Death Knights in lore

[Friendlyimmolation]

Where do people get this idea from? Did I miss something or is that just something that someone pulled out of their arse and everyone is repeating that now?
They already feel incredible pain from not killing something for a while, so I have no idea why people claim that DKs feel no pain. In that case Forsaken wouldn't feel any pain, either.

forsaken have a very dulled sense of pain, I would assume Dks do too.

[Deleted]

arthas vs uther would have resulted in arthas losing in a 1v1 situation at the time, arthas was not stronger than uther at the time, uther however was the leader of the silver hand at the time, suppose thats the equivalent of highlord, he got swarmed with minions though, and that is why the dks will always win, they dont fight alone, theyll swarm their opponents with minions while attacking themselves

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I thought it fun when I clicked on Darion while doing the Corrupt Ashbringer quest and he says "we are driven by a single purpose: retribution".

Are you sure we can't be bros?

[Spiffums]

arthas vs uther would have resulted in arthas losing in a 1v1 situation at the time, arthas was not stronger than uther at the time, uther however was the leader of the silver hand at the time, suppose thats the equivalent of highlord, he got swarmed with minions though, and that is why the dks will always win, they dont fight alone, theyll swarm their opponents with minions while attacking themselves

Paladins don't fight alone either, they have the light.

[mickybrighteyes]

Paladins don't fight alone either, they have the light.

The light isn't always that useful and many paladins have been put in a spot where the light was lost to them... I believe this was one of the generations of death knights.

[Nero Stormchester]

In 1v1 , the Paladins win.
In an all out war , the Paladins win.
You silly death Knights are underestimating the power of the light, it always comes through in the end - whether it's on holy ground or at the heart of the scourge. Wings are a thing lorewise, so is bubble, so is hand of freedom and other protective shit . No matter what the death Knights throw at Paladins , Paladins can counter it and then smite those unholy abominations.
P.s.
There is also highlord with the Ashbringer in an all out war , who beats the death Lord with his remnants of Frostmourne

[Aquamonkey]

In 1v1 , the Paladins win.
In an all out war , the Paladins win.
You silly death Knights are underestimating the power of the light, it always comes through in the end - whether it's on holy ground or at the heart of the scourge. Wings are a thing lorewise, so is bubble, so is hand of freedom and other protective shit . No matter what the death Knights throw at Paladins , Paladins can counter it and then smite those unholy abominations.
P.s.
There is also highlord with the Ashbringer in an all out war , who beats the death Lord with his remnants of Frostmourne

Must be why the Alliance roflstomped the Horde in the 2nd War and the Scourge in the 3rd War.

[mickybrighteyes]

P.s.
There is also highlord with the Ashbringer in an all out war , who beats the death Lord with his remnants of Frostmourne

doesn't matter.

also comparing two very different tools. One was basically made to destroy undead. The other is something else.

Pallies have suberb defensive skills, and some clutch offense tricks. DK have some serious offense to remember. Unless you want to assume that they have the same shackles as present in game and can only throw about 20~ undead at a time (instead of the contents of a nearby graveyard/mass grave).

Pointless debate though. who would win would largely depend on what lore rules are being followed and location or extra shit... On one hand you have a force that doesn't need to eat/sleep/etc and the other side still requires basic life related shit.

[Nero Stormchester]

doesn't matter.

also comparing two very different tools. One was basically made to destroy undead. The other is something else.

Pallies have suberb defensive skills, and some clutch offense tricks. DK have some serious offense to remember. Unless you want to assume that they have the same shackles as present in game and can only throw about 20~ undead at a time (instead of the contents of a nearby graveyard/mass grave).

Pointless debate though. who would win would largely depend on what lore rules are being followed and location or extra shit... On one hand you have a force that doesn't need to eat/sleep/etc and the other side still requires basic life related shit.

I agree. This is all highly hypothetical and purely speculation, with an incredible amount of factors that can effect the outcome. It's just I mained my pally from BC to WoD, and he's still my main alt in legion - so I'm showing bias also I don't think the fight would last long enough for DK's ability to not eat or rest, to shine. And if it was to last that long , I'm sure the light would come through for the paladin, overcoming things such as hunger or fatigue.

- - - Updated - - -

Must be why the Alliance roflstomped the Horde in the 2nd War and the Scourge in the 3rd War.

These were silly Paladins of the past , there's a new highlord in town and he's getting shit done.

[mickybrighteyes]

I agree. This is all highly hypothetical and purely speculation, with an incredible amount of factors that can effect the outcome. It's just I mained my pally from BC to WoD, and he's still my main alt in legion - so I'm showing bias also I don't think the fight would last long enough for DK's ability to not eat or rest, to shine. And if it was to last that long , I'm sure the light would come through for the paladin, overcoming things such as hunger or fatigue.

You overestimate the power of the light to stave off such things as fatigue and hunger. I mean, it states in lore that it can; but not indefinitely.

