What's the point of flying half a year away from now?

[Bun-Bun]

You're aware flying was a selling feature in TBC

This.

And every xpac after it until WoD where Blizzard bait and switched every customer they have.

[Deleted]

Besides Vanilla only had 6 million subs before TBC,

- - - Updated - - -

In TBC it made sense, because there were Dungeons/Zones you could only reach with a FlyingMount. You did not skip any Content there!

Grasping at straws... TBC didn't require flying unless you wanted the flying mounts. Most people couldn't afford flying immediately at 70

[Coffeh]

The point? For Blizzard to give the false impression they're throwing the players a bone. Let's face it... there is zero reason to not allow flying after you've already completed all the quests. I don't mind making players wait until then. But after then it exists only as an inconvenience. It doesn't add challenge, it doesn't add immersion, it doesn't add anything except time. And why? To slow players down because the content isn't there.

[Bun-Bun]

The point? For Blizzard to give the false impression they're throwing the players a bone. Let's face it... there is zero reason to not allow flying after you've already completed all the quests. I don't mind making players wait until then. But after then it exists only as an inconvenience. It doesn't add challenge, it doesn't add immersion, it doesn't add anything except time. And why? To slow players down because the content isn't there.

Exactly. It will be a year post launch before flight is available. Whats the point then? Glad I saved my money this time around. Blizzard didn't give me the information prior to WoD release. So at least that improved.

[SirCowdog]

Not the way it's been implemented so far in WoD and Legion. I hated Tanaan with a white hot passion. Legion would've been an improvement if it hadn't been locked behind a raid (and to a lesser extent class campaign solely due to the amount of dungeons required to complete it). I'm not on board with anything that isn't 100% soloable, especially as flying has jack all to do with instanced content.

Oh I agree. Pathfinder is the devil. It has nothing to do with flying at all; it's just a laundry list of arbitrary tasks. I was thinking something more along the lines of the TBC druid flight form quests, or even something more modern, like the order hall campaign(which is sort of where they're going in 7.2, I guess?). Woulda been nice if Pathfinder actually had some lore and story tied to it. But it's pretty clear that someone at Blizzard was actively working against flying even getting any acknowledgement. So we get the abortion of Pathfinder instead of something that's actually up to the quality standards of Blizzard.

Thankfully it at least appears that they've realized the mistake of that, and they're doing the order hall mounts and such. Hopefully that means the zone design will also recognize that flying exists in 7.2 and later content.

[Alopex Major]

Thankfully it at least appears that they've realized the mistake of that, and they're doing the order hall mounts and such. Hopefully that means the zone design will also recognize that flying exists in 7.2 and later content.

I admire your optimism, but based on Blizzard's past record I think it's far more likely we'll just be given another flightless island on which to endlessly grind stuff a la Timeless Isle, Isle of Thunder.

[ComputerNerd]

YEA! I don't want to experience the game the way it's meant to be! I want a high level of convenience where I get to the location I want in less than a second! I also want to be positioned above everyone else so I can watch a game of fog!

And your improved gear and experience is already reducing the impact of what was never meant to be "difficult".
So what exactly is the definition of "how it is means to be played" that isn't entirely your own arbitrary fabrication.
Even blizzard are not consistent in that, such that at level cap and with now no pre-requisites there is the flightmaster whistle to bypass half the travel.
Plus various travel aid toys.

The experience of that content will only be "optimal" once.
And given the content design, you can continue to travel on the ground when others who aren't you have the choice to fly.

[SirCowdog]

I admire your optimism, but based on Blizzard's past record I think it's far more likely we'll just be given another flightless island on which to endlessly grind stuff a la Timeless Isle, Isle of Thunder.

Sadly, I think you're probably right. But the past few pages(trolls and all) have just gone over why that wouldn't really be a great idea on Blizzard's part. To summarize: It would basically be a bait and switch after requiring so much effort and time for players to get flying, only to release content that did not involve flying.

While I'm certain it wouldn't cause Blizzard to shut down, or anything drastic like that, it WOULD be a fairly bad thing for them to do. They lost a lot of player good will with WoD, and so far Legion has done a lot to gain some of it back. It would be two steps forward and one step back for them to release flying without anything current to use it on.

[Deleted]

Besides Vanilla only had 6 million subs before TBC,

- - - Updated - - -



TBC didn't require flying unless you wanted the flying mounts. Most people couldn't afford flying immediately at 70

Bullshit! You needed Flying Mounts to reach all Tempest Keep Instances and most Daily-Zones, Kid.

[therealbowser]

It took you 45 minutes to locate some stairs?

This is a real thing; when you're dodging elves and demons and fighting them off, all the while trying to find these elusive hidden stairs that are WAY FAR AWAY from the given world quest (let alone taking the time to realize it's on the roof to begin with), it can easily take over 45 minutes.

Lots of people visit wowhead by then for directions, but those that are more exploratory minded could easily get stuck for an hour looking for these stairs. Suramar is a really annoying city, and a prime example of why we need flying mounts today.

Oh well, at least 7.2 is coming eventually. Maybe next expansion Blizzard will finally realize how bad their "add flying a year after launch" design is. Really though, it wouldn't be much of a problem if it were not for the fact that the worlds are designed to be extremely annoying to traverse in the first place. If the Broken Isles had terrain like Pandaria, there would be a lot fewer complaints I think. Making getting up a hill to reach the world quest right on your minimap turns into a massive 5-10 minute detour will never, ever be fun.

[SirCowdog]

Bullshit! You needed Flying Mounts to reach all Tempest Keep Instances and most Daily-Zones, Kid.

You could be summoned to the entrance if there was a lock. Flying was not specifically required to enter the instance IIRC. You didn't even need the key to open the instance if someone else(or a rogue) was there to do it for you.

[therealbowser]

Besides Vanilla only had 6 million subs before TBC,

- - - Updated - - -



Grasping at straws... TBC didn't require flying unless you wanted the flying mounts. Most people couldn't afford flying immediately at 70

It's technically true; you literally needed them to access Tempest Keep dungeons. If I recall, you couldn't even summon people in, which was an annoyance that Blizzard later changed. Even then, you had to use a warlock as the meeting stone was outside the dungeon.

The first goal of anyone who reached level 70 was to buy a flying mount regardless, and back then flying mounts were super slow so lots of people still used ground mounts to move around to cover ground that wasn't covered with mobs.

That didn't make flying any less of a huge deal, though. And all throughout vanilla one of the most asked for feature was flying mounts. People were ecstatic when they were announced in TBC, no one I knew or heard of complained about them. TBH, I didn't see any complaints about them until Blizzard made it so there was no flying in WoD; suddenly anti-flying is a thing and it has supporters from a vocal minority.

[Thimagryn]

Bullshit! You needed Flying Mounts to reach all Tempest Keep Instances and most Daily-Zones, Kid.

because everyonr did tempest keep in TBC, right.

[therealbowser]

because everyonr did tempest keep in TBC, right.

Is this a serious post? Everyone did Tempest Keep's 5 man dungeons. Literally everyone that hit 70 in TBC and played for more than an hour.

[Dhrizzle]

You could be summoned to the entrance if there was a lock. Flying was not specifically required to enter the instance IIRC. You didn't even need the key to open the instance if someone else(or a rogue) was there to do it for you.

Warlock summons didn't work in Tempest Keep until quite late in the expansion.

[SirCowdog]

Maybe next expansion Blizzard will finally realize how bad their "add flying a year after launch" design is.

I think that really depends on what happens to the player population and the profits of WoW once flying is enabled. And that, in turn, will depend largely on how cool flying is allowed to be in Legion. The whole class mount thing seems to suggest that they want it to be something that players can be interested in, but at the same time it really depends on if they're willing to allow flight to be used on current content.

If all flying is in 7.2 is just a different skin for flight paths, then it'll be clear that Blizzard is done with flying. If there's actually content to use flight on in 7.2, however, then I think it'll be safe to hold out hope for future expansions.

- - - Updated - - -

Warlock summons didn't work in Tempest Keep until quite late in the expansion.

I must be remembering it incorrectly then. But then again, I don't remember having any problem coming up with the gold for the basic flying mount either(even though it was slow as dogcrap flowing uphill in the middle of winter).

