resto worst healer atm?

[Deleted]

Confirmed. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...hps&dataset=95

At least we can duo-heal with a pally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXdbOcYv2U

[Guran]

Confirmed. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...hps&dataset=95

At least we can duo-heal with a pally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXdbOcYv2U

Number of Mythic parses:
3000 Resto Druid parses (100)
2805 Holy Paladin parses (93.5)
2627 Resto Shaman parses (87.6)

1883 total priest parses (62.8)
1511 Holy Priest parses (50.4)
982 Mistweaver parses (32.7)

372 Disc Priest parses (12.4)

Yeah, we're so bad, nobody is taking us along! Confirmed
</sarcasm>
Healers are not DPS, overall throughput is not the be-all end-all measurement of performance. If only for the simple reasons that damage reduction effects, such as from SLT are not included in logs, while they actually matter in a fight as well as healing peaks being relevant.

Of the 11297 healers logged, we are 23.25%, while the average for 5 classes should be 20%. The highest class is only at 26.56%, while the lowest on a wooping 8.69% (or 3.29% of you account for Disc seperately)
The highest amount of logs for a class is not even 20% above ours, while those beneath us are signifianctly lower.
If Resto Shaman was so bad, why aren't more guilds taking Priests or Monks above them to Mythic? Why are Paladins logging 50% MORE fights than Priests if they are logging less HPS than them? Could it be that they fill out a better niche than the other classes? And these are top level guilds with most of them having more than one spec/class geared, so you can't even argue that it's about AP/AK either.

Guilds are taking Resto Shams along and killing stuff, isn't that more important than an arbitrary healing metric? If anything, I'm more concerned as to why people are not bringing in Priests & Monks. Are they competing with a specific spec that's doing better? e.g. Are Druids eclipsing the raid blanket healing over them? Or are we the ones pushing out Monks that are spot-healing emergencies?

PS: If you look at Heroic parses for a more average raiding group, you actually see similar log distributions, but with all healers except Disc being in the same 500-520k range. So either we're NOT as good for progression as our Mastery would indicate ... or the top 5% Mythic logs are full of people who rarely make mistakes and thus never 'need' that extra Mastery boost, but bring us for other reasons.

[dadev]

If Resto Shaman was so bad, why aren't more guilds taking Priests or Monks above them to Mythic? Why are Paladins logging 50% MORE fights than Priests if they are logging less HPS than them? Could it be that they fill out a better niche than the other classes? And these are top level guilds with most of them having more than one spec/class geared, so you can't even argue that it's about AP/AK either.

Guilds are taking Resto Shams along and killing stuff, isn't that more important than an arbitrary healing metric? If anything, I'm more concerned as to why people are not bringing in Priests & Monks. Are they competing with a specific spec that's doing better? e.g. Are Druids eclipsing the raid blanket healing over them? Or are we the ones pushing out Monks that are spot-healing emergencies?

PS: If you look at Heroic parses for a more average raiding group, you actually see similar log distributions, but with all healers except Disc being in the same 500-520k range. So either we're NOT as good for progression as our Mastery would indicate ... or the top 5% Mythic logs are full of people who rarely make mistakes and thus never 'need' that extra Mastery boost, but bring us for other reasons.

Healing priests have low attendance for some reasons.
1. Shadow is still the best ranged dps spec, if a priest knows and likes to play all specs he'll likely prefer shadow.
2. There's little point in bringing hpriest and rdruid together. If you have the option then bring one of them. Refer to reason 1 for the more obvious choice. Not to say that the reverse is impossible though. And in fact, for heroic raiding it hardly matters.
3. Disc relies on druids for support. If the raid doesn't have innervates then disc playing to disc strengths will run oom quickly. And overall lets face it, disc is not a spec that most healers like to play either because of the involved complexity, dps mechanics, raid coordination, foresight or reliance on druids.

For world first race, reasons 2 & 3 don't really matter though because of reason 1 it works like this:
dps: shadow >>>>>> boomkin/ele/cat/enh
burst healing: disc > shaman >> druid ~ hpriest
sustain healing: druid~hpal~hpriest > shaman
So every disc you bring is essentially playing the wrong spec even though he's better than rshaman at what he does best. RShaman gets the spot on world first kills because he's the next best choice for burst healing and doesn't have an indispensable dps spec. Since burst healing is indispensable in its own right, so does resto shaman become by extension.
As for monks, I have no idea. But unless they're stupidly op no one wants to play them.

But when we consider heroic raiding, I don't think resto shamans have a real problem. It's true that their overall throughput is lower, but more than likely that's not the limiting factor for the raid's success and only shamans have a foolproof array of cds that just work (tm). That sounds like a fair trade as far as class mechanics go.

[Hashcrypt]

Logs are close to being absolutely worthless for healers. There's kid WAY too much variance to ever draw any sort of solid conclusions.

Please do not use logs to determine the effectiveness of healers.

Thanks.

[Volitar]

After clearing 2/3rd of nighthold mythic resto shaman is in a pretty weird place in terms of when you want to bring a resto shaman. All healers are overall pretty balanced output. If you all care about is raw healing numbers you can fill your raid of any possible combination of healers.

Right now I think on any 4+ healer fight you have 2 mandatory slots filled by one Holy Pala and one Resto druid. Resto shaman is not a "always bring one" spec that everyone wants to be. We need to compete for those remaining slots. It's really between Disc priest, another Rdruid, MW monk and Resto shaman for those 2 or 3 last spots. If your raid is cheesing disc priests (spam them with innervates and wisdom) they also have a almost guaranteed spot. For just consistent healing Rdruid or Mistweaver is way better than shaman. MW have really strong revival and with 2 min cd on tranq druids allow you to fit more big healing cds on crucial mechanics.

That means that the default comp does not really need or want a resto shaman. However Resto shaman fits the role of adjusting to the fight. With a huge toolkit to deal with almost any scary mechanic. There are a lot of fights where you need a resto shaman or you can't kill the boss with the standard strategy. On those fights you don't really care if the shaman is doing 2/3rd of the others healer hps, All they need to do is use a ability at a certain moment.


In Nighthold Resto shaman cheese strats is off the charts. Nobody has seen how the last 2 bosses play out but so far this is what we bring to each mythic fight.

Ancestral Protection Totem:
Tichondrius - required for rogue soak strat.
High Botanist Tel'arn - 1 extra battle res when sacrificing Call of the night in last phase
Star Augur Etraeus - Without the 10% extra health you might get one shot by witness the void.

Spirit link
Spellblade aluriel - For Arcane orbs placements.
Star Augur Etraeus - Witness the void

If the fight has no moments where spirit link can save the raid or cheese strat around ankh totem you pretty need to rely on the strength of the spec vs other healers

-Low movement

-Underhealing 2-3 healing we really shine. If it's a 5 heal fight and you are going 4 healers you really want a resto shaman in. In farm though you need to solo heal or 2 heal fights for resto to be amazing.

-High consistent damage Raid damage that comes over time instead of just 1 big hit.

- Longer bursts of healing, Maybe a last phase that last around 1 minute with intensive damage. 4 different cooldowns that can be chained and able to burn thru all your mana in under 2 min if needed.



So that's basically if a fight checks off a lot of those boxes Shaman is the best healer in the game and unbeatable. If you run into a more standard fight we are weak compared to the other healers.

So all of this kinda leaves us being a spec every mythic guild wants one of but only in if it fits the fight. It's not the best of states, especially for less skilled groups that doesn't utilize our toolkit properly or Groups that likes to play it safe with healers and add a extra healers for safety. Although I think this is still better than mistweavers/disc/holy, They got nothing but their healing really going for them. If they can't compete with healing that got nothing that makes them worth bringing. Your healing roster doesn't "need" any of them. Just fill the healing slots with any 1 or 2 of those classes and there wont be that huge a difference.

I would probably listen to this guy.

[Gunwolf]

Healers are not DPS, overall throughput is not the be-all end-all measurement of performance. If only for the simple reasons that damage reduction effects, such as from SLT are not included in logs, while they actually matter in a fight as well as healing peaks being relevant.

Yes exactly.... people who are clueless and too obsessed with meters try to use logs for healers the same way they do dps and it doesn't work like that. Healing is not always how much u heal, but who/when/where u heal. U don't need to top meters, if ur raid doesn't wipe then you have done ur job. Resto brings a variety of heals in its toolkit, plus plenty of utility, and totems like SLT to deal with certain mechanics or cloudburst totem to help deal with predictable incoming damage. And our mastery just works well when shit hits the fan.

If Resto Shaman was so bad, why aren't more guilds taking Priests or Monks above them to Mythic? Why are Paladins logging 50% MORE fights than Priests if they are logging less HPS than them? Could it be that they fill out a better niche than the other classes? And these are top level guilds with most of them having more than one spec/class geared, so you can't even argue that it's about AP/AK either.

Guilds are taking Resto Shams along and killing stuff, isn't that more important than an arbitrary healing metric? If anything, I'm more concerned as to why people are not bringing in Priests & Monks. Are they competing with a specific spec that's doing better? e.g. Are Druids eclipsing the raid blanket healing over them? Or are we the ones pushing out Monks that are spot-healing emergencies?

PS: If you look at Heroic parses for a more average raiding group, you actually see similar log distributions, but with all healers except Disc being in the same 500-520k range. So either we're NOT as good for progression as our Mastery would indicate ... or the top 5% Mythic logs are full of people who rarely make mistakes and thus never 'need' that extra Mastery boost, but bring us for other reasons.

For healer popularity it goes Rdruid>Hpally>Rshaman as top 3, and then the other healers. Lots of these mythic raids bring resto shaman so it must be a sign that we are doing well and desirable for top tier content.

I'm not sure why priests and monks are less popular.... monks in general don't have many people playing them so that I understand, but Priests are known to be good healers and well rounded, holy has the highest output of all healers in those logs... yet both holy+disc combined still don't get them into the top 3. I assume the synergy of the other healers makes them more well rounded then if one was replaced with a priest.... I don't think priest is bad or anything, just not as popular.

And yea, in either heroic or mythic the trend is the same with resto sham as third most popular healer so we are not in a bad spot at all. People complain about the mastery, but that is because of too much concern for meters... as another poster mentioned, you can always focus mastery for progression and crit for farm content, and our mastery is still good cause it helps when u need it the most which is preventing death and that is far more important then padding meters.

[Koor]

At least we can duo-heal with a pally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXdbOcYv2U

We don't have logs, but skada was open in this Method's two healing (holy pala+resto shaman) of mythic star augur, so we can see the total HPS at various points in the 9 min encounter.

One minute in, pala was on 550K and shaman 200K.
Four mins in, pala was 610K and shaman 433K.
At the end, pala finished 603K and shaman 644K.

To be able to surpass the pala in total HPS despite being behind during most of the encounter, the shaman burst HPS at the end must have been off the charts.

Large part of it is due to spirit link, which shows on skada and not warcraftlogs, but still we can see the shaman mastery in play when not masked by other healers being present in the raid. It's true that most resto shamans won't get to experience this, since not many will underheal to that extent, but the potential of the class is there.

[Radianshot]

One of the main reasons Resto Shaman doesn't do high hps is because mechanics nowadays make people disappear from 30% - 50% hp to 0 in 1 hit. Thus if we don't get our heal on time / time it right / have haste to respond, people disappear and we don't get our shining moment.
Blizzard could fix this, by increasing the amount of damage taken by people, but not in 1 large burst, maybe several sucessive bursts, while at the same time increasing max hp.
But ofc no, raids / dungeons / pvp all about the guy having to be at 100% to survive most things now. Its pretty rare that a player would stay below 70% hp in any encounter for long unless healers are terribly out of mana / drinking in a corner / undergeared. Even on tichondrius, where there is damage going out constantly, people eat a brand, and get healed back to full within 5s. Maybe you'd get a chain heal off (or two), but that's all your mastery is going to help you with, the DoT damage doesn't help you unless your team's healers can't cope with it, else they'd be 90 - 100% hp most of the time.

[Rorschachs]

Radianshot if what you said were true then Resto Shamans would shine in wod and cata as well, as the damage patterns were like what you described in those expansions and not bursty like in legion or mop. In both wod and cata, resto shamans became good at the last tier; because Blizzard just ignores Resto Shamans until the last tier for some reason. It's cool that Resto Shamans have all these niches, but shouldn't we also shine when the raid is stacked? Isn't that how Resto Shamans have worked since forever?

[Deleted]

i play shaman because it feels like an underdog. i want to be useful. shamans are incredible useful in most situations because of our diverse talent tree!

i dont care about meters they are meaningless for healers if you compare it with dps meters. its about effective healing, killing bosses and enjoy your class. Shamans are so much fun to heal with. you can pump out 2mil heals within seconds depending on the situation.

[avoidconfusion]

We are so bad that Serenity used one for the Mythic Guldan kill

[Deleted]

Yesterday on his stream Slootbag said, that in his opinion, Resto shamans are the strongest Mythic healers

[Hashcrypt]

Resto shamans are great at the most important thing a healer can do: Save lives.

Save for maybe the Holy Paladin, nobody can snatch a player from the jaws of death quicker, more efficiently or as reliably as a resto shaman.

Plus we have tons of utility and CD's.

Let the other heals pad meters and let resto save lives.

Win win.

[Tehterokkar]

Resto Shamans are the life savers, they have health boosts that can help survive one shot situations.

They have the most broken spell in the game(SLT), they have a lot of healing CDs(some bigger, some smaller) to cover multiple mechanics in a fight and their Mastery makes them insane for spot healing someone at low health.

[TeleriaX]

I'm not sure why priests and monks are less popular.... monks in general don't have many people playing them so that I understand, but Priests are known to be good healers and well rounded, holy has the highest output of all healers in those logs... yet both holy+disc combined still don't get them into the top 3. I assume the synergy of the other healers makes them more well rounded then if one was replaced with a priest.... I don't think priest is bad or anything, just not as popular.

