More Americans kill Americans than anyone from those countries. Maybe we should ban travel to the USA if you're from the USA.
More Americans kill Americans than anyone from those countries. Maybe we should ban travel to the USA if you're from the USA.
So you believe, whether you have inside Intel or not, that if the department of homeland security has tracked terror networks moving through specific countries, that those countries should be free to travel here under the current vetting process regardless of a potential threat? It's a hypothetical question of course. I personally believe if the DHS has even the slightest reason to believe there is a threat they should act immediately. Its an inconvenience, but thats the price we pay for the past two administration's failing horribly on the war in the middle east, and relations with those countries. Honestly, I feel this temporary ban was blown way out of proportion.
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Which would have led to the unknown, right? Therefore you can only assume malicious intent regardless of who was or wasnt hurt. Anyone who comes to our country should come with good intentions. The fact that you find that they were here as not a big deal shocks me. They shouldn't have been able to get through in the first place since our current vetting process is so good and all.
Except that its values or circumstances haven't shifted all that much, and that's really my ultimate point which you fail to grasp.
The US hasn't actually changed all that much, shocking I know right? What people look at as change in our history, civil rights and slavery shit, human rights whatever was already there in the Constitution, the Declaration and the Bill of Rights from the beginning.
What changed is there stopped being secondary tiers of people, as far as the letter of the law was concerned. The contradiction collapsed and the liberties and freedoms guaranteed therein became an across the board thing as they should have been from the start.
So this whole notion of change, of breaking away from our traditions and values is fucking stupid, and everyone who suggests it is doubly so because the ideas and premises have been right in your face the entire time and the only "change" that ever had to happen and did happen was that they had to be applied universally. Now that they are the entire argument can be put in the trash because it's really just bellyachers crying not for the freedoms they've been 'denied' but for the power to suppress someone/thing else.
Our laws serve the good of our society, and our society would be much better if the laws were applied strictly and completely. There doesn't need to be any radical changes, the basic tenets of the Constitution just need to be applied direct and strict which of course means a good chunk of the 100k pages of laws created after the Constitution need to go in the trash too.
The Fresh Prince of Baudelaire
Banned at least 10 times. Don't give a fuck, going to keep saying what I want how I want to.
Eat meat. Drink water. Do cardio and burpees. The good life.
<~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.
<~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.
No vetting process is going to flag every single person who has ill intent. There will always be holes one can slip through. You should never pin all your hopes that one agency will stop them all. These guys got through 1 level...but were stopped by the next before they could actually do anything. That's a working system.
“The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.
so your vision is that of a first world country to it's citizens and a third world authoritarian brothel to others?
apart from the obvious issues of american muslims, dual citizenships, american non-muslims with citizenship from the said countries, people who never got involved in any of that shit and are just banned for no reason and whatever else the Donald managed to not think off (he's very good at that)
values are universal, either you believe on them or you don't, if you only apply them due to 'obligation' you're a hypocrite
seriously what are you afraid of those people? i assure you Trump's abolishment of Obamacare will kill more than they ever will, bets are on
btw why you didn't vote for Trump? you have something against the color orange?
ITT I learned that terrorism is ok as long as nobody gets killed, its just all fun and games. smh, kysf
No, my vision for the country is that it works in accord and for the betterment of its' citizens and engages fairly and openly with the rest of the world, never forgetting that protecting its' people and their interests is the primary concern and doing so in a non exploitive manner.
Dual citizenship shouldn't exist, period.
Values as far as national values extend to the citizens and to the borders, and that's it. Universal values are never more important than individual national and cultural values. Fuck universalists.
It's not fear, and that you automatically equate it to that is stupid. Protecting what you value, who you love and care for and everything you and they have done and will do is the motivation.
I didn't vote for Trump because he's not my guy and I sure as shit didn't believe in Hillary. I don't support either major US party as it is two sides of the same shit coin.
The Fresh Prince of Baudelaire
Banned at least 10 times. Don't give a fuck, going to keep saying what I want how I want to.
Eat meat. Drink water. Do cardio and burpees. The good life.
I can get in board with you on that. Totally agree. I'd really like to see this new vetting process that's supposedly in the works, because it 'could' have turned into a plane hijack- of course that's a reach and complete hypothetical, but we'd be having a different conversation taking different stances. I hate to be the type of person that thinks, "well at least it was only this that happened." When the reality is it could have been a lot worse. I'd never expect a perfect system but our borders through aviation better be our strongest. Hell I've gone through an airport last year without having to step through a metal detector or their screening system, granted I fly all the time. There are definitely weaknesses that need to be addressed.
One of these governments also being one of, if not the, biggest sponsor of Islamic terrorism in the world, and worst example of extremist Sharia law application second only to ISIS itself. The only reason Saudi Arabia isn't on the list is because the US actually have interests there, not because the place cannot breed terrorists and extremists.
You guys think this was about principles? Ha. No one gives a fuck about principles in international politics. The list was cobbled together from 7 countries where the US have little interests so that Trump could claim that he's tough on terrorism without actually offending anyone that matters, when existing measures weed out the chaff just fine. I think the US is being played here. It's all a smokescreen that wouldn't have accomplished jack shit. But Trump would have been able to say he did something, so there's that I guess.
If you want to be safe while driving your car, being proactive means obeying all reasonable safety measures, being alert and never driving drunk. It doesn't mean never even using your car because there's a risk, that's just cutting your nose to spite your face.
I see you don't have any response to what I actually said to you. I thought that might be the case.
As to dual citizenship, it makes zero sense to encourage divided loyalties and all the other rampant problems that come about from it. Then again it's amusing to see an authoritarian argue for something that by design decreases and undermines authority.
The Fresh Prince of Baudelaire
Banned at least 10 times. Don't give a fuck, going to keep saying what I want how I want to.
Eat meat. Drink water. Do cardio and burpees. The good life.
Nothing does, of course. What I'm implying is that dual citizenship goes much farther to undermining the creation and sustenance of loyalty than singular citizenship does. Our Founding Fathers thought this as well.
Harshly.
I know it doesn't, but the kid I was responding to who Didactic decided to take up for rather than respond to what I actually said to him previous was arguing for universalism, and that somehow and for some unnamed reasons the freedoms and liberties guaranteed us in our Constitution should just be extended to the whole world, which is of course bullshit but this is MMOC so yeah, bullshit happens.
The Fresh Prince of Baudelaire
Banned at least 10 times. Don't give a fuck, going to keep saying what I want how I want to.
Eat meat. Drink water. Do cardio and burpees. The good life.
You mean less easy to indoctrinate people into a 'my country, right or wrong' mindset that is ultimately more harmful that actually looking at things in relative terms? Sure.
The Founding Fathers didn't have sufficient foresight to define citizenship in the foundational document of the state they created, so I think we can safely discount whatever rubbish they believed.
Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi