You are confusing people who give their opinions with normal people. Normal people are generally moderate. People who give their opinions in forums are generally motivated to do so and are rarely moderate. Having an Internet argument generally involves people are extreme in their views.
That fits what I said. You literally said what I said, but acted like I did not say that. I said there are places where a moderate would take from the right, take from the left, and/or meet in the middle.
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So simply because you're against immigration policy in the US(let's assume you mean you don't think illegal immigrants should get amnesty), but you're pro choice. Should you be a republican who would be pro life typically or a democrat who would be pro amnesty? Having a strong opinion about an area doesn't make you right, left, or a certain party. The collection of ideals is what defines where you fall.
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It really is ridiculous how diametric we have become at this point.
The problem with extremists is that their definition of moderate is completely wrong
For example, you ask a religious person who thinks abortion is actual child-murder what the correct "moderate" opinion is on abortion, and it definitely won't allow for it under any circumstances
Similar to if you ask someone on the left if transgender people may just be mentally ill, and they definitely won't allow for it under any circumstances
All extremists have a line they cannot cross because some things are "absolutely" right, even though they might be highly questionable
Perfect example
Last edited by mmoca8403991fd; 2017-02-11 at 06:12 PM.
Humans aren't mindless beast who are beholden to their instincts and cannot think. They are perfectly capable of cooperation with strangers, in fact, what generally seperates humans as a species from apes is innate altruism.
In short, the "instinctive us versus them mentality" is an excuse.
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Yes, that is the difference between moderate and middle ground.
People don't aggressively cling to the side, at least what is portrayed. When actually having a civil discussion with fellow people that would be defined as republicans by the liberals they see good attributes on both sides. They just tend to vote Republican because of things like being against abortion are typically republican traits and things like that tend to usually outweigh the good stuff from the democratic side. Not saying for all, because I have many "Republican" friends who voted for Obama even as another example. Liberals though (not all of democrats being implied as liberals, just as liberals try to refer to all the right as alt-right) are in their own little world where basically f everyone and everything that disagrees with them, but for the sake of just always being against republicans, f anything they like.
From an european perspective, because the choice is between right wing and super extreme right wing.
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
I don't know what the hell I am.
Liberally, I'm pro choice. I think healthcare and childcare should be "free". I do not think college should be free, but I am not against it being supported financially under specific circumstances. I am not against immigration. I'm open to it. I think it should be easier to get a Visa. Facts show immigration crime is not even a huge problem. I prefer to avoid violence if possible. I don't think we should provoke war.
Conservatively, I'm pro-gun. I think immigrants should integrate, and potentially face deportation if they refuse to. I am against leeching, but not against people being on welfare that legitimately need it. I think violence is the answer sometimes. I know radical Muslims are a thing, but I know peaceful Muslims are too. I think welfare and food stamps should be more strictly controlled.
I'm more against people that could work and refuse to than I am against integrated illegal immigrants.
Liberals call me a Conservative and Conservatives call me a "Pussified Liberal". lol
No one is saying we are mindless beasts. I'm saying we have to recognize these biases exist and consciously fight against them. Most people fail to do the first part and thus don't ever get to make the decision to do the second. Obviously we aren't mindless or we would rape and kill each other. These things come out in very subtle ways and if you aren't mindful you will miss it.
Sure it's an excuse but I'm not using it as a reason to be racist or whatever. But people who are racist are succombing to this bias and they aren't self aware enough to know it. I thought that was clear in my post, so sorry for the confusion.
Last edited by Varaben; 2017-02-11 at 07:53 PM.
OP, it's easy to reply to your title question.
Let's say that you have many people middle left and middle right and a few radicals on each side.
Now, let's say that a few of those radicals somehow either get to power or in a position that is important. Since they are radicals, they will start spreading their bullshit. As they do, the radicals from the other side will say "see, I told you those guys are like demons from Hell!" and their view will start to make sense. And some of the moderates will become more radical themselves. As they do that, the radicals grow in number, so the people on the first side will say "see, I told you those guys are the actual demons from Hell!" and their side will start gaining radicals and losing moderates.
So, numbers of radical people grows on each side, and the conflict grows with it as, as the numbers of radicals grows, they also support increasingly radical characters in leading positions to oppose those evil guys from the OTHER side.
Now... if people were educated enough and had enough time, they could document themselves and understand that they are falling into this pitfall. You are from the USA. Your education system has become more and more expensive, so less people can afford to finish a good education. Furthermore, due to the low pay, many people sometimes have 2 jobs or work overtime. When they get home, they don't have time or interest in the political debate. But they hear on tv or from a radical how "evil other side did X horrible thing" (it might not be true or might be made bigger than it is). They don't have time or are not educated enough to see if that is true. So they believe it and start hating the other side.
TL;DR: Unfortunately, this polarization is an effect of the lack of education and the fact that people have less time to think about anything else besides the day of tomorrow.
I'm not claming anything other than the fact that I agree with both the right-wing and the left wing on certain subjects.
Again, I don't identify as either. I've told you as much, but you keep insisting out of the hopes you will bait me.
And please don't talk to me about tantrums.
i've been called a radical pinko feminazi commie for not wanting my bodily rights violated.
i consider myself pretty moderate.
The reason it's hard for me to be moderate is due to the hate, fear mongering and absolute crazy that is the American conservatives. The fear that brown people are going to waltz over here from halfway across the world and kill you, or the fear that brown people are coming across the border in scores like some kind of B zombie invasion movie as well as the fear of gun rights being "restricted" is a complete fabrication of the right, especially Donald.
On top of that, you have conservative congressmen claiming that women should be forced to carry their rapists baby to term, you have governors that deny women their right to free speech. The American left has its problems, but the right is nothing more than a 4-chanesque cesspool that can't decide if brown people are good for manual farming labor or bad because they took all the factory jobs.
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.
LOL no you don't...no offense man, you just spout of conservative nonsense without any sort of research in any thread I've read. Not sure what part of your ideology is "democratic socialist".
OT: most people are moderates, if you talk to them about policy without the labels it is apparent that most people fall in the middle. What you are seeing in the US is basic ingroup/outgroup behavior where the other political party is demonized due to essentially tribalism.
If we are to thrive as a country again we need people who can bring the two groups together. Something that can more likely be accomplished by political independents, rather than a third party (although a prominent 3rd/4th parties would have other benefits to democracy).