My main Chars are my Mistweaver 890+ and HolyPriest at ~885, while i dont do mythic raiding i cant talk about that, but on Monk the reason is pretty obvious. In raid its incredibly "easy" yet boring to play. If you wanna get out the best numbers you use Renewing Mist (low mana cost, smart hot, incredible output on the long term) and Essence Font when 6+ Players are taking damage. That are basically the 2 skills you are going to use the most of the time. But that isnt the only reason. Monk is really Mana-Starving. Doesnt seem bad when you look at 75% or lower percentile, but as you climb higher Monks get lost. If you start at 10% percentile and go up slowly you will notice that Monks are the best HPS wise healers there, however when you reach the max Monks are falling behind drastically. There are people who love to say "you dont look at high parses because they arent real", in my opinion though the max parses show what healers are capable to when they are pushed to the limit. It isnt only for kills but for progress. You dont want to have a healer with you which basically have basically no raid utility, lowest output when it counts and incredible hard mana managment. The other reason is the terrible stat balance. In raid Crit/Versatile are the best stats for monk by far. Look at the Nighthold loot table and see how many Items have Crit and Versatile on it. There are only a handful in total that monks are able to wear. Furthermore the setbonus is completely bad for raids. It is good for 5 man Dungeons, but in raids you dont want to use vivify too much at all. Aaaaand you need a second armor set for 5 man dungeons. When Crit/Versatile are best for raids, Haste/Mastery with a bit of crit and versatile are best for 5 man dungeons. In the End those are all reasons why Monk isnt popular. They are doing ok at best, boring to play in raids and you will never be at the top under normal circumstances. Not HPS wise and not utility wise. So why should you play monk at all?

I dont get the whole issues for HolyPriest whatsoever. No raid utility, more fun to play than monks, not that hard mana starving, great numbers. This are the reasons i switched to HolyPriest (got a Holy Pala at around 875 too, but god i dont like the playstyle) and well, i got incredible legendaries for Priest (Prydaz, Cloak and Gloves) while my monk only got real crappy ones.

[Deleted]

But that isnt the only reason. Monk is really Mana-Starving. Doesnt seem bad when you look at 75% or lower percentile, but as you climb higher Monks get lost. If you start at 10% percentile and go up slowly you will notice that Monks are the best HPS wise healers there, however when you reach the max Monks are falling behind drastically.

...and well, i got incredible legendaries for Priest (Prydaz, Cloak and Gloves) while my monk only got real crappy ones.

Largely my impressions of playing monk too. Flexible and fun with good HPS but serious mana issues under pressure. Performs basically the same role as a holy priest but not as reliably. Also their legendaries are awkward or boring and some just outright useless.

Couple that with the fact that monk is the least popular class as a whole and thats why you don't see many.

In comparison, shamans are in a great place.

[Ajjax]

remember the days when people weren't obsessed with pure numbers, what mattered more was your utility to the raid. Shamans bring the next utility and yet all these kids still QQ. If you want a pure numbers greater go play a druid.

[mcbubble]

remember the days when people weren't obsessed with pure numbers, what mattered more was your utility to the raid. Shamans bring the next utility and yet all these kids still QQ. If you want a pure numbers greater go play a druid.

I don't understand posts like this. When someone is saying that Resto Shammies are falling behind in numbers, people say stop QQ'ing. This isn't addressing the issue. At what point do you think it becomes an issue? Right now we're ~10% lower than the top according to the median of top parses. What if we fall to 25% lower? Is it still a moot point because we still 'bring the utility' (which is just silly, because we don't necessarily bring that much more utility other than SLT, aka...Shaman Loving Thatraidspotbecausethetotemisop)

[ExuberRaptor]

If your other healers are good, you'll be behind as a shaman.
Basically our mastery does hardly anything, since the raid will on average be above 90% health.

This is especially true when fighting easy bosses and if your group isnt horrid. However Restoration Shamans are better at situational healing because of it.
High damage Raid bosses like Krosus and Aluriel Require players to spread from time to time, but also force them to stack the majority of the time. There is where your healing will succeed above all. Honestly though before 7.2 They may get something making them alot better, if the other classes dont end up making shamans fall behind again, due to their constant complaints. *Cough* hunters. c;

[jayheals]

This is especially true when fighting easy bosses and if your group isnt horrid. However Restoration Shamans are better at situational healing because of it.
High damage Raid bosses like Krosus and Aluriel Require players to spread from time to time, but also force them to stack the majority of the time. There is where your healing will succeed above all. Honestly though before 7.2 They may get something making them alot better, if the other classes dont end up making shamans fall behind again, due to their constant complaints. *Cough* hunters. c;

Our throughput is behind every other healer on krosus