7/10 Mythic Nighthold in less than a day...

[Malygaa]

I, for one, think they should balance mythic raids for the top 50 guilds in the world as well

Mythic should be very difficult, but it shouldn't be the way you seem to envision it. The game isn't Vanilla anymore, where what made bosses take 50 years to die were cockblocks of other things, least of all because the boss was really all that difficult.

[Glorious Leader]

Ah, good!
I think their biggest mistake in Legion, is all the gear the top raiders (and a lot of others) gets from spamming m+, outgearing content before it comes out. They should have added a cap on how many times you can do each m+ dungeon, or a cap on how many m+ you can do every week. Or perhaps just make it so you only get gear the first time you clear one m+ dungeon (bye bye MoS spam).

This is the absolute last thing that needa to be done. Stop balancing the experience of other people cause some no lifers abuse it.

[Teebu]

Mythic race would last a longer if the fights weren't tested on the PTR and all the info about the fights wasn't out way before they are actually available.

Part of the reason it would last longer is because no good player would be left. DnT made a notorious rant at Blizzard in AQ complaining about being beta testers for their untested content. I can't see many players willingly going back to that again.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

Honestly, if the best players in the world, with basically full heroic gear and tier required to the next difficulty, after having tested the bosses on Beta and Ptr, in with the amount of hours they dedicate to it can't clear 9/10 with relative ease, then the bosses are overtuned.
Gul'dan can last much more, since we "dont know" how the mythic encounter will be like, therefor new strategies may come up, class choices and duties, etc..
But with the massive information availble nowaday about the bosses, overtuning them might not be a bad idea.

[Traveler Voltin]

Dont most of those kind of guilds tests fights on the ptr to get an edge?

[Deleted]

Ah, good!
I think their biggest mistake in Legion, is all the gear the top raiders (and a lot of others) gets from spamming m+, outgearing content before it comes out. They should have added a cap on how many times you can do each m+ dungeon, or a cap on how many m+ you can do every week. Or perhaps just make it so you only get gear the first time you clear one m+ dungeon (bye bye MoS spam).

Some of those top players are "professional" (they actually live on streaming/product deals etc) most of them play it like they were semi-pros (like a minor league sportsball pro, a job on the side, but aiming to leave it behind).

It would be quite silly to make design choices based on the needs of that group (which is just few of thousand people, at most).
But Blizzard has shown incredible willingness to spend devtime catering for these people before, so I guess it could be possible. It would still be a really stupid thing to do.

The M+ system is fine - it doesn't need caps.

[Demoncrash]

Dont most of those kind of guilds tests fights on the ptr to get an edge?

Its just one of the many things they do. They also run 3-5 split raids to make sure all their mains are geared and have their tier sets nearly completed. Effectively doing in one week what most guilds would take months to do. They also raid for 10-15+ hours during progression, buy a ton of consumables and keep throwing themselves at the boss till it goes down. Should also keep in mind that most of them have been playing with each other for years now, so they don't have too many issues with fight mechanics that require group co-ordination.

I can get that from the outside looking in, it may seem like 7/10 on day one is too easy but that's because they make it look easy. Now if even 50% of the raiding guilds were 7/10 on day 1 then yea, i'd say that there's something wrong here. But that's clearly not the case.

The only way i can see of challenging these guys is to make ALL of the bosses mechanics 1 shot the players on Mythic every time. You get hit by anything, you're dead. Tank swapped a second to late? dead. Dps/heals hit by aoe? dead. Of course, doing something like this would mean everyone outside the top 50 guilds can pretty much forget about raiding Mythic and i highly doubt Blizz i going to create an entire Tier for 1% of the playerbase.

[lockybalboa]

Blizzard made the content for the masses, not just catered to the hardcore raiders, they wouldn't be worried about how fast content is being cleared by the 0.5%

[Sime]

If you tune a raid so that the top 10 guilds need a month to kill the last boss (and 2 weeks to get 5/10) the rest of the world will never kill them (on the highest difficulty). Do you want THAT kind of raiding?

