I tested out castigator today and seriously. Its the same.

[mmowin]

I did around 540+k dps with it which is barely above mastery build. Is this normal or is anyone doing higher single target dps with the castigator / crit build? If so what are your stats like?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Why do half the threads here appear to be thinly veiled promotions for some people's youtube channel as of late?

Haven't tried it yet, too busy mastering BoS.

[bloodmoth13]

Why do half the threads here appear to be thinly veiled promotions for some people's youtube channel as of late?

Haven't tried it yet, too busy mastering BoS.

meh, as long as its relevant to wow i dont see the issue, producing wow related content and sharing it on a wow community site seems appropriate

[Maxweii]

It's overall lower ST slightly, which is compounded even more once you get 4 piece, Draught or bracers. In AoE/Cleave it falls far behind. You can pull "okay" numbers with Cast, just not maximum what we can do right now.

[spanishninja]

even more, how do you propose taking full advantage of the t19 bonuses in nighthold, which often requires being out of melee range? face it, the CS build was not only a numbers thing for us, but also a great quality of life improvement that helps alleviate our main weakness (mobility).

[Schizoide]

Why do half the threads here appear to be thinly veiled promotions for some people's youtube channel as of late?

They make money off it. They're placing unpaid ads on mmo-champ.

[mmowin]

If it's not too much to ask, can you guys tell me if 540k+ dps single target is considered good for heroic Nighthold?

[PassingBy]

If it's not too much to ask, can you guys tell me if 540k+ dps single target is considered good for heroic Nighthold?

If you do that on Krosus for the whole duration of the fight you'd be around 85-90 percentile.
So it is quite good.

[mmowin]

If you do that on Krosus for the whole duration of the fight you'd be around 85-90 percentile.
So it is quite good.

Awesome ty!

[Deleted]

Awesome ty!

If you care about your DPS just play frost. It's miles ahead of UH right now even without any legendarys.

[Nayami]

It's overall lower ST slightly, which is compounded even more once you get 4 piece, Draught or bracers. In AoE/Cleave it falls far behind. You can pull "okay" numbers with Cast, just not maximum what we can do right now.

Not to mention that you are able to handle raid mechanics while losing very little dps if you stack some Wounds before getting out of melee range, especially with our 4-set and Infected Claws. It's honestly the thing I love the most about Unholy.

Like on Elisande I soak a ton of crap and my DPS barely goes down while doing so.

[mmowin]

If you care about your DPS just play frost. It's miles ahead of UH right now even without any legendarys.

I am playing frost but I enjoy the Unholy playstyle a bit more, especially the Clawing Shadow version.

[Maxweii]

If you care about your DPS just play frost. It's miles ahead of UH right now even without any legendarys.

Frost is only like that on some fights. For all intents and purposes they are near equal on most of NH

[Deleted]

Is there enough logged data yet for a reasonable comparison?

[Kendros]

TBH Castigator still is pretty good, when i tested in game the pure ST is pretty much the same if not slightly higher, the cleave in 2-3 mobs is MUCH better with castigator simply because you can put a lot of wounds in a single festering strike and busrt them much faster during that DnD window, it only falls behing in large groups aoe situation, in that CS win by far.

The only reason i changed to CS is because the amount of aoe situations in NH and theres a lot of movement in Guldan/Elisande, on those fights CS just save the day.

[Deleted]

TBH Castigator still is pretty good, when i tested in game the pure ST is pretty much the same if not slightly higher, the cleave in 2-3 mobs is MUCH better with castigator simply because you can put a lot of wounds in a single festering strike and busrt them much faster during that DnD window, it only falls behing in large groups aoe situation, in that CS win by far.

The only reason i changed to CS is because the amount of aoe situations in NH and theres a lot of movement in Guldan/Elisande, on those fights CS just save the day.

Why would cs be better on more thsn 3 mobs?

Sorry if that id a stupid q

[Saltysquidoon]

Frost is only like that on some fights. For all intents and purposes they are near equal on most of NH

You're a nice guy and you put in work with the mastery guide so I'm going to cop flak for this but.

That's just way off the mark, frost smokes unholy on pretty much every fight (given frost is a top 5 spec right now that should come as no surprise*) I can smoke my own unholy parses with with frost in unholy gear with a dead legendary (unholy belt).
I mean we could probably go down the sample size rabbit hole or about how all the good dks are running frost so it's pushing unholy down but a cursory perusal of the top unholy parses show's they're running double bis, more mastery then christ and some even have draught the numbers just aren't there overall and they're certainly not there compared to frost.


