Coming out as a conservative - How polarization push moderates to take a stand.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

YOU are the one stereotyping here. Unless you have some actual data to point to. I won't even touch the strawman argument you tried to deflect with. If you make claims with nothing to back them up expect to get called out for it. That's how debate and discussion works.

Sorry, did you even bother clicking on the link?

[Wyrt]

"Criticized"?

Where was the criticism in the original post's story? It was an avalanche of death threats and people behaving like cult members by totally cutting ties with someone whom they disagree with.

Most progressives right now do not criticize, they throw around bigot labels, platform, and ostracize those they disagree with. There's a lot more rioting to prevent conservative speakers on college campuses right now then there are debates where opinions are aired and criticisms are given.

You mean the party that opposes gay marriage, letting gay couples adopted kids, and wants to make it legal for businesses to discriminate against gays gets called bigots? Who would have thought?

Oh, and the right insults liberals all the fucking time. Maybe the right should grow thicker skins and stop being offended by everything.

[May90]

"Criticized"?

Where was the criticism in the original post's story? It was an avalanche of death threats and people behaving like cult members by totally cutting ties with someone whom they disagree with.

Most progressives right now do not criticize, they throw around bigot labels, platform, and ostracize those they disagree with. There's a lot more rioting to prevent conservative speakers on college campuses right now then there are debates where opinions are aired and criticisms are given.

Baby... This is a social world, here people are sometimes mean, sometimes conformist, sometimes cultist. If I had a cent for every time someone overreacted to me trying to express my opinion, I could buy this planet and reshape it to my liking!

[downnola]

I think white nationalism is more represented in neo-nazism than alt-right. Again, it's not what defines the alt-right -- the fact that Spencer is attributed to the movement is proof enough that the term alt-right is misleading as to what the alt-right is. The alt-right is extreme conservative values pushed in authoritarian fashion. White nationalism is part of the agenda -- it's just not the agenda.

The alt-right might not call it by what it is, but White nationalism is their agenda according to one of the movements "leading intellectuals."

Natural conservatives can broadly be described as the group that the intellectuals above were writing for. They are mostly white, mostly male middle-American radicals, who are unapologetically embracing a new identity politics that prioritises the interests of their own demographic.

The alt-right do not hold a utopian view of the human condition: just as they are inclined to prioritise the interests of their tribe, they recognise that other groups – Mexicans, African-Americans or Muslims – are likely to do the same. As communities become comprised of different peoples, the culture and politics of those communities become an expression of their constituent peoples.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/0...the-alt-right/

It doesn't matter how they dress up their "idealogy," it's still tribalism.

[May90]

"Alt-right" = "alternative right", much like "alt-medicine", "alt-science" and "alt-facts"?

Not sure why people take them seriously, when they are obviously just an unintelligent rabble that based their "ideology" on conspiracy theories and objectively false premises.

[Total Crica]

politics force people to take a stance

Nope. Being a functioning adult does. If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything.

[Taneras]

You mean the party that opposes gay marriage, letting gay couples adopted kids, and wants to make it legal for businesses to discriminate against gays gets called bigots? Who would have thought?

Lets change the topic to how the majority of British Muslims want to outright ban homosexuality and watch how "nuanced" the conversation gets. Go ahead, tell us how bigoted the Islamic world is against gays and women.

No doubt conservatives have issues with social issues. But just screaming "bigot" isn't going to change most people's opinion on the matter. Reasoned arguments and debates do, though. But that can't happen when people are de-platformed and the limit of "debate" is just calling people bigots.

Oh, and the right insults liberals all the fucking time. Maybe the right should grow thicker skins and stop being offended by everything.

It's not about the insults, its about how, for whatever reason, progressives think that simply calling someone a racist constitutes a reasonable conversation. I have no problem with insults, I do have a problem with the limit of someone's ability to discuss political issues with someone whom they disagree with is them hurling bigoted labels (racist, sexist, etc.).

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Baby... This is a social world, here people are sometimes mean, sometimes conformist, sometimes cultist. If I had a cent for every time someone overreacted to me trying to express my opinion, I could buy this planet and reshape it to my liking!

Thanks for the obvious, but I don't see how its relevant to the point I made.

At least from the gay jounralists point of view, there wasn't really any criticism just people cutting ties and death threats. That's not "criticizing". Something tells me if this was a group of conservatives reacting to a friend who came out gay you wouldn't see this story as just "criticism".