I agree with this, one of the nice things with vanilla was that everyone could get there if they just worked for it, twin emps in aq40 was all about having good warlock tanks and tanks, 4-6 players made or broke the fight, enrage timers did matter back then but were often fine as long as 2-4 dps didnt die to early.
Raids were tested and fixxed by blizz employee's, and at release noone knew anything about them. now they make more money doing half finished products and having us go in and check all the errors. + allowing everyone to see the content before its live... Removing the whole factor of entering a instance and looking up and around going "WOW shit this place is cool"
Edit: also there are no longer that part where you sit down with the guild talking tactics, cause everything is already sorted out with videos on youtube, sorta like watching a walkthrough of a game before even sitting down to play it..... yay fun.

[Sansnom]

I don't get why people care who clears a raid dungeon first. People who are invested in this sort of shit need to find something better to do with their time. Go volunteer or something.

I think there was some prestige in the past. It is not too unlike supporting a sport team. I never did follow the world first race.

However, I did like the DS Charity event a few years back. I found that to be more interesting.

[Deleted]

Why do you care if you are not racing in top 5 yourself? My appologies if you do.

He doesn't.
the only thing he does race in the top 5 for is moaning about WOW on the forums.

[Demithio]

"We've 'won' at Nighthold... Whats next Blizzard???"

Unfortunately Blizzard has created their own nightmare.

[DesertDog]

Want people to not steam roll stuff? Do what we had to do in vanilla, no PTR testing of raids, no dungeon journal, or at least hide all mythic mechanics.

Racing hasn't been worth while in a very long time.

[Deleted]

The best 0,1% guilds wont even get 6/10 until... march i think.
NH mythic is NOT too easy. If you have a outstanding worldwide #1 guild with super intelligent and experinced/equiped player they HAVE to clear it week 1. IF not blizzard tuned the bosses so hard that they cant beaten, Serenity is playing mostly perfecly without mistakes!

Only way to have such a race is a mythic+++ mode with 10% more hp and damaging bosses without better loot.

Blizz cant and shouldnt balance a raid for 10 top guilds.

- - - Updated - - -

Want people to not steam roll stuff? Do what we had to do in vanilla, no PTR testing of raids, no dungeon journal, or at least hide all mythic mechanics.

Racing hasn't been worth while in a very long time.

This argument is BS sorry, classic/vanilla we hadnt realy professional guilds. If you would release vanilla these days with the same raid experiencied player they would beat anything in week one!!

[katerra]

Blizzard to hire a proficient in house testing team and stop allowing open testing. Buggier content I'm sure but the mysticism is already gone after testing and I found it extremely easier for my guilds on live when tested on the PTR as opposed to not.

[Banard]

... So what can be done?

The best guild in the race at the moment, <Serenity> EU, are at 7/10 in the Nighthold and we've not yet wrapped up the first day; my suspicion is that probably only Gul'dan will survive the reset, and even that might not happen given the pace at which bosses are falling over (and split-runs will be completed).

I'm not arguing the game is too easy.

I'm not saying the top guilds are doing too well.

I'm not even whinging about how quickly the best guilds in the world are clearing content I'll never look at.

What I'm suggesting is that, just maybe, the top players have mastered whatever PvE can throw at them and perhaps a review is needed.

So, here's the question:

Is the race really even worth it any more?

I won't lie, this is the least interested I've ever been in the race to world first, and I've been tracking it since mid-Wrath. Even the community seems generally disinterested, with MMO-C not having their usual WoW Progress page linked to the first post. The typical guilds are all there, with <Method> likely to be the first to round the place out, and I'll probably wake up tomorrow to see a guild or two moving up a couple more notches on the progression bed post.

What's next?

Blizzard put every effort into making the race exciting for top players, and they're wrapping up these instances in record times with nobody to seemingly care. Whether it's the fact that players are better than ever now, the access to PTR/beta, or random gear inflation and legendaries making bosses beatable before their intended time, "the race" seems to be dying a death before anyone even knew it was happening.

