What do you think of the current meta in Hearthstone?

[Pantalaimon]

The meta is in a weird place right now. On one hand almost every class is viable right now. I think the only completely dead class is Hunter. I just hit Rank 3 and this entire season I've seen ONE Hunter. One. Paladin is weak too but you can win some with Murloc Paladin(its clearly 2nd worst though). But beyond that, you can win with every other class.

On the other hand though, aggro and curve decks are still way too powerful. It feels like 90% of games are decided by turn 3 and who can curve out better or get early board. If a pirate warrior coins out two 1 drops turn 1 they essentially have three minions AND a weapon on the board turn 1 and the game is basically over right there.

You can't really avoid making curve decks though. If you have an average or even good card that costs one more or one less mana than another average to good card for the same hero then it is going in the deck. If you then get those cards in your mulligan or randomly have them generated on your draw then it becomes a "curve deck". Every deck type has this, from aggro to midrange, to control.

You can't not have decks play on curve so long as you have a mana system, as well as giving every class a card to play with all or most mana costs.

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No they don't. I am a fan of LotR LCG, the Star Wars LCG and the brand new Akham Horror LCG and I never copied a deck on the web as such.Infracted - Trolling

Because you choosing not to netdeck in those games means that most of those players don't do it? lol ok...

[NED funded]

If you dont have reno mage then be prepared to be royally fucked. Also why I dont trust tempostorm it scares me that pirate warrior became top meta pick, ships cannon rng damage is very frustrating to play against.

[BenBos]

Because you choosing not to netdeck in those games means that most of those players don't do it? lol ok...

Wrong assumption again. Because both Lord of the Ring LCG and Arkham Horror LCG are ... co op games, so you would only cheat on yourselves if you would do netdecking

And the Star Wars LCG has an almost perfected deck construction since you can only choose ... 10 sets of 6 auto grouped cards, which means the cards all relate to the THEME you choose to play with...

So again, it is no surprise these REAL modern day card games are designed by extremely talented boardgamers like Eric Lang.

And your reaction shows that present day HS players have NO clue about these other LCG's on the paper market.

As such these games - even in competitive play like the SW LCG - have a much more stable ranked play and not that ridiculous randomised surrogate HS stands for.

You know this is not even trolling: you can see EXACTLY where the design of HS is subpar to these other C(L)CG's. At least these games are consistent and so quite frankly MUCH more enjoyable.


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Ask yourselves ONE thing: how long do you think you would play HS when you just started with a single set of cards right now ?

I will answer it for your: after quitting the tutorial probably 5 or 6 duels and after that you will leave in disgust.

While the basic boxes of the above games are constantly reprinted and attract NEW players who actually ... have FUN with their new game.


Got that? Now continue the endless discussion how this HS is a "good, fun" game.

Simple: it is not, not by a LONG shot these days.

A decade ago Blizzard build up a real fanbase around a really great WOW. These last 4 years, they destroyed every credibility in my book. Starting with D3 "revised" and HS after a first promising year

And since the departure of a Rob Pardo it is really going down on "fun".

[Nikkaszal]

Wrong assumption again. Because both Lord of the Ring LCG and Arkham Horror LCG are ... co op games, so you would only cheat on yourselves if you would do netdecking

And the Star Wars LCG has an almost perfected deck construction since you can only choose ... 10 sets of 6 auto grouped cards, which means the cards all relate to the THEME you choose to play with...

So again, it is no surprise these REAL modern day card games are designed by extremely talented boardgamers like Eric Lang.

And your reaction shows that present day HS players have NO clue about these other LCG's on the paper market.

As such these games - even in competitive play like the SW LCG - have a much more stable ranked play and not that ridiculous randomised surrogate HS stands for.

You know this is not even trolling: you can see EXACTLY where the design of HS is subpar to these other C(L)CG's. At least these games are consistent and so quite frankly MUCH more enjoyable.


---
Ask yourselves ONE thing: how long do you think you would play HS when you just started with a single set of cards right now ?

I will answer it for your: after quitting the tutorial probably 5 or 6 duels and after that you will leave in disgust.

While the basic boxes of the above games are constantly reprinted and attract NEW players who actually ... have FUN with their new game.


Got that? Now continue the endless discussion how this HS is a "good, fun" game.

