12 million more migrants planned for Germany

[Combatbutler]

Well they are allowed to take up work. But they dont. Theres plenty of data as well as reports on that already.
How is an influx of people, many of which dont even want to take up jobs that require sacrifice and hard work, even more that arent qualified for work that isnt subsidized and a vast majority that will not be employable in a self sustaining fashion a good thing for Germany?

Most of the refugees will be gone in ca 10 years and those who were able to stick around after that time will most likely get proper immigration status. Will it cost a lot of money, yeah it will.

[Runenwächter]

German is my first language, so i guess i probably understand german.

Gut, dann wirst du wissen, dass wir zwar Gesetze haben, die in der Theorie die Einwanderung regeln, aber keine solchen, die die Spielregeln zur Anwerbung ausländischer Fachkräfte festlegen oder beschleunigen, wie etwa das Greencard System. Wir tun uns auch schwer damit jene, die einmal hier sind und sich nicht als Gewinn für unsere Gemeinschaft erweisen wieder los zu werden.

Wir haben ausserdem keinen Filter, der die Einwanderung in absoluter Zahl begrenzt oder daran ausrichtet, welchen wirklichen Bedarf am Arbeitsmarkt es gibt und jene fördert die unser Arbeitsmarkt braucht, während es andere, die er nicht braucht und auf absehbare Zeit nicht brauchen wird, draussen hält.

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Most of the refugees will be gone in ca 10 years and those who were able to stick around after that time will most likely get proper immigration status. Will it cost a lot of money, yeah it will.

What is the basis of the assumption that in 10 years they will be gone? Because the projections Ive seen from the left and the right alike state the opposite.

[Deleted]

Most of the refugees will be gone in ca 10 years and those who were able to stick around after that time will most likely get proper immigration status. Will it cost a lot of money, yeah it will.

Wishful thinking.

[Runenwächter]

Maybe I should have expressed myself clear. I do not see much connection between needing 300.000 (or more) immigrants and an influx of refugees. Some of those 300k can be refugees if they qualify or will be educated to qualify for the vacant jobs. I would try to seperate the immigration 'system' (you could argue that Germany has none) and the asylum system. The first one is there to fill those vacant jobs and create a relative demographic stability, the other is there to help people in need. The asylum system is not there to satisfy our own interests.
Nevertheless, most of the asylum seekers are quite young. So we can take the chance and try to educate them as best as we can. We do not only need doctors, professors and IT experts, we also need craftsmen, geriatric nurses etc.

I wholeheartedly agree then.

Well except for the last paragraph, I am very very sceptical about our possibility to succeed with anyone older than 10-12. Not because you cant catch up on the knowledge, but other factors. You can get psychologists and experienced educators to explain this far better than I ever could.

[Deleted]

I have a very simple and radical solution to this problem: Have more children.

The most interesting thing is, it makes three things very clear:

- For these officials, people are nothing but numbers on a sheet of paper. They never factor in things such as culture, religion, ethics etc. Which is why they tend to produce a huge mess.

- They completely missed that migration does not actually solve these issues. It merely means that you "put them off" temporarily at best. Ultimatively you end up in the same situation except with a larger overall population. Which means even more migration would be necessary.

- They utterly missed what a failure it was so far. Around 80% or more of Turkish 3.rd generation migrants in cities such as Berlin, Bremen etc do not even finish basic education. Most of the recent arrivals will likely need welfare for decades if not forever. This comes back to the first point. They are not seeing the differences between these people but merely extrapolating from the natives in the countries, expecting the migrants to be the exact same education wise. Rather than solving any issues, they are creating new ones atop the old ones.

[Mayhem]

Gut, dann wirst du wissen, dass wir zwar Gesetze haben, die in der Theorie die Einwanderung regeln, aber keine solchen, die die Spielregeln zur Anwerbung ausländischer Fachkräfte festlegen oder beschleunigen, wie etwa das Greencard System. Wir tun uns auch schwer damit jene, die einmal hier sind und sich nicht als Gewinn für unsere Gemeinschaft erweisen wieder los zu werden.

Wir haben ausserdem keinen Filter, der die Einwanderung in absoluter Zahl begrenzt oder daran ausrichtet, welchen wirklichen Bedarf am Arbeitsmarkt es gibt und jene fördert die unser Arbeitsmarkt braucht, während es andere, die er nicht braucht und auf absehbare Zeit nicht brauchen wird, draussen hält.

Ich hab gesagt ich kann Deutsch, nicht das ich Deutscher bin. Also, nein das weiß ich nicht. Es gibt keine Regelungen für EU-Ausländer? Macht da mal was. :P

[Deleted]

Germans have to major issues:

1) Native population is shrinking
2) Germans are too well educated and not willing to do the shit work

Result:

In 20 years there will be a drastic shortage of labor forces for the jobs, no one german wants do to: Bus drivers, trash collecting, professional cleaning of all types, elderly care, construction jobs and so on.

Germany NEEDS refugees to do all this work for them. It's really not about "oh my dear those poor traumatized war refugees! sail in the save harbor welcome come!".