Is it now time to accept that chasing the dragon of difficulty fetishists has flunked, and that Mythic is really just an unnecessary exercise in vanity?

Or is there something else Blizzard can do to make their progression players excited?

Answers on a postcard.

I like how these top guild put in basically two weeks of raid time in one day. There schedule the first week basically equates to a month or two of raiding for me and i play this game a shit load.

record time? not sure i'll call it record time considering the amount of hours they put in ...the first day alone they put in 12-14 hours....that's fucked up.

Maybe they should add a timer to mythic raids....a wipe counter per boss...something to slow down the race.....

Look at these top guilds? Are they top? there are some amazing players in the 400-500 even 1000 rank guilds...these guild just dont allocate anywhere close to that amount of time.

Imagine if there was a timer of 9 hours....so you only had 9 hours per week to do the mythic raid lock out....now dont think about how they will do it or the flaws (god there will be a lot) but just imagine...

all guilds have 9 hours per week to raid mythic difficulty...that sets the "rules" the same for every one. What would the race look like then? Would it be more interesting? Would it be more competitive? Would more guild be in the race?

[Deleted]

I like how these top guild put in basically two weeks of raid time in one day. There schedule the first week basically equates to a month or two of raiding for me and i play this game a shit load.

record time? not sure i'll call it record time considering the amount of hours they put in ...the first day alone they put in 12-14 hours....that's fucked up.

Maybe they should add a timer to mythic raids....a wipe counter per boss...something to slow down the race.....

Look at these top guilds? Are they top? there are some amazing players in the 400-500 even 1000 rank guilds...these guild just dont allocate anywhere close to that amount of time.

Imagine if there was a timer of 9 hours....so you only had 9 hours per week to do the mythic raid lock out....now dont think about how they will do it or the flaws (god there will be a lot) but just imagine...

all guilds have 9 hours per week to raid mythic difficulty...that sets the "rules" the same for every one. What would the race look like then? Would it be more interesting? Would it be more competitive? Would more guild be in the race?

Yeah cause algalon/limited attempts weren't fucking retarded

[Anize]

I like how these top guild put in basically two weeks of raid time in one day. There schedule the first week basically equates to a month or two of raiding for me and i play this game a shit load.

record time? not sure i'll call it record time considering the amount of hours they put in ...the first day alone they put in 12-14 hours....that's fucked up.

Maybe they should add a timer to mythic raids....a wipe counter per boss...something to slow down the race.....

Look at these top guilds? Are they top? there are some amazing players in the 400-500 even 1000 rank guilds...these guild just dont allocate anywhere close to that amount of time.

Imagine if there was a timer of 9 hours....so you only had 9 hours per week to do the mythic raid lock out....now dont think about how they will do it or the flaws (god there will be a lot) but just imagine...

all guilds have 9 hours per week to raid mythic difficulty...that sets the "rules" the same for every one. What would the race look like then? Would it be more interesting? Would it be more competitive? Would more guild be in the race?

Every system has its flaws. What you describe is actually the raid model we had in WotLK for some of the instances.

Algalon: 1 hour trytime (flawed by problems with dcs back then and server stability)
TotGC: limited boss trys
ICC: limited boss trys (wing endbosses + lk -> count increased every week, was 15 at the start and 50 tops end?)

Try Limit wont hinder you on investing time. I remember when we did try attempts with our 2nd raid back then to check out boss mechanics, so we had more attempts on the main raid. (Gearing 2nd and 3rd characters wasnt an real issue back then, since there was no ap/wf/tf shit implemented)

Blizzard cant bring up a good solution for this problem. Like mentioned above every system has its flaws and can be abused. If people are willing to invest that much time or/and have that time to spare im ok with that.

[Deleted]

It's not Blizzard's responsibility to limit how much people should play. Limited attempts were the worst idea they ever came up with for raids and I'm glad they were dropped. If people want to raid 16 hours a day for the first 2 weeks then they should be able to do that, it's their lives and their choice.

[Arcanines]

This really needs to happen. Agreed 100%

No thanks. Dont be a turd and balance shit around 0.000001%