[Discussion] Disc Healing Compared To Other Healers [Comparison][Raiding][Mythic+]

[Maseena]

You bet you would be right if only all evidence proving the contrary didnt exist. If only you could answer the arguments instead of running away.

Ok then please show me that proof.

[MendUS]

Ok then please show me that proof.

It's right above your post...

[Popokolara]

Well, in all honesty, there have been arguments presented in the last 12 pages of this topic, yet people just waltz in and put down the same personal opinions, demanding for the same explanations over and over again - which gets frustrating after a while. You could check what Mend and other good disc priests are doing and see there is more to it, facts (read logs) are better than a thousand words. The spec is not everybody's cup of tea, but people that like the challenge deserve something tailored for them too.

He doesnt care. He is one of the people who already read those arguments, and wants to make people look like jerks by artificially multiplying the voices against them. Its not about the facts, its about one mans little personal vendetta.

[Maseena]

He doesnt care. He is one of the people who already read those arguments, and wants to make people look like jerks by artificially multiplying the voices against them. Its not about the facts, its about one mans little personal vendetta.

All i was saying that from a developers perspective any class or spec in ANY game which the majority of the players dont like is considered a failure.
At least for the CFOS.

I do fine playing my disc and i am on par with the other healers i am raiding with.
I myself like disc very much.

I didnt post to troll but to give those people a voice who think disc is overly complicated.

[Deleted]

All i was saying that from a developers perspective any class or spec in ANY game which the majority of the players dont like is considered a failure.
At least for the CFOS.

I do fine playing my disc and i am on par with the other healers i am raiding with.
I myself like disc very much.

I didnt post to troll but to give those people a voice who think disc is overly complicated.

I think they said they are aware the spec appeals to less people, and they are fine with it.

[MendUS]

All i was saying that from a developers perspective any class or spec in ANY game which the majority of the players dont like is considered a failure.
At least for the CFOS.

I do fine playing my disc and i am on par with the other healers i am raiding with.
I myself like disc very much.

I didnt post to troll but to give those people a voice who think disc is overly complicated.

Lol, I like how you're backtracking but your first post was to make a point that Disc was a failure:

I dont get all the discussions going on to be honest.

Disc design is a complete failure and nothing people say changes that fact.

And here is why:

Obviously blizzard is trying to make WOW more casual friendly with this expansion, thats why almost all specs lost tons of spells and abilities.

A spec which is way more complicated to play than other healers and doesnt compensate the complexity with a better reward is a failure.

A spec which only really shines in Mythic raid content... a part of the game maybe only 15-20% of the playerbase take part in is a failure.

There is a a reason disc is the least played healing spec.

People find it too complicated and unrewarding. Of course some few people are able to play disc to the fullest potential, but if they put that skill and hassle into any other healing spec they would absolutely DOMINATE the healing meters.

Any class design which leads to people not playing a spec is a failure, simple as that.

Its not what individulas think its what the majority thinks because THEY pay them game and the devs.

There is no reason really why disc has so much ramp up time with different abilities while all other healers have click and forget heals and raidcooldowns.
Lets look at Hots.

If other healers want to HOT the group they simply click the spell and the partymember and renew it when it drops off. 5 Clicks thats it....

Disc on the other hand has to use PW:S and FOUR pleas to set up atonement and THEN use Shadowword Pain on a target.
After that you have to check the remaining time of atonement on the group AND the mob you used SW:P on....

Of course some people like the challenge to master a complicated spec. Most people dont though.

You cant blame people for disliking a spec that is like 3 times more work compared to other healers just to be ON PAR with them.

I mean, I'm glad you've come around, but you can't just ignore the fact you made like 5-6 posts stating Disc was a failure and did not heal in line with other healers if equally skilled. You even asked for proof (and I obliged).

[Popokolara]

All i was saying that from a developers perspective any class or spec in ANY game which the majority of the players dont like is considered a failure.
At least for the CFOS.

I do fine playing my disc and i am on par with the other healers i am raiding with.
I myself like disc very much.

I didnt post to troll but to give those people a voice who think disc is overly complicated.