Are you serious?

You do understand that millions of jobs will be lost due to technology advancing right?

WE DO NOT NEED LOW SKILL LABOR AT ALL.

[Combatbutler]

What is the basis of the assumption that in 10 years they will be gone? Because the projections Ive seen from the left and the right alike state the opposite.

Because we are talking about refugees not immigrants, most of them won't get a job due to lacking official qualifications and the language barrier, making them a big net drain so unless they intend to make them a tool to control the population, shifting blame in their direction while kicking some unpopular laws through. I see little reason why they could remain that long, ultimately the most important factor is whether their country of origin will be labelled safe by then, if it is getting rid of them is not nearly as difficult as it is now.

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Are you serious?

You do understand that millions of jobs will be lost due to technology advancing right?

WE DO NOT NEED LOW SKILL LABOR AT ALL.

The article is not about low skill workers though, but then again the entirety of society needs to change in the next decades otherwise everything goes to hell, but I doubt the politicians around the globe are capable enough to stem the coming tide, so enjoy the ride ;P

[Mayhem]

The article is not about low skill workers though, but then again the entirety of society needs to change in the next decades otherwise everything goes to hell, but I doubt the politicians around the globe are capable enough to stem the coming tide, so enjoy the ride ;P

Nor are the people who stick to "you have to work 40 hours a week to be able to sustain yourself". Let´s see who gets it first.

[Deleted]

The article is not about low skill workers though, but then again the entirety of society needs to change in the next decades otherwise everything goes to hell, but I doubt the politicians around the globe are capable enough to stem the coming tide, so enjoy the ride ;P

The guy I quoted was talking about refugees who have a terrible terrible employment rate and those who do get work are working low skilled labor.

Germany has a very high population density and it is causing issues left right and center. Technology will make most jobs obsolete in the next 50 years and a shrinking society would be a good thing then.

[Baltasar]

Add em at once place and fucking boom em.

[Mayhem]

Germany has a very high population density and it is causing issues left right and center. Technology will make most jobs obsolete in the next 50 years and a shrinking society would be a good thing then.

Only if you change the system... but if you do change the system your argument is void. So nope.

[Noradin]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...sis-12-million


What do you think about this, will it be good or bad in the long term?

I think you are misrepresenting this.

First, this was about something presented to them, not something they have "planned" or "proposed".

Secondly, talking about 12 million is dishonest. The data showed that 300000 a year would be needed to offset the population decrease, if nothing changed over 40 years.

Can you predict the future? For 40 years in advance?

[Combatbutler]

Germany has a very high population density and it is causing issues left right and center. Technology will make most jobs obsolete in the next 50 years and a shrinking society would be a good thing then.

Considering there are no plans for the new tide of unemployed, it does not really matter, millions of people will lose their job and those that still have one, won't be able to sustain the healthcare system, public education, infrastructure, social safety nets etc. So unless all of it is properly redesigned the whole thing will come down in a few decades.

[Deleted]

Only if you change the system... but if you do change the system your argument is void. So nope.

The system has to be change or it will explode and Germany will end up in ruin.
Those are the only two options.

When 20 millions of jobs are obsolete and all those people are unemployed.......shit will hit the fan quickly.

[Combatbutler]

The system has to be change or it will explode and Germany will end up in ruin.
Those are the only two options.

When 20 millions of jobs are obsolete and all those people are unemployed.......shit will hit the fan quickly.

It is not only a german problem, but rather a global one, capitalism itself needs to change or everything will collapse at one point.

[Noradin]

I have a very simple and radical solution to this problem: Have more children.

Yes, that would work.

It would also help if people stopped mistaking a projection from government advisors with a plan of the government, especially one spanning 40 years. Pretending this is a done for deal is simply dishonest.

It would also be great if people stopped conflating "migrants" with "muslim refugees" and paint them as "invaders".

[Deleted]

Are you serious?

You do understand that millions of jobs will be lost due to technology advancing right?

WE DO NOT NEED LOW SKILL LABOR AT ALL.

Lol are YOU serious?

Do you think computers and robots will drive buses, build houses, clean your desk at work and wipe your grandma's ass anytime soon?

[Noradin]

Proof that it's made up shit? People said it wouldn't be so many in 2015 but then millions upon millions came to europe. No reason to believe this will be any different.

It is in the article.
It is a projection that if nothing changes over the next 40 years, then 300000 migrants (from Austria for example) would be needed to offset population decline.
Instead the OP presented it in a way that people her apparently take to mean 12 million muslim refugees will be invited to invade this year.

[Cuppy]

Are you serious?

You do understand that millions of jobs will be lost due to technology advancing right?

WE DO NOT NEED LOW SKILL LABOR AT ALL.

You realize around 95% of the whole population is at low skill labor level atm?
When technology hits this level, I personally guarantee that these 12 million refugees are not a problem at that point. Not in Germany, not in the whole world.
6-7 Billion people in the whole world. Billion is 1000 million. 12 million is nothing. Nothing.