[Sentynel]

I don't expect to see 7.2 before summer and it wouldn't surprise me if no one has flying until close to Legion's anniversary. There's still Pathfinder 2 to do and while in print it doesn't look like much we don't know how Blizzard plans to implement it. It could be something that's dragged out another couple of months post patch.

7.2 will most likely land in late March with the raid coming in June.

Expect your flying no later than early May.

[nekobaka]

It would be interesting to see data on if flying actually has a meaningful impact on slowing content consumption like many posters claim. Content in general still gets burned through rapidly in large part due to pushes to gut grinds and those who will not do certain content without flying end up not doing it making any attempts to extend the life of content useless and actually shorten the players attention.

I do see how there are benefits to when flying is added due to the grinds associated to having to be rewarded with flight and those who go back to do old grinds to either get flight or to do now that they have flight. That still does not extend the life of content while there is no flight. There is also the factor that those who participate mainly in instanced gameplay are not impacted flight outside of those who choose to farm.

[SirCowdog]

I don't expect to see 7.2 before summer and it wouldn't surprise me if no one has flying until close to Legion's anniversary. There's still Pathfinder 2 to do and while in print it doesn't look like much we don't know how Blizzard plans to implement it. It could be something that's dragged out another couple of months post patch.

I highly expect it to be burdened with the idiot-mode Paragon reputations coming with 7.2. I suspect that paragon reps might also be used to justify flying only in launch-content for Legion, and not in cutting edge content.

- - - Updated - - -

It would be interesting to see data on if flying actually has a meaningful impact on slowing content consumption like many posters claim. Content in general still gets burned through rapidly in large part due to pushes to gut grinds and those who will not do certain content without flying end up not doing it making any attempts to extend the life of content useless and actually shorten the players attention.

I do see how there are benefits to when flying is added due to the grinds associated to having to be rewarded with flight and those who go back to do old grinds to either get flight or to do now that they have flight. That still does not extend the life of content while there is no flight. There is also the factor that those who participate mainly in instanced gameplay are not impacted flight outside of those who choose to farm.

The only impact flying would have on progression would be the window of time required to complete daily rep grinds, and possibly on farming of crafting mats. When you stop and consider that emissary quests and world quests repopulate on a static time table, the speed at which you actually complete the WQs would have very little impact on the actual time required to progress. All it would really do is allow players to be more efficient, and move on to other aspects of the game after their daily tasks are completed. Throw in hard-locked time gates like Order Hall missions, or RNG quest drops from raids(weekly lockout), and the effect of flying being able to speed up the rate of consumption is further curtailed.

Then you have something like the M+ spam that's going on. Because it's completely instanced content it has absolutely NOTHING to do with ground or air mounts. but is allowing players to progress their characters at a massively accelerated pace. And gear from M+ will do far more to trivialize open world content than flying could ever hope to accomplish.

The entire idea that flying harms the open world experience is almost completely fabricated. Or rather, objectively speaking, the amount of harm it does when looked at relative to other factors present in the game, is so small as to be nearly insignificant.

[Lane]

This is a real thing; when you're dodging elves and demons and fighting them off, all the while trying to find these elusive hidden stairs that are WAY FAR AWAY from the given world quest (let alone taking the time to realize it's on the roof to begin with), it can easily take over 45 minutes.

Lots of people visit wowhead by then for directions, but those that are more exploratory minded could easily get stuck for an hour looking for these stairs. Suramar is a really annoying city, and a prime example of why we need flying mounts today.

Oh well, at least 7.2 is coming eventually. Maybe next expansion Blizzard will finally realize how bad their "add flying a year after launch" design is. Really though, it wouldn't be much of a problem if it were not for the fact that the worlds are designed to be extremely annoying to traverse in the first place. If the Broken Isles had terrain like Pandaria, there would be a lot fewer complaints I think. Making getting up a hill to reach the world quest right on your minimap turns into a massive 5-10 minute detour will never, ever be fun.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard keeps Suramar city a no-fly zone. I know exactly what you mean though. I did Suramar the first time on my DH, so I double-jumped/glided/Infernal Striked to anywhere I needed to go and even then it was often a pain in the ass because it's never clear exactly where objectives are. Suramar really needed a city-specific map like Thunder Totem has (and doesn't need :P). I've recently started doing the city quests on an alt without the DH mobility perks and it's horrendous trying to traverse it conventionally.