EDIT;*Seeing as unholy's fighting really hard for last.

[mmowin]

You're a nice guy and you put in work with the mastery guide so I'm going to cop flak for this but.

That's just way off the mark, frost smokes unholy on pretty much every fight (given frost is a top 5 spec right now that should come as no surprise*) I can smoke my own unholy parses with with frost in unholy gear with a dead legendary (unholy belt).
I mean we could probably go down the sample size rabbit hole or about how all the good dks are running frost so it's pushing unholy down but a cursory perusal of the top unholy parses show's they're running double bis, more mastery then christ and some even have draught the numbers just aren't there overall and they're certainly not there compared to frost.


EDIT;*Seeing as unholy's fighting really hard for last.

Last time I checked both Frost and Unholy were middle of the pack and no where near the bottom. Has something changed? Or do you have a link where I can see this info. It's gonna really suck since ive invested so much time into both artifact wpns. I hope we dont end up at the bottom.

[mrmsix6]

Last time I checked both Frost and Unholy were middle of the pack and no where near the bottom. Has something changed? Or do you have a link where I can see this info. It's gonna really suck since ive invested so much time into both artifact wpns. I hope we dont end up at the bottom.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=90

Go through every boss. The higher percentile, the worse the relative performance gets. You can check Mythic as well, but that data is still very light/non-existent for many fights. (the early returns are...not good). From a pure log performance perspective, Frost is currently one of the best specs in the game while Unholy is one of the worst. Sure, maybe all the good players are just playing Frost and that skews the numbers, but that's always been a specious argument. Most players flocked to Frost and continue to play it for a reason: it's flat out better in nearly every scenario, on top of being easier to play. Hell, check the max parses. Unholy is at or near the bottom on damn near every fight, sometimes embarrassingly behind even the 2nd worst spec. Star Auger and Krosus, two of the more DPS-intensive fights in NH, are particularly hilarious in that regard.

Frost is better than Unholy on every fight, from anywhere to 1% (Skorpyron ) to nearly 15% on the more ST fights. Unholy single target damage is downright abysmal, and its mediocre cleave/aoe does not bridge the gap. The situation doesn't look to be getting better with gear, either.

It's fine if UH is a bit weaker on either ST or AOE than other melee specs, but to be mediocre at AOE and terrible at ST isn't a tenable position. In best case scenario fights with sustained cleave or AOE, UH is middle of the pack.

I love the spec and it has a ton of potential game play-wise, but the rotation and resource spend/use dynamic isn't quite there. To make matters worse, Unholy requires more effort than most specs in the game to play optimally. Not saying its difficult, but that's just a cherry on the shit sundae that is UH performance.

I do like some of the suggestions I've seen here lately in order to improve the spec beyond just numbers-wise. Things like allowing DC to consume more RP to do more damage, removing the rune cost of SR, eliminating some of the wound proc RNG - all are fairly simple changes that would really improve quality of life.

[Maxweii]

You're a nice guy and you put in work with the mastery guide so I'm going to cop flak for this but.

That's just way off the mark, frost smokes unholy on pretty much every fight (given frost is a top 5 spec right now that should come as no surprise*) I can smoke my own unholy parses with with frost in unholy gear with a dead legendary (unholy belt).
I mean we could probably go down the sample size rabbit hole or about how all the good dks are running frost so it's pushing unholy down but a cursory perusal of the top unholy parses show's they're running double bis, more mastery then christ and some even have draught the numbers just aren't there overall and they're certainly not there compared to frost.


EDIT;*Seeing as unholy's fighting really hard for last.

I mean on Augur yeah we are doing bad, that's about it. And that was before DA was being used (as now that everything for it is working well in Simc it's worth using)

TBH Castigator still is pretty good, when i tested in game the pure ST is pretty much the same if not slightly higher, the cleave in 2-3 mobs is MUCH better with castigator simply because you can put a lot of wounds in a single festering strike and busrt them much faster during that DnD window, it only falls behing in large groups aoe situation, in that CS win by far.

The only reason i changed to CS is because the amount of aoe situations in NH and theres a lot of movement in Guldan/Elisande, on those fights CS just save the day.

CS destroys Cast on 3 target cleave, a handleful of tests doesn't amount to what people have proven with hundreds of thousands of logs, or millions of iterations of sims.