The complexity has been voiced times and time again. We all agree there.
I dont think we recognised your true intent however and for that i apologise. I and other got confused with what you meant when you said:

"There is no reason really why disc has so much ramp up time with different abilities while all other healers have click and forget heals and raidcooldowns."
"So disc is the spec for people who want to show off ?"
"If the Ferrari cost 10 times as much as a Toyota and only drives 10 mp/h faster and has no real other great extras.... Yeah the Ferrari is a complete failure"
"If you dont respect other persons views, just insult them......"
"The problem is NOBODY EVER has proven that the spec can be so much better then the other healer specs if played to its full potential."

[Heathy]

i've been playing around with disc in low mythics boosting alts and such and I think it has the potential to be as good as other healers you just have to know when damage is coming. in niche scenarios the burst healing surpasses holy i think, but then there are times when your doing practically no healing and just applying atonement. I don't actually have a dedicated disc legendary yet so i'm just using muze's as a stand in until i get a proper disc legendary, although the smite bonus is marginally helpful, what i've noticed is that if you want snap healing in a small group, schism is great for that, short cooldown, 30% increased damage for 6 seconds, if you have atonement up on the group, schism then penance, thats a big burst of healing. the 4 piece set bonus helps quite a bit, the 2 piece doesn't really help tanks that much as shield usually won't last past 1 melee swing but if someone goes low you shield them, so long as they don't lose the shield you can top ppl up faster.

this week i'm going to try disc in normal nh and see how it performs on various fights compared to the holy pom afk spec. I still think a disc priest really depends on the other healers in your raid, if you have 2 druids for raid healing then going disc could give you good tank healing and raid wide damage reduction for specific boss abilities. thats discs niche, its not a great aoe healing spec, but it is able to take the pressure off raid healers.

[MendUS]

I still think a disc priest really depends on the other healers in your raid, if you have 2 druids for raid healing then going disc could give you good tank healing and raid wide damage reduction for specific boss abilities. thats discs niche, its not a great aoe healing spec, but it is able to take the pressure off raid healers.

Uh... wait... what? Did you read anything said in this thread in the past 12 pages?

Disc is specifically a raid healer, and a terrible tank healer. You shouldn't go into Nighthold until you at least do some research on the spec.

[Deleted]

i've been playing around with disc in low mythics boosting alts and such and I think it has the potential to be as good as other healers you just have to know when damage is coming. in niche scenarios the burst healing surpasses holy i think, but then there are times when your doing practically no healing and just applying atonement. I don't actually have a dedicated disc legendary yet so i'm just using muze's as a stand in until i get a proper disc legendary, although the smite bonus is marginally helpful, what i've noticed is that if you want snap healing in a small group, schism is great for that, short cooldown, 30% increased damage for 6 seconds, if you have atonement up on the group, schism then penance, thats a big burst of healing.

this week i'm going to try disc in normal nh and see how it performs on various fights compared to the holy pom afk spec. I still think a disc priest really depends on the other healers in your raid, if you have 2 druids for raid healing then going disc could give you good tank healing and raid wide damage reduction for specific boss abilities. thats discs niche, its not a great aoe healing spec, but it is able to take the pressure off raid healers.

I don't want to burst your enthusiasm, but if you're expecting disc to do good tank healing, you might be in for a surprise :P. Disc is exactly an aoe healing spec in raids, with its greatest strength being burst healing on predictable raid wide dmg. I would recommend you to read Mend's guide for an idea!

[Heathy]

Uh... wait... what? Did you read anything said in this thread in the past 12 pages?

ofc i did, sure you can spam radiance and go oom or rely on innervates, during your burst moments, for however long that lasts for you, number of adds, heroism, PI, whatever your using to create your bursts, it can heal for more than holy it just doesn't last as long, the pom spec is more consistent there is no down time.

I'd like to play disc more mainly because it does bring something to a raid that holy doesn't at the same time, the loss of hymn, i don't think barrier and hymn are balanced in terms of cooldowns hymn is just much better than barrier. that is what stands out to me the most when comparing holy and disc.

I don't doubt discs raid healing ability it just costs a lot of mana to do what holy does inherently, if your going disc in a raid surely you should be one of the healers who is focused on the tanks, your atonements targets should include at least both tanks first then whoever else second.

[MendUS]

ofc i did, sure you can spam radiance and go oom or rely on innervates, during your burst moments, for however long that lasts for you, number of adds, heroism, PI, whatever your using to create your bursts, it can heal for more than holy it just doesn't last as long, the pom spec is more consistent there is no down time.