[Wyrt]

Lets change the topic to how the majority of British Muslims want to outright ban homosexuality and watch how "nuanced" the conversation gets. Go ahead, tell us how bigoted the Islamic world is against gays and women.

Sure, they have bigoted views, but they have no political power in the west. Unlike Republicans.

No doubt conservatives have issues with social issues. But just screaming "bigot" isn't going to change most people's opinion on the matter. Reasoned arguments and debates, do, though. But that can't happen when people are de-platformed and the limit of "debate" is just calling people bigots.

What's there to debate about? Republicans want to restrict rights. A debate would just legitimize their abhorrent position on some social issues.

It's not about the insults, its about how, for whatever reason, progressives think that simply calling someone a racist constitutes a reasonable conversation. I have no problem with insults, I do have a problem with the limit of someone's ability to discuss political issues with someone whom they disagree with is them hurling bigoted labels (racist, sexist, etc.).

You think Republicans don't throw labels on people? That's cute.

[Hotmail]

"Alt-right" = "alternative right", much like "alt-medicine", "alt-science" and "alt-facts"?

Not sure why people take them seriously, when they are obviously just an unintelligent rabble that based their "ideology" on conspiracy theories and objectively false premises.

The Alt-Right of today is the New Left of the 60s. They are on the political spectrum because there is a niche for them, because the student generation need their radicalism.

In the long run, America benefits from its fringe movements keeping the establishment in check.

[NineSpine]

The Alt-Right of today is the New Left of the 60s. They are on the political spectrum because there is a niche for them, because the student generation need their radicalism.

In the long run, America benefits from its fringe movements keeping the establishment in check.

The alt-right isn't keeping the establishment in check. Just because fringe movements are a GENERALLY positive concept, doesn't mean they always are. Radical Islam is a fringe movement in the U.S., and I'd hardly call that positive.

[Taneras]

Sure, they have bigoted views, but they have no political power in the west. Unlike Republicans.

Funny wording there, Muslims who believe that homosexuality should be outlawed simply have "bigoted views" whereas conservatives who do not want gays to get married are actually bigots. While I condemn both stances one is much worse than the other and therefore, you'd think, would get the worse label.

Also, I thought progressives cared about people outside of America. A criticism of Trump and his supporters is that they only care about what happens here in America. Women, gays, and non-Muslims suffer greatly in Islamic theocracies.

What's there to debate about? A debate would just legitimize their abhorrent position on some social issues.

Incorrect. I had those views and reasonable discussion with those who thought differently caused me to change my views. I can say the same for several of my friends.

You think Republicans don't throw labels on people? That's cute.

No, I know they do. But that's not the limit of most of their interaction with people whom they disagree with.

[Hotmail]

The alt-right isn't keeping the establishment in check. Just because fringe movements are a GENERALLY positive concept, doesn't mean they always are. Radical Islam is a fringe movement in the U.S., and I'd hardly call that positive.

Terrorism is always deplorable. However, the Alt-Right is significantly more influential than Radical Islam in the US, and as a whole can not be considered a terrorist organization - they are activists.

Nobody could have predicted the influence that the New Left would go on to have back in 60s. They were looked down upon with the same disdain, discredited with the same arguments, and still went on to change the political landscape of America forever.

[Wyrt]

Funny wording there, Muslims who believe that homosexuality should be outlawed simply have "bigoted views" whereas conservatives who do not want gays to get married are actually bigots. While I condemn both stances one is much worse than the other and therefore, you'd think, would get the worse label.

Muslims have no power in the US, so yes, Republicans are worse because they can actually enforce their will.

Also, I thought progressives cared about people outside of America. A criticism of Trump and his supporters is that they only care about what happens here in America. Women, gays, and non-Muslims suffer greatly in Islamic theocracies.

And? We can't go to war with every single country on the planet that we disagree with. But we can and should help them in other ways, including taking refugees. Military interventionism is what lead to the middle east being the cluster fuck that it is in the first place.

No, I know they do. But that's not the limit of most of their interaction with people whom they disagree with.

You ever try posting on any of these right wing subreddits or websites with anything other than circle jerk comments? Because you get banned pretty much instantly.

[NineSpine]

Terrorism is always deplorable. However, the Alt-Right is significantly more influential than Radical Islam in the US, and as a whole can not be considered a terrorist organization - they are activists.

