New bluepost regarding unholy Dk performance.

[Beefkow]

I decided to reroll towards survival hunter.

Sick and tired of being last place in performance and damage. Buff every class that's performing average and just leave UH dk in the dust.

Unholy spec can go rot in a corner, literately.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

The best I can honestly do for both myself and my guild it to shelve it until 7.2 in hopes of damage buffs and reroll something else which can tow the line as far as progression is concerned. I benched myself on our Star Auger progression tonight after a couple nights of work and they were able to finish it without issue.

We're not a great guild by any means but there's always room for improvement and right now that improvement can come in the form of a Subtlety Rogue or Fury Warrior until we're on farm.

[Nayami]

Other than an increase in performance, Unholy DKs needs some QoL fixes for sure.

Every time I'm in a Mythic+ run I'm always afraid that some Shambling Horror will spawn and pull an extra pack and wipe us, same shit with Apocalypse since ghouls spawn so far away from your target. It would be nice if instead, the Shambling Horror rises from the ground below your target and Apocalypse summons ghouls near and around your target instead of ~10 yards around it in random spots.

Could also have Scourge of Worlds proc not being overwritten since sometimes it's so hard to get one to proc and you end up overwriting it because you had to Death Coil to regen some runes.

Double doom is pretty useless, it just makes it take even longer to dump our RP that we generate so much of. Should be reworked to something else like shooting two Death Coils together for the cost of one when used with a Sudden Doom proc. Would also be nice to have Death Coil increased to cost 40RP so we can dump our RP faster.

Sludge Belcher is still a DPS increase thanks to it's AoE being 360deg while the standard ghoul's AoE is only 180deg. This makes taking Asphyxiate feel bad, especially if you're running Bursting Sores and Infected Claws. Feels like something that should have been fixed a long time ago.

Epidemic is also pretty useless right now. I can see it being useful if it cost RP instead of a rune as it wouldn't mess with our application of Festering Wounds and DnD+SS spam combo.

[Rixarius]

I don't think that Unholy even feels good to play right now. Even if it did good DPS.

During lust, you are resource capped constantly. Even if this isn't an actual issue, it feels bad. You can't drop Sudden Doom procs fast enough. And then outside of lust, you'll often find yourself sitting there for a couple seconds at a time without a button to push. High peaks and low valleys of activity. Death Coil, even after the buff, still feels like a tax on the spec. You get it when you don't need it and you don't get it when you do. There needs to be some serious change to how we build and dump resources I think.

And then you look at the talent changes coming in the future, and it just makes resource management even harder. Having more rune generation at times when we don't actually need it. Apoc giving 3 runes is bad because you'll always soul reaper with Apoc and won't need the extra resources during that time. I would like to see, somehow, for some of the resources we get during lust to be toned down and give more to do outside of it.

[Deleted]

I don't think that Unholy even feels good to play right now. Even if it did good DPS.

During lust, you are resource capped constantly. Even if this isn't an actual issue, it feels bad. You can't drop Sudden Doom procs fast enough. And then outside of lust, you'll often find yourself sitting there for a couple seconds at a time without a button to push. High peaks and low valleys of activity. Death Coil, even after the buff, still feels like a tax on the spec. You get it when you don't need it and you don't get it when you do. There needs to be some serious change to how we build and dump resources I think.

And then you look at the talent changes coming in the future, and it just makes resource management even harder. Having more rune generation at times when we don't actually need it. Apoc giving 3 runes is bad because you'll always soul reaper with Apoc and won't need the extra resources during that time. I would like to see, somehow, for some of the resources we get during lust to be toned down and give more to do outside of it.

Haste doesn´t affect downtime at all though.
If you are always capping during bloodlust, then you are just not pressing the button fast enough. Yes, you generate 30% more ressources, but you also can spend them 30% faster so in the end downtime doesn´t change no matter what the haste level is.

That being said, ressource capping is a real problem of UH (even though its not tied to haste). Too much ressource generation is tied to RNG. Mostly from runic corruption proccs, but also from bursting wounds (further enhanced by the 2set).

