Nazis were right wing, not left

[Cheerbleeder]

Why does MMO-Champion always ends up talking about Republicans and Democrats?
This discussion is about Nazis, not Trump or Hillary.
Also, a party which advocates more power to the government is not liberal. Stop using the word liberal for democrats.
Liberal is liberty, both personal AND economic.

As of the topic at hand, left and right are not about economy, it comes from the French Revolution.
The left is for republic and liberty, the right is for monarchy and tradition.

So unless you skew the meaning of Left and Right for the sake of your argument, Nazis are right wing since they were more conservative than progressist.

Where did I use the word Liberal? DERP

[draynay]

And you're wrong, very wrong.

You're exactly the kind of person a thread like this should be for, but its pointless due to your willful ignorance.

[Cheerbleeder]

Lincoln was a liberal.

Delete yourself from the internet. *My god are you cringy.


[Infracted]

[Natylyaz]

Where did I use the word Liberal? DERP

I was not talking about you specifically regarding the usage of the word liberal, I was talking generally.
And from my whole post, this is the main post you chose to take into account?

[Cheerbleeder]

You're exactly the kind of person a thread like this should be for, but its pointless due to your willful ignorance.

Yeah, you probably don't even know where the constitution comes from. MMO champ is full of heavliy vaccinated plebs these days!

[Macaquerie]

Yeah, you probably don't even know where the constitution comes from. MMO champ is full of heavliy vaccinated plebs these days!

As opposed to what, smallpox infested patricians?

[Orbitus]

Delete yourself from the internet. *My god are you cringy.

And yet Chelly is right. But what do you expect from Trumpettes?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, you probably don't even know where the constitution comes from. MMO champ is full of heavliy vaccinated plebs these days!

Let me guess? Anti-vaxxer? Because that doesn't help your argument one bit.

[Wyrt]

And yet Chelly is right. But what do you expect from Trumpettes?

Alternative facts?

[Orbitus]

Alternative facts?

I guess so. No wonder the average IQ of this country is in the fucking shitter. People making shit up like the Trumpettes.

[draynay]

The way I see Left and Right, and feel free to disagree, hopefully tastefully, is how it relates to the equality of man, with the Left favoring equality, and the Right favoring inequality as a "natural law". Socialism and Capitalism fall to the Left and Right by how they interact with this principle, they do not dictate what is Left or Right.

Likewise for government, the Left of the past would have been against big government because it oppressed them and threatened their personal liberties while the Left of today would favor big government that enacts social programs promoting equality.

The size of the government, or the nature of economic policy is not strictly Left or Right, but the motives for those policies are. Orwell certainly saw Stalin as being to the Right, despite his attachment to Communism.

When I look at Nazi Germany, I see a nation promoting their own master race, and labeling another race as inferior, I see a nation using its military to subjugate "inferior" nations to the end of creating a 1000 year reich with its "superior" members at the head. These motivations could not be more antithetical to the spirit of Leftist equality.

It isn't as simple as all that, but I can't see any rationale for classifying the Nazis as anything but Right. If you were to think they were Leftist because they have "socialist" in their name, then you are as gullible as the fools who voted them into power.

[Natylyaz]

The way I see Left and Right, and feel free to disagree, hopefully tastefully, is how it relates to the equality of man, with the Left favoring equality, and the Right favoring inequality as a "natural law". Socialism and Capitalism fall to the Left and Right by how they interact with this principle, they do not dictate what is Left or Right.

Likewise for government, the Left of the past would have been against big government because it oppressed them and threatened their personal liberties while the Left of today would favor big government that enacts social programs promoting equality.

The size of the government, or the nature of economic policy is not strictly Left or Right, but the motives for those policies are. Orwell certainly saw Stalin as being to the Right, despite his attachment to Communism.

When I look at Nazi Germany, I see a nation promoting their own master race, and labeling another race as inferior, I see a nation using its military to subjugate "inferior" nations to the end of creating a 1000 year reich with its "superior" members at the head. These motivations could not be more antithetical to the spirit of Leftist equality.

It isn't as simple as all that, but I can't see any rationale for classifying the Nazis as anything but Right. If you were to think they were Leftist because they have "socialist" in their name, then you are as gullible as the fools who voted them into power.

A good starting point about Left and Right is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-w...litics#History
The Left is about Republic and Liberty, while the Right is about Monarchy and Tradition.
Therefore, if you want to stick to the original meaning of the term, without distorting it for the sake of an argument about economy, you would say that Nazis are more right-wing since they were more conservative than progressist.