That's not how it works at all.

Again, you should do some research before stepping foot in a raid, or you're going to get terrible results.

[Jimjam38]

Hey guys, Ion Hazzikostas just messaged me and he wants you all to know that disc is fine and if you think it's bad or you don't like it for any reason, then blizzard's internal data is showing that actually you're just bad.

- - - Updated - - -

He also said disc shouldn't try to tank heal cause obviously that's just stupid.

Again, it's not my words, that's coming straight from Ion himself.

[Popokolara]

ofc i did, sure you can spam radiance and go oom or rely on innervates, during your burst moments, for however long that lasts for you, number of adds, heroism, PI, whatever your using to create your bursts, it can heal for more than holy it just doesn't last as long, the pom spec is more consistent there is no down time.

I'd like to play disc more mainly because it does bring something to a raid that holy doesn't at the same time, the loss of hymn, i don't think barrier and hymn are balanced in terms of cooldowns hymn is just much better than barrier. that is what stands out to me the most when comparing holy and disc.

I don't doubt discs raid healing ability it just costs a lot of mana to do what holy does inherently, if your going disc in a raid surely you should be one of the healers who is focused on the tanks, your atonements targets should include at least both tanks first then whoever else second.

I think you were meant to read what the people who actually raid do, and not what my second cousin who has a 780 disci priest and did his first heroic 5man while getting boosted thinks we should do. Also hymn is better than barrier? in what sense? in lfr damage numbers maybe.

Still i would be very interested to hear you out. What made you come to the conclusion if raid focusing on tanks. Please share the thought process and math calculations.

[Heathy]

I think you were meant to read what the people who actually raid do, and not what my second cousin who has a 780 disci priest and did his first heroic 5man while getting boosted thinks we should do. Also hymn is better than barrier? in what sense? in lfr damage numbers maybe.

fucking moody circle jerk in here.

Disc performs fine for me, I think it shines better in small groups, 5 mans definately, spike group damage, not that great, it has no instant cast aoe heals thats the draw back, down times while applying atonement.

my disc and holy specs are quite close to each other, my disc weap is 897, my holy weap is 910, I get a performance loss going disc because its not my main spec, what i've noticed is that fights with consistent ticking damage are not that fun to heal as disc, where as the holy pom spec laughs at that type of raid wide damage. one example would be guarm. I would rather go pom spec and have sanctify and hymn, any day of the week over fucking around trying to atonement heal the whole raid.

[Deleted]

I don't doubt discs raid healing ability it just costs a lot of mana to do what holy does inherently, if your going disc in a raid surely you should be one of the healers who is focused on the tanks, your atonements targets should include at least both tanks first then whoever else second.

Disc raid healing does cost a lot of mana, but managing it is the main thing the spec is about.
Your atonements will include tanks, but keeping it on only 1-2 targets will end you in terrible healing numbers, probably less than tanks do themselves. Atonement is powerful only when it's on a lot of targets (like @15-18), for single target it's rather terrible - if it was that strong, disc would be overpowered when putting up 15 of them.
If you're thinking about the mitigation you can do with PWS and smite absorb, you should know that both are pretty weak in terms of numbers. Decent disc priests have over 65% (and generally more) of their healing from atonement - but you won't get that by just keeping it on 2 targets.

[Popokolara]

fucking moody circle jerk in here.

Disc performs fine for me, I think it shines better in small groups, 5 mans definately, spike group damage, not that great, it has no instant cast aoe heals thats the draw back, down times while applying atonement.

my disc and holy specs are quite close to each other, my disc weap is 897, my holy weap is 910, I get a performance loss going disc because its not my main spec, what i've noticed is that fights with consistent ticking damage are not that fun to heal as disc, where as the holy pom spec laughs at that type of raid wide damage.

Excuse my sarcasm, it was indeed rude. I triggered on the "ofc i did, sure you can spam radiance and go oom or rely on innervates" comment which has been CONSTANTLY being proven wrong over the course of months of proof, results etc etc, and yet you would still disregard them and toss it as the opening sentence. I dont know what to call it.

Also "spike group damage, not that great," maybe i read it wrong but do you mean its lacking in dealing with spike damage because "it has no instant cast aoe heals thats the draw back"?

I will also repeat something i said but went without an answer: Why do you believe that divine hymn is less powerfull than hymn, or even compare them.

I also thought you said you will try Nh normal as disci, meaning you have not experienced it as disci yet, and that you have been doing m+content with him, can you correct me if i misunderstood?

[Heathy]

Disc raid healing does cost a lot of mana, but managing it is the main thing the spec is about.
Your atonements will include tanks, but keeping it on only 1-2 targets will end you in terrible healing numbers, probably less than tanks do themselves. Atonement is powerful only when it's on a lot of targets (like @15-18), for single target it's rather terrible - if it was that strong, disc would be overpowered when putting up 15 of them.
If you're thinking about the mitigation you can do with PWS and smite absorb, you should know that both are pretty weak in terms of numbers. Decent disc priests have over 65% (and generally more) of their healing from atonement - but you won't get that by just keeping it on 2 targets.

indeed totally i know that you can plea to 6 and then you swap to radiance, its a fun spec i'm not putting it down, i think it just bring something different to a raid, i actually promote more disc use, and would like to play the spec myself more often, i just find that a lot of the fights have some form of constant damage where pom does most of the work for you if you go holy.

[MendUS]

fucking moody circle jerk in here.

Disc performs fine for me, I think it shines better in small groups, 5 mans definately, spike group damage, not that great, it has no instant cast aoe heals thats the draw back, down times while applying atonement.

my disc and holy specs are quite close to each other, my disc weap is 897, my holy weap is 910, I get a performance loss going disc because its not my main spec, what i've noticed is that fights with consistent ticking damage are not that fun to heal as disc, where as the holy pom spec laughs at that type of raid wide damage. one example would be guarm. I would rather go pom spec and have sanctify and hymn, any day of the week over fucking around trying to atonement heal the whole raid.

Disc is ideal for encounters with constant AoE or burst AoE. You just adjust your playstyle accordingly. Again, like I've said, do some research before going into a raid then reporting back that Disc is bad. Playing the spec and understanding the spec are two completely separate things.

[Heathy]

Excuse my sarcasm, it was indeed rude. I triggered on the "ofc i did, sure you can spam radiance and go oom or rely on innervates" comment which has been CONSTANTLY being proven wrong over the course of months of proof, results etc etc, and yet you would still disregard them and toss it as the opening sentence. I dont know what to call it.

Also "spike group damage, not that great," maybe i read it wrong but do you mean its lacking in dealing with spike damage because "it has no instant cast aoe heals thats the draw back"?

I will also repeat something i said but went without an answer: Why do you believe that divine hymn is less powerfull than hymn, or even compare them.

I don't think its less powerful its just different, barrier would be good on a fight like krosus for slams, especially when your on the last chunk of bridge, but the range is small, it requires ppl to stand in it, it doesn't last very long and on its own it provides zero healing, where as hymn actually heals, and it gives a 10% increased healing from all sources. hymn is just much better in nearly every scenario where as barrier is more niche.

disc does struggle with group wide damage if your not ready for it, you can easily do enough damage while having 5 atonements up, if you have to use shadow fiend or halo, it can do good aoe healing it just requires atonement to be there, if you have to reapply atonement during spike damage it'll probably be a wipe. or it just gets to the point where all you can do is spot heal with shadow mend. which is shit aswell you might aswell be holy and spamming flash heal.

Disc is ideal for encounters with constant AoE or burst AoE. You just adjust your playstyle accordingly. Again, like I've said, do some research before going into a raid then reporting back that Disc is bad. Playing the spec and understanding the spec are two completely separate things.

I don't need to research mate i've played a priest for 12 years, the only thing i'm not entirely sure about is the talent choices, I only came in to really say that schism is great and i noticed that it helped quite a lot for on demand burst if you take a group wide aoe and you have atonement up on everyone the combination of schism and penance does heal for a lot.

don't need to go research when you can just play the game yourself and find out what works best for you, for me, if there is a fight where i have to spam radiance a lot or find that i'm going oom too fast from raid healing i'd most likely just swap to holy and the iwin pom build. as holy its not hard to get over 600k hps, ill have to see on friday what my disc numbers are like.