You're examples are more in line with the idea that the two groups just throw down and lay into each other at top form with and at peak ability... well more like the paladin's peak ability. The DK would edge out as more plans are made and a foundation is set. Corrupting the land, turning a town of people into fodder hordes, cutting off supply lines... the power of the DK spells lies in some areas not explicitly shown often in game. We, the players more so look at dmg and appearance and forget how somethings might also play out (long term effects to the over exposure of Fel as an example). Arguably a DK can run around spreading death and decay and desecrate an area with plagues. A pally can do a similar feat with cleansing disease/poisons and consecrating areas, but that type of thinking tends to favor the aggressive party rather than the defensive one.

IMO a handful of DK's would be able to force a fighting force of paladin into a corner and start making the paladin re-evaluate their power and thus turn them against each other. Effectively culling weaker paladin from the ranks and maybe netting a few mid-grade pallies as recruited deathknights (either by raising fallen pallies or getting some straight up converts). But that really depends on which lore rules are remembered and followed.

[Phunkle]

It's easy to tell who plays a DK or a Paladin in here, based on the arguments you guys brought up.

This turned into a "My dad could beat up your dad'-situation real fast.

[Aucald]

I would say Paladins and Death Knights are pretty equally matched on an individual level (stripped of context) - the Light and the Shadow which empowers each class respectively are two sides of a mostly dualistic coin. The Light is a Death Knight's fundamental weakness, disrupting their abilities and combating the source of their powers. But a Paladin can be compromised in their faith in the Light (disrupting their power), and Death Knights often embody the perversion of purpose and overall cruelty to accomplish that goal.

[Brightamethyst]

Like others have said, it depends a lot on the situation.

In a 1v1 situation, assuming about equal strength parties with no outside influence, I give paladin the win. Paladins are specifically designed to combat the undead. The DK would be greatly harmed by The Light, while the paladin is mostly immune to, or able to counter many of the DKs tricks.

In an army setting, I give DKs the win. Long drawn out battles only help the undead. The undead don't tire, and every enemy slain becomes a new undead soldier. Unless the paladins could deal a massive crushing blow very early on, there's no way the DKs aren't coming out on top here.

That all assumes about equal strength and no other factors though. A horseman would annihilate a random paladin, who could in turn easily defeat a newly risen initiate, etc. A handful of DKs could hold the Acherus against an army, simply because it's literally a floating death fortress. Meanwhile, DKs are at a large disadvantage in the presence of a powerful Light artifact (Ashbringer) or on holy ground. (If Light's Hope Chapel hadn't been practically empty at the time, the DKs would barely have made it through the door.)

[Deleted]

spoiler for dk campaign here




during the final mission the dk's succesfully assault the paladin stronghold to ressurect tirion, though "the light" wont allow the ressurection of him, we have no problem suppressing the paladins.

so dks would win handsdown in an allout battle

While all the strongest Paladins except Liadrin were out on a mission.

And the Death Knights still lost. They couldn't complete their Mission and Mograine died.

[mickybrighteyes]

Oh right, another thing the class hall campaign showed for DK was that apparently some DK can train in some form of mass teleportation to return to base....

good luck pressing the attack on a foe that can slip away like that.

[Deleted]

I think Paladins are, lorewise, counter to DK, whereas a DK could be stronger than any similar mage, warrior, rogue or even powerful beings like Druids and Warlocks (all time speaking about lorewise), Paladins light would protect them from DK and also would do serious harm to DKs. Paladins could also consecreate the ground which should render DK minions useless.

So in short, Paladins should win easy to DK due to the light being extra useful against this foe, as the same reasoning a Demon Hunter would have the upper hand against a similar powerful demon.

[Nnyco]

dk would just throw endless waves of ghouls towards the paladin until they are exhausted, considerin what we seen at lights hope the more simpler paladins struggle already vs 2-3ghouls

[mickybrighteyes]

They really need to clear up some lore on what exactly death knights can raise and control. Ghouls, Gheist, Abominations, Frostwyrms, Gargoyles, and Valkyr? Yeah teh player can get a few of these but it's not like every DK is able to produce them... Maybe Ghouls and Gheist with a Gargoyle here and there with some abominations once in awhile. Also how cannon are those winged steeds of the ebon blade (aka bone chickens). And is there a limit on control the average DK can have on these things?

[Aquamonkey]

DKs can raise abominations and frostwyrms?

[mickybrighteyes]

Abominations are what player DK can convert their standard ghoul into and some dk npc's have shown the ability to create abominations if materials are provided. In the past, abominations could also appear among the army of the dead minions but I previously just assumed it was an appearance thing only. Since some npc's have shown the ability to create and control abominations to a degree it makes me wonder how often that occurs.

As for Frostwyrms. They aren't gone and the player DK can unlock the ability to call out one for a fly-by so I have to wonder if the various DK are still able to bring out a few under the control or if they're all secure under Bolvar's control only.