To me the only solution would be to remove the RP gain from bursting wounds (and boost wound dmg to compensate) and making runic corruption a 50% increase instead of a 100% increase with a doubled proccchance.

[Slim1256]

The problem is Blizzard clearly said that they were NOT going to change up the specs were one becomes stronger than the other leaving the other spec in the dust as it were.

So that's one problem, development team failed us.

Number two is you can't just switch like you could in warlords. Unless you play a ridiculous amount it's not feasible to have two specs at max artifact, proper relics and then in some cases a completely different gear set on top of Rng legendaries.

It feels bad, especially when these concerns were made during beta time and time again. They claim to listen, but I've yet to see any action resulting from it.

I made a post about this yesterday on the Blizz forums... would love to get people in there providing constructive feedback:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753188089#1

Not that I have hope that it'll change anything, but the more people chiming in with reasonable constructive criticism, the better chance we have.

[Rixarius]

Haste doesn´t affect downtime at all though.
If you are always capping during bloodlust, then you are just not pressing the button fast enough. Yes, you generate 30% more ressources, but you also can spend them 30% faster so in the end downtime doesn´t change no matter what the haste level is.

That being said, ressource capping is a real problem of UH (even though its not tied to haste). Too much ressource generation is tied to RNG. Mostly from runic corruption proccs, but also from bursting wounds (further enhanced by the 2set).

To me the only solution would be to remove the RP gain from bursting wounds (and boost wound dmg to compensate) and making runic corruption a 50% increase instead of a 100% increase with a doubled proccchance.

The real problem with haste and downtime is sudden doom. Attacking faster= more sudden doom procs. They stack up to 2 with the artifact trait, which means that you can get one after another while trying to uncap which is the worst feeling. In theory haste doesn't change anything except the speed of your rotation, but in practice it's frustrating to play. Especially because of how slow UH is outside of SR/Lust. Not nearly as bad with the 4 set, but still just feels bad.

[Kendros]

I made a post about this yesterday on the Blizz forums... would love to get people in there providing constructive feedback:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753188089#1

Not that I have hope that it'll change anything, but the more people chiming in with reasonable constructive criticism, the better chance we have.

I have one too with some realistic feedback, get in there and give your 2 cents.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=2#post-21

[Raiz]

Sudden doom procs should be instantly cast. Would solve a lot of overcapping issues. Anyway, there are so many solutions but I'd really really like if blizzard did something about the overflowing ressources we generate. And with the new traits coming, I just don't see how we'll be preventing them... Even having the right to choose which legendary we get could solve this issue (*cough* bracers *cough*).

[Deleted]

I find that if I play with infected claw, then yes, my resources at times cannot be spent quick enough. With necrosis, I'm lucky to have enough resources for my SR and 3xCS. I don't have the bracers... I would imagine this would change my rotation somewhat.

[Protean]

Is it not enough that we have a spec that is one of the best in the current tier? Why try and fuck up something good that DKs finally have and complain that we arent good enough. Like seriously what do you want from them? Frost is the best spec in the game and UH is in the middle of the pack. Dont we want to be middle of the back?

Stop trying to paint this picture of DKs being shit when in fact they arent. Stop asking for buffs when none are needed.

I question the opinions of people who thinks BoS is a more fun or challenging spec than Unholy, when looking away from raw damage output.

[Poisongaz]

I question the opinions of people who thinks BoS is a more fun or challenging spec than Unholy, when looking away from raw damage output.

whether or not someone finds it fun is subjective so thats a thing. Also in what world is UH, as a whole, more challenging than playing BoS? Any fuck up with BoS either fucks you over because you drop breath, or you can recover but the process of recovering gimps your dmg by a shit ton. The old build for frost was mind numbing and boring af. But BoS actually give you some depth and forces you to actually think about what button to press. UH is just build wounds and then pop runes, There is some depth when it comes to pre pooling wounds and runes for SA but outside of that it is mostly reacting to the rng of festering wound applications. Why do people think that is challenging.

