[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Caruktna]

A guide is ment to be follow up to the point it can offer, you should also need to have some criteria and see which playstyle is better suited for you.

boss guides depends on particular bosses mechanics, guild strategies, difficulty, etc. If blizz decides to change X mechanic, you should rethink using a guide having that in mind. Same case with PTR mythic and live. Guide will tell you about the general aspect of PTR, but it could have change anytime... Was it usefull? yes, for a starter, then it will depend on how the guild will aproach the fight and deal with some mechanics.

So for someone who hasnt done PTR and its aproaching the mythic encounter for the first time, it is usefull. Now, it can change, or it wont. It can have a different strat, but anyway it gives you a tool for having that first contact, until it all gets more "mainstreamed". Either way, it is a great contribution, and people should follow it as any other informative source, under the criteria of what you decide to do with it and which other sources you decide to follow.

tl;dr : memespec all fights

[MV Kaa]

Sure, go memespec for all fights, Im sure your RL will enjoy you padding

[huth]

Yeah, it affects the next spell, that's my point. Your 2nd moonfire will be 5% more than your first, and your third will be 5% more than whatever your second was (or possibly 10% more than the first).

Er, no. That's exactly what wouldn't happen, since you'd lose the buff every time you cast Moonfire and then get a new one.

"Next" means only the next cast, not all following casts.

[Myztikrice]

Im not whining. You guys wont let it go and keep telling me how toxic i am, which is kinda ironic

You should look up the word ironic. And whining.

[MV Kaa]

You should look up the word ironic. And whining.

ANd here we go, dont wanna drop it do you?

[Slippykins]

I think we need to drop the hostility and focus on theorycrafting guys. It's ridiculous that good threads continue to get derailed. Whether or not you're correct is irrelevant -- these are the sorts of arguments you duke out in PMs.

I'm not a mod for the forum anymore, but I would have already given out warnings.

[Kyanion]

I think we need to drop the hostility and focus on theorycrafting guys. It's ridiculous that good threads continue to get derailed. Whether or not you're correct is irrelevant -- these are the sorts of arguments you duke out in PMs.

I'm not a mod for the forum anymore, but I would have already given out warnings.

I mean there is a common theme that tends to happen in most of the good threads getting derailed.

[Slippykins]

I mean there is a common theme that tends to happen in most of the good threads getting derailed.

Both sides need to drop it and just report posts that are inflammatory. Openly responding just incites more argumentation.

[Cyous]

Here's a tip: Experiment with multiple builds. (As I've been telling this community for the past fucking year.)

Starfall still does boss damage. AOE Build is extremely forgiving (when things aren't buggy, like Stellar Drift's Casting While Moving mechanic.) In which case, you fill the raid's needs weighed against your own. If "Volcanic affix" was an adequate way to describe the amount of movement on an encounter, then Stellar Drift would shit on Nature's Balance and the entire turret playstyle you casuals cried about being too weak for the entirety of 7.0.x in all phases on the game. Now that you've actually played with a different build for the first time in 4 months, you're starting to learn that sticking to a single talent build is a stupid idea meant for a stupid player.

In short: Play the game, make your own assessment. 99.999% of the guide readers just want an answer to "What talent do I use?" They don't need the "right" answer, they want a decent answer. (If your a hardcore player reading a guide for usable information...Lol.) If you're one of players who don't need a guide, you can criticize the words. Just remember you don't have any more information on the subject of "Mythic Encounters" at this time.

PS: "You're wrong. Why? Because you just are." Arguably makes you look as stupid as all the "theorycrafters" who said, "These 7.1.5 buffs are garbage."


Enjoy the race.

[MV Kaa]

"99.999% of the guide readers just want an answer to "What talent do I use?" They don't need the "right" answer," What? People dont need the right answer when asking a question? Also we said to drop it, yet you bring up it like a child. Just let it go. Jesus christ

[Cyous]

"99.999% of the guide readers just want an answer to "What talent do I use?" They don't need the "right" answer," What? People dont need the right answer when asking a question? Also we said to drop it, yet you bring up it like a child. Just let it go. Jesus christ

Boo fuckity hoo. One day you'll learn that this game has good answers and bad answers but never an absolute answer -- "But what about in this situation?". Guides are there to steer you clear of bad answers, like taking Starlord when you cast Starfall almost exclusively. You could probably pull off ED+Starlord/SOTF/SD if the fight had a healthy mix of Single Target and AOE/Cleave.

Enjoy the race.

[MV Kaa]

Not sure why you are being so immature about it. You admit that the guide was wrong so whats there to talk about? Just drop it bro.

