Protection legion Discussion

[Arker42]

"excels in fights where you can block" is just a fancy way of saying that you can't block most things.

Can't disagree with that! The power of Shield Block is stronger than most Active Mitigations; however, it only works on blockable things. Most big attacks are not blockable, so it's swing in power goes from very strong to non-existent in an instant. You definitely feel the extra challenge in fights where the primary spike damage mechanic is physical and cannot be blocked. If it's magical, at least you can use Spell Reflection

[Deleted]

I don't have 4-set yet but it seems to me that Neltharion's fury would actually generate an insane amount of rage vs a lot of adds with constant crit blocks? Anyone who can confirm?

Mobs aren't hitting that fast. Instead of 66% of the hits generating 5 rage, you get 100% of the hits, but lose the rage from shieldslam+devastator+thunderclap - you also lose quite a bit of damage since the damage from the artifact is supbar at best. The only use for the ability as far as i see is to cheese some mechanics (hello cenarius) or close shieldblock-gaps if you run anger management.

[Deleted]

Prot Warrior in Mythic NH is Trash Tier. If you think its exaggerated please wait until you get to mythic Krosus and mythic Augur and you will pity your mates for having to carry you. Warrior also sucks at Gardener Telarn last phase which ultimately is the only phase which counts. (Solaris Last)

Krosus = 70% overall damage taken from the magic DoT Searing Brand and thats if your co-tank is merciful + 10% damage taken from unblockable slams if you ask for HoPs when possible. Only good thing a Warrior can do is reflecting the add pools doing ca 6 mil dmg per fight and receiving no damage from that ofc.

Augur is downright horrible as you have to be DPS oriented (Devastator) and you dont even get to use Revenge as you spam Slam+TC + IP and /pray until the fourth phase where your dmg is needed.
Iceburst does average 2,5 mil+ hits to me every 2 seconds and you can only cast so many reflects and demo shouts to mitigate leaving you in a 10-15s window without better mitigation each cycle - cannot cover that with IP at all. Only thing you can block in that fight is the comet you get 6x in p2. Nobody will let you do it in p3(fel) as it simply hurts too much. And this is with Kakushan gloves + Mannoroth bracers + Anger Management. In phase 1 the damage is also magic only and too high for a Warr.

But hey we have these cool set bonuses which are ofcourse completely useless in those two fights. Also our artifact can be used at Tichondrius adds YAY. But you will still get raped there without external CDs unlike other tank classes.

Why didnt Blizzard at least make more of those Boss abilities blockable (Krosus Slam FFS) or let Reflect do some damage or drop debuff stacks (like at Elisande) I cant understand.

To be fair first 3 bosses are NP as a Warrior (Reflect scorpion adds at 1st etc.) but those are easy. Spellblade is also quite enjoyable even solo soaking 2nd Annihilates.

[Lysozyme]

nearly everything you just said is a pile of abject nonsense

and if you aren't casting revenge on star augur you're terrible at the game, take vengeance and cast revenge, don't just use BV because "hey it's a dps talent"

honestly

[Deleted]

So you tell me you felt good while progressing those three mythic bosses with your Warrior and your vengeance? Because I certainly didn't. And not using revenge in p2 Augur while having BV to reduce CD on every CD we have by 6 seconds along with a full IP every minute does not seem like such a bad choice compared to doing damage you dont need in that phase.

[Arker42]

So you tell me you felt good while progressing those three mythic bosses with your Warrior and your vengeance? Because I certainly didn't. And not using revenge in p2 Augur while having BV to reduce CD on every CD we have by 6 seconds along with a full IP every minute does not seem like such a bad choice compared to doing damage you dont need in that phase.

Lyso's right dude. If you're suffering defensively and you do not take Vengeance/weave Revenge You're doing it wrong. Remember that, with Vengeance, Revenge feeds directly into Rage gen even without free procs as it increases the number of Shield Slams you can get off per minute.

