ICE ‘surge’ puts 160 Southern California immigrants behind bars

[Wells]

When we shield people from the consequences of bad behavior at all costs, we rob them of learning from those mistakes and growing as human beings.

No one is saying this.

[Kellhound]

Maybe if you educated them better and made their lives less stressful they wouldn't feel the need to turn to such behaviour.

If that was only true....

[Elegiac]

If that was only true....

It actually is.

There's a reason that poor people tend to be the most afflicted by STI's, alcoholism, and drug abuse despite having the least money to spend on such things.

[Independent voter]

Here's the story from a legit news source


Police and immigration officials denied the “raids” and disputed the claim that the arrests were part of a more stringent approach, saying any detentions were simply part of “routine” enforcement activities. But a flurry of calls regarding arrests spurred immigration attorneys into rapid response efforts, and prompted protests on the streets of downtown Los Angeles.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...s-are-routine/

These raids have been happening for decades. Los Angeles is home to over a million illegal aliens.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

Everyone agrees there are millions of illegals. No matter which side or position I'm on, 160 is NOTHING.

[Hiricine]

Or you change them. Laws serve society. Not the other way around.


Fewer workers won't help the working class.

Well if it was that simple and we had a benevolent dictator that could change the laws for us, that would make sense. The problem is that even when you have laws that do need to change, its not as if the entire purpose of the law is faulty, and by selectively enforcing laws you invite people to "test the waters" by not obeying some laws.

I'm pretty confident you'd take issues with people breaking many other laws, though many including myself posting in this thread find it practical and moral to fine and deport illegal immigrants. But even assuming everyone agreed that the laws were pointless, where do you draw a line in favor of lawlessness? I'd love to stop paying my taxes this year, but it feels a little unjust the IRS comes for me if I ever owe them money when ICE can't even deport all the illegals.

point 2: It depends who those workers are. Ask Apple if they wish there were less smartphones in the US. Ask Debeers if they'd do better if they made more diamonds available for sale in the US. Any time you introduce competition for someone, you benefit the consumer at the detriment of that person, whether its justified or not. The idea that theres an inelastic price for labor that illegal immigrants happen to be a great fit for defies the laws of economics.

[Barnabas]

People that are here ILLEGALLY and commit crimes are being deported? Cry me a river. ICE conducts these raids 3 times per year, regardless, of who is president.

[Kellhound]

It actually is.

There's a reason that poor people tend to be the most afflicted by STI's, alcoholism, and drug abuse despite having the least money to spend on such things.

There is PLENTY of it happening at much higher income and education brackets. Stupidity transcends them both.

[Hiricine]

Here's the story from a legit news source


Police and immigration officials denied the “raids” and disputed the claim that the arrests were part of a more stringent approach, saying any detentions were simply part of “routine” enforcement activities. But a flurry of calls regarding arrests spurred immigration attorneys into rapid response efforts, and prompted protests on the streets of downtown Los Angeles.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...s-are-routine/

These raids have been happening for decades. Los Angeles is home to over a million illegal aliens.

Yeah they seem alarming to people, but part of the strategy is that if you try to return to the same apartment building to find 1 illegal alien at a time, you'll find one and the rest will be gone. If your goal is to round up and deport as many people as possible, you get better results doing large groups at a time to catch them off guard.

[Wells]

Well if it was that simple and we had a benevolent dictator that could change the laws for us, that would make sense.

You act like laws can't be changed or something. Or are you saying we should only argue for things that will be passed by the current regime?

The problem is that even when you have laws that do need to change, its not as if the entire purpose of the law is faulty, and by selectively enforcing laws you invite people to "test the waters" by not obeying some laws.

Immigration laws have to be selectively enforced. There are 10 million illegal immigrants in the country. If you're deporting some random mexican you're not deporting one violent criminal alien.