[Cyous]

Not sure why you are being so immature about it. You admit that the guide was wrong so whats there to talk about? Just drop it bro.

::

Ill think twice before writing a post when the "experts" think twice before making a guide. It will benefit everyone

Because when you post garbage, I'll treat you like garbage. You should think twice before acting like a stuck up cunt. Write your own guide and see how much work it is; it takes A LOT of effort and discussion just to even have a good starting point. God forbid you try to help the community. When do you plan on contributing something meaningful? Or are you just another leech? There's never a one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to guides. "Go AOE Build here" -- Okay but what if we're struggling on boss damage instead of AOE damage? Then go Single-Target, right? Well, I guess the "right answer" was a bit more complex than expected, guide must be shit then.

Enjoy the race.

[MV Kaa]

Not sure why you feel the need to insult me. How am I not helping the community when Im telling them the right talent choice? How are you helping people when you tell them to go a spec that will get them sat on progression? Just DROP it. Like is this really what happens when you tell someone they are wrong? They go full rage mode of throwing out insults.

[Kyanion]

Not sure why you feel the need to insult me. How am I not helping the community when Im telling them the right talent choice? How are you helping people when you tell them to go a spec that will get them sat on progression? Just DROP it. Like is this really what happens when you tell someone they are wrong? They go full rage mode of throwing out insults.

While I don't agree with how Cyous addressed it, he makes a point that is worth talking over. Many times in this thread and others you have caused some issues. While what you are saying might be correct or incorrect that part does not matter. What DOES matter is the delivery in how you say things.

[Polarthief]

Sure, go memespec for all fights, Im sure your RL will enjoy you padding

Just want to bring up this point as someone who exclusively plays Memekin on NH atm: I don't see how actively AoEing mobs that need to die is "padding". Are you saying doing my role of AoEing scorpions is "padding"? Is doing Starfall's cleave on 2-3 targets (e.g., Botanist) considered Padding? Last Phase Star Augur, AoEing the small adds, the big add, and the boss all together, is that "padding"?

I think you need to redefine your definition of that word because you're not using it correctly. Padding would be using Starfall on Phase 3 Xavius, pulling more scorpions on Skorpyron (for the sake of padding), or similar instances.

[Matchu]

Er, no. That's exactly what wouldn't happen, since you'd lose the buff every time you cast Moonfire and then get a new one.

"Next" means only the next cast, not all following casts.

No? Yes? I'm not even sure what you mean at this point. You'd gain a buff called "Moonfire Damage", then "Moonfire Damage X2", then "Moonfire Damage X3", buff relates to your damage, it stacks up as you cast. It's not a new concept, plenty of things in the game work like this, like Stellar Empowerment from Starsurges.

[huth]

The point is that you lose the buff when you cast Moonfire, because it only affects the next spell, not all of them. So it wouldn't stack from repeatedly casting Moonfire, you'd just get new 5% buffs every time.

I.e. /cast Moonfire > buff gets consumed and increases damage by x > Trait gets triggered and you get a new buff stack.

[Cyous]

The point is that you lose the buff when you cast Moonfire, because it only affects the next spell, not all of them. So it wouldn't stack from repeatedly casting Moonfire, you'd just get new 5% buffs every time.

I.e. /cast Moonfire > buff gets consumed and increases damage by x > Trait gets triggered and you get a new buff stack.

Wording aside, are you really sure that's the intended mechanic? It's fair to say, if it couldn't stack, it would be a special kind of garbage.

Anywho, I've done some estimates. (Copied from discord)

Wax and Wane:
Wowhead spell data shows 5% per stack, max 5 stacks, with a 30sec duration.

In which case, after 5 stacks, we can expect direct damage of Moonfire hitting for 137.5% SP (up from 110%). Given you cast or refresh Moonfire once every 20sec, will get max stacks after 80sec. (gaining 68.75% SP over 80sec. 82.5% every 60sec thereafter.)

So, that value is worse than/equal to Moonfire's direct damage dealing an extra critical strike over 2min...a single crit or non-crit negates it.

[Matchu]

The point is that you lose the buff when you cast Moonfire, because it only affects the next spell, not all of them.

I mean you do technically lose the buff, but it's replaced by another one. Cast Moonfire -> Damage Target -> Gain Moonfire buff + stack. If you want to look at an existing ability, look at the fire mage passive 'enhanced pyrotechnics'. Every time you cast Fireball and it doesn't crit, you get a 10% increased chance to crit on it, which stacks. You don't lose that when you cast your next fireball, and then regain a base 10%, it instead stacks, going 10 -> 20 -> 30 etc.

I'm struggling to understand why you're seriously suggesting Blizzard would implement a stacking ability that's impossible to stack.