Subtlety discussion

[shardee]

From what I see, AMR measures shoulders incorrectly. I believe it assumes that shoulers work with SD, which is wrong. There is no other explanation, why AMR states that shoulders are 130k dps buff.

Hmm seams interesting, so real bis are Bracers + Boots for ST and Cloak + Boots for MT ?

[shaunika123]

Hmm seams interesting, so real bis are Bracers + Boots for ST and Cloak + Boots for MT ?

i'd assume boots are better with the shoulders since more energy during subterfuge->more crits->more dps

[elfporn]

Atm, boots are still highly valuable. AMR told me that bis legendaries are Boots + Shoulders. Bracers are also really insteresting, and cloak is bis for fights like Skorpyron, Spellblade, and other fights with tons of adds.

So basicaly, you are looking for Boots + shoulders for ST and at least Cloak for MT.

The shoulders are only BiS if you can Sprint-->vanish every time it's up. In a real world raiding situation that's just not going to happen.

You could possibly make a stopattack macro that stops attacking, uses sprint, and cloaks all on the same button press to make better use of the shoulders, but you're also losing sprint's utility - it's a big gamble where you need movement on demand, not to mention the potential loss of cloak.

The best legendary is the bracers.

Best ST combo is bracers+shoulders or bracers+boots.

Best all-around aoe/st/cleave combo is bracers+cloak

Best aoe combo is of course cloak+shoulders or any any combination of shoulders, cloak, and trinket. If you're quick on the draw you could do well with belt+cloak for first strike burst aoe.

All of our legendaries are pretty strong, boots are fairly unimpressive now, but complement the bracers very nicely.

My preferred loadout would be bracers+cloak. I could do well in every situation with those two.

[Critical92]

I still hope that blizz realize they went overboard with the boots nerf, like they did with the Ret and CoF nerf.
Who still uses boots when he/she has access to bracers + one of the other good legys?

[Clinkzthebonerogue]

Calling it right now that all our traits going to get nerfed by the time it hits live some way or another.

[shaunika123]

I still hope that blizz realize they went overboard with the boots nerf, like they did with the Ret and CoF nerf.
Who still uses boots when he/she has access to bracers + one of the other good legys?

you do realize boots are still basically one of the best sub legendaries right?

[elfporn]

Calling it right now that all our traits going to get nerfed by the time it hits live some way or another.

The only things likely to get the chopping block will be CD reduction/uptime traits or legendaries. Otherwise they would have to nerf every spec's traits.

As it is i don't think they will nerf sub's traits at all, it will probably be a loss to stack any one trait to 8 at the detriment of others, for example energetic stabbing at 40 energy would be overkill. 40% proc chance on double shadow tech would be nice though

[Blayke]

The shoulders are only BiS if you can Sprint-->vanish every time it's up. In a real world raiding situation that's just not going to happen.

You could possibly make a stopattack macro that stops attacking, uses sprint, and cloaks all on the same button press to make better use of the shoulders, but you're also losing sprint's utility - it's a big gamble where you need movement on demand, not to mention the potential loss of cloak.

The best legendary is the bracers.

Best ST combo is bracers+shoulders or bracers+boots.<snip>

My preferred loadout would be bracers+cloak. I could do well in every situation with those two.

I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying the shoulders are good or not? Seems like you've given arguements for both sides.

As far as the cloak goes, doesn't it only proc on actual stealth, as opposed to shadow step? Seems as though that would limit it's usefulness a bit, although the boatload of mastery would certainly be a plus.

[DeadDream]

It looks like some changes were done to AMR, since now leg shoulders are shown as 15k dps decrease over tier shoulders (for me ofc)

[elfporn]

I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying the shoulders are good or not? Seems like you've given arguements for both sides.

As far as the cloak goes, doesn't it only proc on actual stealth, as opposed to shadow step? Seems as though that would limit it's usefulness a bit, although the boatload of mastery would certainly be a plus.

The shoulder(i assume you meant shoulders, not cloak) only work from stealth, on vanish, or on sprint-->vanish. Afaik, when it was simmed out, it was only BiS is you could squeeze in a sprint-->vanish every time it was up.

So the shoulders are excellent, and excellent in combo.

[shaunika123]

It looks like some changes were done to AMR, since now leg shoulders are shown as 15k dps decrease over tier shoulders (for me ofc)

do you still have 4pc bonus without the shoulders?

[DeadDream]

do you still have 4pc bonus without the shoulders?

2pc with shoulders (normal version)

[Blayke]

The shoulder(i assume you meant shoulders, not cloak) only work from stealth, on vanish, or on sprint-->vanish. Afaik, when it was simmed out, it was only BiS is you could squeeze in a sprint-->vanish every time it was up.

So the shoulders are excellent, and excellent in combo.

You're right, I meant shoulders. Sorry about that. But if, as you say, they only work from stealth or vanish or sprint/vanish, how does that make them excellent? Their usefulness seems rather limited since it pretty much only gives a the buff on the pull and whenever vanish comes off cd. Again, not being argumentative, it just seems like you're actually giving reasons why they're NOT that good.

[elfporn]

You're right, I meant shoulders. Sorry about that. But if, as you say, they only work from stealth or vanish or sprint/vanish, how does that make them excellent? Their usefulness seems rather limited since it pretty much only gives a the buff on the pull and whenever vanish comes off cd. Again, not being argumentative, it just seems like you're actually giving reasons why they're NOT that good.

I personally don't like them because they add another burst window to plan around and may be difficult to utilize optimally in a raid environment, plus losing sprint (or cloak to avoid dmg) is a no-go for me.

But like i said, afaik, if you can get every sprint>vanish off, they are the best, if you can't, they aren't.

[shaunika123]

2pc with shoulders (normal version)

then there's your answer, that 2pc is a lot of dmg for sub A LOT of dmg

[Blayke]

I personally don't like them because they add another burst window to plan around and may be difficult to utilize optimally in a raid environment, plus losing sprint (or cloak to avoid dmg) is a no-go for me.

But like i said, afaik, if you can get every sprint>vanish off, they are the best, if you can't, they aren't.

Ahh, I see what you mean. Thanks. Right now I've got bracers/ring, which isn't too bad. Still waiting for my boots tho.

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then there's your answer, that 2pc is a lot of dmg for sub A LOT of dmg

This in turn begets another question: with the two pc, Nightblade usually outlasts finality by several seconds. If finality:nightblade is up, should I immediately overwrite my current nightblade. The extra 24% damage seems like a lot to pass up, but it also seems to be a lot of cp's that could have gone to evisc. Any thoughts?

[shaunika123]

Ahh, I see what you mean. Thanks. Right now I've got bracers/ring, which isn't too bad. Still waiting for my boots tho.

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This in turn begets another question: with the two pc, Nightblade usually outlasts finality by several seconds. If finality:nightblade is up, should I immediately overwrite my current nightblade. The extra 24% damage seems like a lot to pass up, but it also seems to be a lot of cp's that could have gone to evisc. Any thoughts?

just refresh before finality expires


edit: btw i was lucky enough to get a 895 nightblooming fond tonight, it was doing between 2% and 4% on fights, which, while allright doesnt seem to give the insane boost the sims would suggest, but ofc i need more thorough testing
i was only able to test it on elissande which might skew the results

one proc does around 1,7 mil dmg

[DeadDream]

then there's your answer, that 2pc is a lot of dmg for sub A LOT of dmg

Well, that doesn't answer why couple of days ago, shoulders were simulated as 130k damage increase. 2pc is nowhere near that value. Anyway, i'm sticking with boots+bracers for the moment. Got boots the first day 7.1.5 arrived =\

[Deleted]

just wondering: did anything special happened to sub except the boots nerf and less energy from MoS? im just pooling more energy now before dances, but I dropped from blue/purple logs to green/grey logs.

[Kwakman]

With 2 piece tier I sometimes miss my Nightblade Finality window and lose the buff entirely cause of pandemic not being ready. I might just swap to Anticipation to get rid of that 6 cp + 12 duration to make sure I hit everything.

Anyone else experiencing this problem?