[Protean]

whether or not someone finds it fun is subjective so thats a thing. Also in what world is UH, as a whole, more challenging than playing BoS? Any fuck up with BoS either fucks you over because you drop breath, or you can recover but the process of recovering gimps your dmg by a shit ton. The old build for frost was mind numbing and boring af. But BoS actually give you some depth and forces you to actually think about what button to press. UH is just build wounds and then pop runes, There is some depth when it comes to pre pooling wounds and runes for SA but outside of that it is mostly reacting to the rng of festering wound applications. Why do people think that is challenging.

Same way I question the opinions of people who thinks feces tastes good. I mean it's their opinions and they're entitled to it, but I'm going to think less of them for it.


Frost is still mindnumbing as soon as your breath is over.

Unholy has the challenge of not wasting resources the entire time. Knowing when to SS/CS and when to deathcoil, and when to build resources is a new decision every global. Pet management adds another layer that frost can't hope to compete with.

[Poisongaz]

Same way I question the opinions of people who thinks feces tastes good. I mean it's their opinions and they're entitled to it, but I'm going to think less of them for it.


Frost is still mindnumbing as soon as your breath is over.

Unholy has the challenge of not wasting resources the entire time. Knowing when to SS/CS and when to deathcoil, and when to build resources is a new decision every global. Pet management adds another layer that frost can't hope to compete with.

Im glad you actually only read the first sentence of my post and just casually related me to someone that eats shit because I found a different spec more fun and more rewarding. Also in practice UH is really really straight forward. Build wounds with FS and pop them with CS. Use DC to get runes back and in the process hope that some of them give you runes. Rinse and repeat. You not going to be able to convince me otherwise. I played UH for almost all of EN until i got good frost legendary items. I understand how to play both specs at a high lvl, which I doubt most people can say.

I PREFER something more consistent and something that more reflects my skill as a player and that is exactly what BoS provides. There is a big skill cap between players using BoS, which is why i think a lot of people dont like the talent. I also like BoS because it makes the class feel less like a builder spender, like every other class in this game.

[Noxinator]

#53 So you think less of people for playing a different spec than you and enjoying it? You seem like an open-minded person

[Protean]

Im glad you actually only read the first sentence of my post and just casually related me to someone that eats shit because I found a different spec more fun and more rewarding. Also in practice UH is really really straight forward. Build wounds with FS and pop them with CS. Use DC to get runes back and in the process hope that some of them give you runes. Rinse and repeat. You not going to be able to convince me otherwise. I played UH for almost all of EN until i got good frost legendary items. I understand how to play both specs at a high lvl, which I doubt most people can say.

I PREFER something more consistent and something that more reflects my skill as a player and that is exactly what BoS provides. There is a big skill cap between players using BoS, which is why i think a lot of people dont like the talent. I also like BoS because it makes the class feel less like a builder spender, like every other class in this game.

Sounds like you need to learn the difference between comparing someone to something and comparing an action to another action.

I was drawing parallels to my distrust to opinions of someone who engages in practices I disagree with. Not saying "you're like someone who eats shit".



That said, BoS spec is even simpler. It's literally POP EVERYTHING, mash obliterate every time you have less than [max runic power minus 2 runes worth of RP]

At least with unholy you have to reevaluate what you're doing every global, not just react with howling blast and use a cooldown once runes stop flowing.

[Deleted]

People pretend their spec is more difficult to play then the other one in wow 2017. lulz

[hasslehoof]

People pretend their spec is more difficult to play then the other one in wow 2017. lulz

dk is very hard class pls no damage my ego

[Deleted]

Neither spec is rocket surgery. Unholy does seem to have more options.

Thats not to say frost can't also be fun and rewarding.

Im pretty much holy for the expansion. Im sort of used to hoping for never appearing buffs.

[bungie]

Is it not enough that we have a spec that is one of the best in the current tier? Why try and fuck up something good that DKs finally have and complain that we arent good enough. Like seriously what do you want from them? Frost is the best spec in the game and UH is in the middle of the pack. Dont we want to be middle of the back?

Stop trying to paint this picture of DKs being shit when in fact they arent. Stop asking for buffs when none are needed.

Unholy is garbage right now. You're dumb.