Nobody could have predicted the influence that the New Left would go on to have back in 60s. They were looked down upon with the same disdain, discredited with the same arguments, and still went on to change the political landscape of America forever.

I didn't say anything about terrorism. Mormon polygamists are a fringe movement. Are they doing a lot to make America a better place?

The same arguments were not used against the New Left. The primary problem with the alt right is their obsession with using the internet to doxx and otherwise harass regular people, often illegally, through campaigns of disinformation and personal destruction. You can't just call two things ideologies and pretends that that means that they are the same thing. It's like saying a boat and a plane are both vehicles so they must work by the same rules.

[Taneras]

Muslims have no power in the US, so yes, Republicans are worse because they can actually enforce their will.

Republicans have no power in the Middle East, so yes, Muslims are worse because they can actually enforce their will.

Did I do it right?

I guess Republicans are worse than the Nazis were because, you know, power within America and all that.

And?

And you shouldn't minimize those atrocities happening just because they're not happening within America's borders.

We can't go to war with every single country on the planet that we disagree with. But we can and should help them in other ways, including taking refugees. Military interventionism is what lead to the middle east being the cluster fuck that it is in the first place.

I never mentioned anything of the sort. Pushing for reform within the Islamic religion via reasoned debate is probably the best possibility.

Look at Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

You ever try posting on any of these right wing subreddits or websites with anything other than circle jerk comments? Because you get banned pretty much instantly.

Yea, and that really sucks. It sucks much worse when the same thing happens on college campuses though.

[rogueMatthias]

Just read the first article. There's a lot of truth to it. I'm pretty liberal but even I get a lot of stick from people just by trying to think things through rationally or trying to see a debate from someone elses' viewpoint.

I managed to get into a massive debate with some people I know who ended up calling me a nazi-sympathiser amongst other things, JUST for arguing that, while awful, Trump isn't THE ABSOLUTE WORST president the US has ever had. That's enough to get you called Hitler by other liberals these days :/

I can understand if peope are just massively ignorant of history and of US foreign policy over the past century, but even when you inform people of the history or other Presidents then they'll still argue that dropping nukes and rounding all the Japanese in to concentration camps etc are still somehow not as bad as what Trump's done so far.

Reversely, you'll also get called a racist for arguing that Obama WASN'T the greatest President ever. Clinton fucked over Libya entirely and made puns about the death of Gaddafi as if she was Horatio Caine, but you still get called a misogynist for saying she was anything but amazing+ inspiring.

[Sama-81]

The alt-right isn't keeping the establishment in check. Just because fringe movements are a GENERALLY positive concept, doesn't mean they always are. Radical Islam is a fringe movement in the U.S., and I'd hardly call that positive.

Well, one could argue that while obviously a really bad concept in and of itself, radical islamism, if nothing else, serves a role as to show how utterly ridiculous some elements on the extreme left (as well as hardcore european liberals) have become, along with some of their talking points (such as for example heavy use of identity politics and leanings towards general authoritarianism). Not that there aren't other ideologies just as crazy and destructive out there, like the alt-right for example - because there certainly are (case in point). Then again, anyone that supports the "extreme" side of anything, is likely either criminally naive, or criminally stupid. Not sure which would be worse, tbh.

Oh, and groups such as ISIS and al-Qaida also help us see how exceedingly polarized the debate has become, sadly, by reminding us all what the closest thing to the "spirit of nazism", not to mention fascism, that the world of today actually has to offer is - ie, most certainly not the alt-right or anything similar (deplorable as they are, and they are indeed, such language is simply straight out ignorant). The largest threat to the stability of the western world isn't any "-ism" what-so-ever for that matter, imho, but rather the extreme polarization we have managed to create. And that can not be blamed on any one side alone, impractical as it may be.

[Masark]

Trump isn't THE ABSOLUTE WORST president the US has ever had.

Who was worse?

For equality, only consider their actions for the first month of their presidency.

[rogueMatthias]

Who was worse?

For equality, only consider their actions for the first month of their presidency.

christ. Well if we only include their first month in power, he's worse than both Hitler and Stalin clearly

[Taneras]

christ. Well if we only include their first month in power, he's worse than both Hitler and Stalin clearly

You have to understand, the main stream media has these poor souls worked up into a frenzy.