Naturally, for Augur, you should be using Anger Management as it will net you numerous extra Demo Shouts and other big CDs. Indomitable can be taken; however, if you properly use Devastator and time your CD's well, you should do fine if not excel. Lysozyme and some others have provided an excellent guide instructing on the defensive use of Devastator you can check out earlier in this thread.

[Cylunaria]

Lyso's right dude. If you're suffering defensively and you do not take Vengeance/weave Revenge You're doing it wrong. Remember that, with Vengeance, Revenge feeds directly into Rage gen even without free procs as it increases the number of Shield Slams you can get off per minute.

Naturally, for Augur, you should be using Anger Management as it will net you numerous extra Demo Shouts and other big CDs. Indomitable can be taken; however, if you properly use Devastator and time your CD's well, you should do fine if not excel. Lysozyme and some others have provided an excellent guide instructing on the defensive use of Devastator you can check out earlier in this thread.

The guy is progressing on augur mythic. he doesnt need your devastator guide, he clearly grasps the intricacies of the class well enough. Protection warrior is serviceable yes. Is it good for those bosses? No. It's BRF all over again.

[Arker42]

The guy is progressing on augur mythic. he doesnt need your devastator guide, he clearly grasps the intricacies of the class well enough. Protection warrior is serviceable yes. Is it good for those bosses? No. It's HFC all over again.

Clearly he's missing something if he thinks there is nothing more he can do to improve survival. If you believe Warriors are truly inviable, by all means, bring it to the Devs attention - Just make sure you've considered all your options first to see if there's something you're missing.

Edit: As an added note, I think most top end raiding Warriors are aware of the unique issues we face when it comes to handling physical mechanics that cannot be blocked (e.g., Krosus Slam, Odyn's Spear, etc.). That's a very real issue worth discussing and directing Devs attention towards. Until then, we're gonna have to play to our strengths best we can.

[Cylunaria]

Clearly he's missing something if he thinks there is nothing more he can do to improve survival. If you believe Warriors are truly inviable, by all means, bring it to the Devs attention - Just make sure you've considered all your options first to see if there's something you're missing.

I didn't say they are unable to kill the fight. I'm pretty sure I made that clear. You are at an inherent disadvantage if you do choose to bring one, however. That is non-negotiable.

[Arker42]

I didn't say they are unable to kill the fight. I'm pretty sure I made that clear. You are at an inherent disadvantage if you do choose to bring one, however. That is non-negotiable.

And I completely empathize. You and Yograin bring up some very important points. I'm just aiming to provide some tips to help ride out the tide till (if) Blizzard takes action to address significant Warrior shortcomings.

[potis]

Its just comes down to "Why did i follow nostalgia and played my main when i should have gone bear when it was obvious how easy and OP they were and now i have to suffer to magical damage all over again"

[Lysozyme]

"while having BV to reduce CD on every CD we have by 6 seconds along with a full IP every minute"

Oh boy, a full IP every minute!

Dude you were not casting revenge, every single IP you cast up to one every 3 seconds could have had a revenge inside it, which is 30% of a shield slam, that's 20 rage - more with gloves, more during demo shout.

Not to mention the damage from revenge. You think the damage gain from BV is more than the damage loss from not casting revenge?

[Valech]

Its just comes down to "Why did i follow nostalgia and played my main when i should have gone bear when it was obvious how easy and OP they were and now i have to suffer to magical damage all over again"

Cause I enjoy the theme and playstyle of warriors more then of bears?

[vsb]

Anyone else have an issue with taking too much damage from Spellblade Aluriel? I have not issues with the first buff and obviously I take more damage after the first buff but once the second stack is applied I start taking crazy damage and that is being the off tank then! When annihilate gets applied to my tanking partner who is a paladin with slight better gear than me, he take way less damage than me. I am using my main GCD just before the second stack is applied, just barely living and then when it comes to the stack being applied to my tanking partner I die during that phase most of the time unless I use another GCD? We doing this on HC and I have tried using spell block everytime as well to see if it helps. I sadly don't have logs of the fight to be able to try and see where I can improve on it but I have linked my character in the mean time. How is everyone else handling her?

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twilights-hammer/Beirut/simple

I rotated between neltharion's fury and demo shout for every annihilate. Also be sure that your shield block is always up for annihilate if you're not using nelth's fury and your shield block is up before or after fury, when you're using it, because annihilate is 4 seconds and fury is 3 seconds. It really trivializes the fight. Try to get full rage bar before she annihilates and use IP when your HP drops below 70% (so healers can have some chances to help you).

I think that warrior is the best tank for this particular boss because of shield mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

I just encountered a Prot Warrior dealing 600k DPS on 3 - 5 Mobs by spamming Revenge on M+10. Is that normal? Isn't he risking his life by using up all rage on damage instead on Ignore Pain?

It's a balance between survivability and DPS. If his healer is fine with it, why not? If he's dying doing it, that's wrong. It's simple.

[deadmanfred]

"while having BV to reduce CD on every CD we have by 6 seconds along with a full IP every minute"

Oh boy, a full IP every minute!

Dude you were not casting revenge, every single IP you cast up to one every 3 seconds could have had a revenge inside it, which is 30% of a shield slam, that's 20 rage - more with gloves, more during demo shout.

Not to mention the damage from revenge. You think the damage gain from BV is more than the damage loss from not casting revenge?

Finally the argument that death knights have been having for years has come to warriors! Even on progression, is gearing for dps better?

Personaly I'm on the side that you gear for a bear minimum amount of survival needed for a fight, and after that you put everything you have into dps. So except for a few bosses we are very OP for mitigation in this raid. So much so the mitigation difference I'm seeing using vengeance is usually not NEEDED, so of course your going to go BV for the damage.

Let me further back up my opinion with logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Protection

The "top talents" for every single fight thus far is Booming Voice over Vengeance.

To answer your question "You think the damage gain from BV is more than the damage loss from not casting revenge?" Yes, clearly it is.

[Deleted]

"

Not to mention the damage from revenge. You think the damage gain from BV is more than the damage loss from not casting revenge?

With Vengeance my Revenge damage % is 14,5% at Augur. With BV the uptime of the buff is around 28% so a 7% overall damage increase . Speaking in DPS I went from 248k DPS with BV to 275k DPS with vengeance.

Survival feels the same (meaning shitty mind you) as the 2,3 mil frostbursts every 2,1s with my 5,3m total hp are no joy (2,3m Frostburst is average meaning when I have no CD to use I get 60% HP hits) and this situation happens every cycle I need to take the boss.

[Deleted]

I don't have 4-set yet but it seems to me that Neltharion's fury would actually generate an insane amount of rage vs a lot of adds with constant crit blocks? Anyone who can confirm?

Wasn't there a time when crit block had internal cooldown of 1,5s or something?

[Cylunaria]

Wasn't there a time when crit block had internal cooldown of 1,5s or something?

What?..... How does that kind of information even get created? It's blatantly false and never been a thing.

[Lysozyme]

@deadmanfred no that's moronic. Yes BV is the best talent for DPS, but you don't not cast revenge, you just do cast revenge and cast fewer ignore pains. If you are struggling with survivability, Vengeance is a far superior option, when using Devastator. Please fully read the discussion before wasting the effort it seems like you put in, next time.

[Valech]

@deadmanfred no that's moronic. Yes BV is the best talent for DPS, but you don't not cast revenge, you just do cast revenge and cast fewer ignore pains. If you are struggling with survivability, Vengeance is a far superior option, when using Devastator. Please fully read the discussion before wasting the effort it seems like you put in, next time.

Don´t waste your time, mate. We have a few very stubborn advocats of booming voice, who cannot differ between how a talent feels and how it performs.