About Stalin, he was more in favour of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country, which is a state-based economy, and not a state-free economy as in actual communism. Moreover, he was definitely not in favour of Liberty, so it's not correct to say that Stalin is left-wing.

You also have a point about the fake Socialist in National-Socialist, every country and party which have Democratic or Popular in their name are all but democratic...

[Deleted]

Or you can look it up in the dictionary, history books or any number of reliable sources, I don't see how denying what has actually happened helps. It's in the past and does not reflect the views of most right wings today.

Please, I've already done my homework few decades ago when I was studying for my degree.

If this was a forum dedicated to history or literature I would maybe go a little deeper. The early XX sec up to the 30s is one of my favourite periods in history, with the flourishing of art and ideologies we carry on today, albeit... let's say the Cold War propaganda has created a pop culture version of Nazism and Fascism which doesn't necessarily suit what happened at the time.

Speaking of Wikipedia instead, the problem is that it is built on Crowd Sourcing, and that adds flaws which are too evident for pages with strong links to politics.

That's why you should take what you find on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, even more so for anything remotely connected to politics like this subject.

[Ryme]

I honestly don't see what this even matters, a bad idea is a bad idea despite it's political leanings.

[Natylyaz]

Please, I've already done my homework few decades ago when I was studying for my degree.

If this was a forum dedicated to history or literature I would maybe go a little deeper. The early XX sec up to the 30s is one of my favourite periods in history, with the flourishing of art and ideologies we carry on today, albeit... let's say the Cold War propaganda has created a pop culture version of Nazism and Fascism which doesn't necessarily suit what happened at the time.

Speaking of Wikipedia instead, the problem is that it is built on Crowd Sourcing, and that adds flaws which are too evident for pages with strong links to politics.

That's why you should take what you find on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, even more so for anything remotely connected to politics like this subject.

Wikipedia is still an encyclopedia which stipulates that sources must be quoted, which is done in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-w...litics#History
Sources used: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...age&q=&f=false

You can find other sources than Wikipedia to confirm the origin of the term Left and Right during the French Revolution, the Left being in favour of the Republic and Liberty, and the Right being in favour of the Monarchy and Tradition.
Economy has been added to these labels later, and not always properly (the French Left has been truly liberal for a long time, eg small Government, not the current skewed meaning of liberal in the USA).

So in this regard, Nazis are more conservative than progressists, hence it's correct to say they are more right-wing than left-wing.

[Mayhem]

Please, I've already done my homework few decades ago when I was studying for my degree.

If this was a forum dedicated to history or literature I would maybe go a little deeper. The early XX sec up to the 30s is one of my favourite periods in history, with the flourishing of art and ideologies we carry on today, albeit... let's say the Cold War propaganda has created a pop culture version of Nazism and Fascism which doesn't necessarily suit what happened at the time.

Speaking of Wikipedia instead, the problem is that it is built on Crowd Sourcing, and that adds flaws which are too evident for pages with strong links to politics.

That's why you should take what you find on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, even more so for anything remotely connected to politics like this subject.

With what part of the linked page do you disagree and why?

[Deleted]

Wikipedia is still an encyclopedia which stipulates that sources must be quoted, which is done in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-w...litics#History
Sources used: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...age&q=&f=false

You can find other sources than Wikipedia to confirm the origin of the term Left and Right during the French Revolution, the Left being in favour of the Republic and Liberty, and the Right being in favour of the Monarchy and Tradition.
Economy has been added to these labels later, and not always properly (the French Left has been truly liberal for a long time, eg small Government, not the current skewed meaning of liberal in the USA).

So in this regard, Nazis are more conservative than progressists, hence it's correct to say they are more right-wing than left-wing.

The problem is how you can explain those things to the Americans, which do not really have any Left or Right?

[Dadwen]

I honestly don't see what this even matters, a bad idea is a bad idea despite it's political leanings.

what fun is it if one side can't "out godwin" the other side and keep calling them Hitler /shrug truth is prob some where in the middle, some things they did were considered leftist and some rightist.

[Deleted]

Not sure they even had wings. Might be fake news.

[Vilendor]

"National Socialist German Workers' Party"

End of story....

[Moralgy]

"National Socialist German Workers' Party"

End of story....

Democratic People's Republic of Korea