Simple: it is not, not by a LONG shot these days.

A decade ago Blizzard build up a real fanbase around a really great WOW. These last 4 years, they destroyed every credibility in my book. Starting with D3 "revised" and HS after a first promising year

And since the departure of a Rob Pardo it is really going down on "fun".

And yet here you are, still haunting these boards and hoping against hope that maybe... just maybe... someone may care about whatever garbage essay you've cooked up this time...

[Pantalaimon]

Ask yourselves ONE thing: how long do you think you would play HS when you just started with a single set of cards right now ?

I will answer it for your: after quitting the tutorial probably 5 or 6 duels and after that you will leave in disgust.

While the basic boxes of the above games are constantly reprinted and attract NEW players who actually ... have FUN with their new game.


Got that? Now continue the endless discussion how this HS is a "good, fun" game.

You know an argument is poor when you feel the need to answer for other people, and attempt to tell them what they feel

In the end, you're the one wasting time posting on a forum of a game that you clearly despise currently. Odd behavior if you ask me.

[FobManX]

You can't really avoid making curve decks though. If you have an average or even good card that costs one more or one less mana than another average to good card for the same hero then it is going in the deck. If you then get those cards in your mulligan or randomly have them generated on your draw then it becomes a "curve deck". Every deck type has this, from aggro to midrange, to control.

Curve decks are decks that basically rely on having optimal plays and cards to play turns 1, 2, 3 etc. Most control decks aren't really curve decks. Reno Lock isn't. Reno Mage isn't. In the old days decks like Freeze Mage and Hand Locks weren't either.

The problems in Hearthstone right now are two fold:

1. Early game minions are way more efficient than late game when you factor in damage/hp per mana cost.

2. To emphasize point #1, player HP is still too low. Cards get stronger and stronger but we're still at 30 HP. One 3/2 minion that hits your face once on turn 2 or 3 deals 10% of your HP.

Because of these points, the incentives to play more strategic, skill based late game control decks is gone. Just play Pirate Warrior and steamroll through your opponent in 3 turns hoping and praying he doesn't draw all the hard counters(%s say they won't most of the time).

Even Kolento yesterday was raging about how absurd it is how strong decks like Pirate Warrior are considering how skill-less they are to play.

[Pantalaimon]

Curve decks are decks that basically rely on having optimal plays and cards to play turns 1, 2, 3 etc. Most control decks aren't really curve decks. Reno Lock isn't. Reno Mage isn't. In the old days decks like Freeze Mage and Hand Locks weren't either.

The problems in Hearthstone right now are two fold:

1. Early game minions are way more efficient than late game when you factor in damage/hp per mana cost.

2. To emphasize point #1, player HP is still too low. Cards get stronger and stronger but we're still at 30 HP. One 3/2 minion that hits your face once on turn 2 or 3 deals 10% of your HP.

Because of these points, the incentives to play more strategic, skill based late game control decks is gone. Just play Pirate Warrior and steamroll through your opponent in 3 turns hoping and praying he doesn't draw all the hard counters(%s say they won't most of the time).

Even Kolento yesterday was raging about how absurd it is how strong decks like Pirate Warrior are considering how skill-less they are to play.

Not all 'curve decks' are aggro decks that kill you quickly though. There are so many cards available to each class that it is extremely easy and commonplace for a class to be able to have something to play for many (sometimes) all of their turns clear up to turn 10, unless you or your opponent draw terribly. I think too many players make the incorrect assumption that if a deck actually has decent cards for their class on curve that the deck is skill-less like the aggro archtype. Look at many midrange decks. They will often be able to play on curve to which the opponent may respond "That deck is simply an unskilled deck." I would then ask if a non aggro deck simply drawing well and playing minions to maintain board control is unskilled. If anything that is just a combination of luck as well as skill (or a basic understanding that certain decks need board control to win) playing out as "Curvestone" during a given game.

On the other hand, even when a deck has something to play on curve they may be better off using their mana inefficiently anyway. Though certainly not 'tier one decks', you won't really be seeing decks such as Evolve Shaman and most heavily dedicated combo decks playing on curve every turn. Some decks will want or need to sit on cards for win conditions, removal, or counter tempo plays depending on the match-up.