I'm pretty confident you'd take issues with people breaking many other laws, though many including myself posting in this thread find it practical and moral to fine and deport illegal immigrants. But even assuming everyone agreed that the laws were pointless, where do you draw a line in favor of lawlessness? I'd love to stop paying my taxes this year, but it feels a little unjust the IRS comes for me if I ever owe them money when ICE can't even deport all the illegals.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to relate to my argument.

point 2: It depends who those workers are. Ask Apple if they wish there were less smartphones in the US. Ask Debeers if they'd do better if they made more diamonds available for sale in the US. Any time you introduce competition for someone, you benefit the consumer at the detriment of that person, whether its justified or not. The idea that theres an inelastic price for labor that illegal immigrants happen to be a great fit for defies the laws of economics.

Its super simple. Contracting the labor supply is bad for the economy. When the economy contracts the poor are hurt the most. You might see a temporary bump in wages but it won't make up for slower growth.

[Deleted]

Deport the violent ones and provide a path the citizenship for the rest. Yes, we're a nation of laws. We also decide what those laws are.

Why would you provide a path for citizenship for people who reside in the country illegally?

[Wells]

Why would you provide a path for citizenship for people who reside in the country illegally?

Because your choices are either try to deport 10 million people who won't want to be found or provide them a reasonable path to come into the open. I also said I'd be fine with just permanent visas.

[Deleted]

Because your choices are either try to deport 10 million people who won't want to be found or provide them a reasonable path to come into the open. I also said I'd be fine with just permanent visas.

Why not pretend to provide them with a path and then deport them all?

[araine]

Enter a country illegally, prepare for the consequences. It's as simple as that, breaking the law by entering the country illegally is the exact same as breaking any other law. If it can be proven you have broken the law, you should receive the punishment for it.

There is literally nothing wrong with enforcing your border policies. You don't look at laws from an emotional level, that's stupid.

Not true there is a difference between penal law and civil law but i wouldnt expect you to understand that difference since technically it is NOT a crime to be undocumented

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Why not pretend to provide them with a path and then deport them all?

sounds exactly what nazis would love to do.

[Wells]

Why not pretend to provide them with a path and then deport them all?

Its amazing to me the effort people will go to to be shitty.

[Deleted]

Not true there is a difference between penal law and civil law but i wouldnt expect you to understand that difference since technically it is NOT a crime to be undocumented

Aliens can be classified as unlawfully present for one of three reasons: entering without authorization or inspection, staying beyond the authorized period after legal entry, or violating the terms of legal entry.[40]

Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code, "Improper entry of alien", provides for a fine, imprisonment, or both for any noncitizen who:[41]

enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration agents, or
eludes examination or inspection by immigration agents, or
attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact.

The maximum prison term is 6 months for the first offense and 2 years for any subsequent offense. In addition to the above criminal fines and penalties, civil fines may also be imposed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illega...migration_laws

So, why can they go to prison for it if it's not a crime?

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Its amazing to me the effort people will go to to be shitty.

You're not shitty just because you want people to go through the legal path for immigration instead of going "Fuck the laws of this country, I don't care".

[Zeta333]

Which is a felon. Illegal immigrants who are here committing felons sure as hell should not be allowed to stay. So I agree with you.

If they are here illegally they either need to be deported or finish the proper paperwork to become illegal. There should be zero fucking argument from anyone about wether an illegal is allowed to remain in country as illegal status. Its fucking illegal.

[Wells]

You're not shitty just because you want people to go through the legal path for immigration.

Trying to bait illegal immigrants into reporting themselves to ICE with promises of visas is pretty objectively a shitty thing to do. And doesn't really address the point if it works. You're talking about needing to provide due process for a surge of 10 million people.

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If they are here illegally they either need to be deported or finish the proper paperwork to become legal. There should be zero fucking argument from anyone about wether an illegal is allowed to remain in country as illegal status. Its fucking illegal.

This argument is internally self defeating.

[Deleted]

Trying to bait illegal immigrants into reporting themselves to ICE with promises of visas is pretty objectively a shitty thing to do. And doesn't really address the point if it works. You're talking about needing to provide due process for a surge of 10 million people.

No, it's not a shitty thing to do. It's a smart thing to do if you want to find them.

[Wells]

No, it's not a shitty thing to do. It's a smart thing to do if you want to find them.

Pretty funny you seem to think you could ramp up for that level of ethnic cleansing and no one would notice.