To the problem points you mentioned for the game I agree to an extent, but aggro needs to have more control over the early game than the other archtypes or they have little chance of winning. Sure, I think it could use more balancing, but if aggro never had a good one drop then the archtype would be completely unviable. If Blizzard added more powerful battlecry healing minions with decent stats for 1-4 mana then the 30 HP restriction wouldn't be nearly as bad. If every class had perhaps 1 class card and one neutral card, or more, for some of their plays between turns 1-4 that was akin to healbot or better then the aggro player running out of steam would be much more likely, thus not needing an HP increase. Extending player health isn't the only option.

[jamesbond11]

man.......i hate this current meta, once people know that 1 deck is op then everyone starts playing it, makes the game soo boring

[Pantalaimon]

man.......i hate this current meta, once people know that 1 deck is op then everyone starts playing it, makes the game soo boring

How is this different from any other meta so far?

[Blueobelisk]

Just finished climbing for the season, as Midrange Shaman. Hit rank 10 starting from rank 18. Went 73% win rate. Should have been better since those are the scrub ranks. Full stats here.

But the important thing is...



Why the fuck am I running into so many Shamans and Mages?

(Lol at my deficit against Mages and Locks. Too many individual/board clears, especially with Kazakus AND Reno. I don't think my Midrange Shaman would ever be able to beat them if they play well. Someone give me the cards for a good deck. I wanna be a RenoLock :///.)

Where are all the Dragon[Reno] Priests and Jade Druids? I guess they all climbed to the higher ranks?

[Deleted]

Where are all the Dragon[Reno] Priests and Jade Druids? I guess they all climbed to the higher ranks?

The priests are around but I think the jade druids have pretty much been forced out by the fast meta.

[Mahourai]

The reason you're not running into a lot of Reno Priest and Jade Druid is probably because those decks suck.

Druid just sucks all around and Dragon Priest is typically not played in singleton.

[Deleted]

Dragon Priest just doesn't have strong matchups. It loses against Pirate Warrior/Miracle Rogue/Aggro Shaman/Reno Lock and Reno Mage(unless you have a good pull from operatives)...so whats the point?

Jade Druid could literally double its winrate if you could ban Shaman/Pirate Warrior/Miracle Rogue opponents.

[Mormolyce]

(a) Fix pirate warrior for God's sake.

(b) Grow a pair and make some serious changes to the game so that every season doesn't star a new ridiculous aggro deck because of the way 1 and 2 mana cards are designed.

[NED funded]

(a) Fix pirate warrior for God's sake.

(b) Grow a pair and make some serious changes to the game so that every season doesn't star a new ridiculous aggro deck because of the way 1 and 2 mana cards are designed.

I mostly find pirate warrior annoying, but it's still pretty much manageable. At turn 4 if they are not utterly destroying you, you won the game. Aggro Shaman on the other hand, even if you beat the aggresive early game, it can still beat you. Of course, unless you draw Reno in which case you pretty much won the game.

[Kralljin]

Jade Druid could literally double its winrate if you could ban Shaman/Pirate Warrior/Miracle Rogue opponents.

Well, they might not print cards that give you a major boost against aggro without designing your whole deck around it, but sure they print extreme counters to control.

I mean you can't win against Jade Druid unless you manage to gain a major board presence, Jade Idol should really just shuffle 1 Mana : Summon a Jade Golem instead of another Jade Idol, even one Jade Idol means infinite and growing value.

[Mormolyce]

At turn 4 if they are not utterly destroying you, you won the game.

No deck should ever function like this. It means your win or loss is determined by draw which is not something you control.

[NED funded]

No deck should ever function like this. It means your win or loss is determined by draw which is not something you control.

This has been true, since face hunter was a thing.

[Mormolyce]

This has been true, since face hunter was a thing.

Exactly, they've never fixed it.

And until they address the root causes, we'll get new versions of face ____ every expansion or so.

[Mahourai]

"Why is aggro so good every expansion?" has such an obvious answer that it's kind of baffling people don't arrive at it immediately.

I mean, the question has a false premise - aggro hasn't been "ridiculous" every season - but the basic question of "why is aggro good" is simple - because it's supposed to be. It's not a mistake that fast, aggressive decks are powerful and popular. It's intended both by the design of the game in general and the principles by which new cards are printed.