So I killed Gul'dan tonight for first time...

[Matthias]

Normal Mode this expansion feels closer to LFR then it did in previous ones. I go into a Normal Pug expecting to 1 shot everything. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad.

It's more dangerous then LFR (though I haven't done LFR since MoP) but I'm not sure if it's challenging enough to spark an interest in raiding for more casual players, since most pugs can just roll it.

What keeps me playing is the ever persistent progression of WoW. I like seeing my ilvl grow, and I like seeing my DPS increase or Durability if tanking, while talking up a big game with my friends.

I will say killing Heroic Gul'dan in a pug was very satisfying for since it took me a number of attempts. It was satisfying taking down Heroic Helya in a pug pre-nerf also. The way you progress in learning the in's and out's of encounters and thus start using your abilities optimally and perhaps even assisting the raid leader with call outs, or raid leading yourself. etc.

[kamuimac]

Normal mode is just underwhelming, that's why I don't really do it outside of the first week or on alts. What motivates me to play further is to push to kill challenging content.

"normal mode is underwhelming when i go in there with my buddies all overgearing instance on day one by 20 itlv its so easy lol lol "

do notmal at intended itlv aka whole raid group at +/-860 and then talk how "easy" stuff is

[klaps_05]

normal modes arent even really tested on PTR anymore, it starts at heroic. If you were doing normal/flex raids until MOP you can steamroll heroic now.

[Rusque]

Please take into account your own, and the raid's, average ilvl before claiming things are "easy" or "hard". Then account how many FotM classes there were (or if your raid avoids bringing melee so they can cheese mechanics easier).

Most players went into Normal with equal or higher ilvl than the gear drops. The struggle is less numerical, but exposure related.

Heroic is barely harder than Normal mechanically, but most players will be going into Heroic with lower than or equal to the first three boss drops. The struggle is numerical (unless the entire raid has 4-pc, BiS legendaries, and BiS trinkets at which point you might as well start attempting Mythic), unless people give into a "if I can't cheese it, it's unbeatable" mindset.

This is more likely than Gul'dan being easy (a month after being released btw). How many groups are looking for 880 or 885+? Killing the last boss of a tier with people dropping 500k-600k dps is going to be much easier than with people in 865-870 gear doing 400-450k dps or if they don't have BIS legendaries, 300-350k dps. Those empowered eyes are waaaay harder when no one is pulling over 400k.

[Nanaboostme]

From a casual player's perspective, Guldan is the true final boss of WoW Legion Expansion because i'ts something that we've been building up with anticipation through major quests and cinematics. I dont consider Kil'jaden or Archimonde in that facility because they were never introduced for a setup or anticipation but rather more of a last-minute surprise. You'd also have to reach the last stage of the raids in order to experience anything directly in that nature.

I started WoW during WotlK so The Lich King was my personal major villain of WoW that I really understood. They released the 3 dungeons that gave the anticipation and suspense of Lich King and if anything, the whole expansion and a successful anticipation into the final raid of the expansion. That ideal aspect of the game has been depleted since Mists of Pandaria

[Deleted]

Yes I know Im way behind others doing mythic Nighthold and what not, but for me killing Gul'dan (normal) and getting my Nighthold tiger mount was pretty much end-game. I have little interest in harder modes. I was just so surprised how easy it was.

I am kinda underwhelmed, in past expansions I wouldn't kill the last boss for literally months. And on my first try tonight it is all done and dusted.


Thats it? Im just wondering what motivates you pro guys to play more past this point? Cheers.

Sigh.... i really need to answer this? Isn't it obvious?

Guldan (or any boss) normal is no more the "last boss". Yeah, in a roleplay point of view it is, but gameplay? Oh no. The last mythic boss is the real last boss now, at least in term of challenge.

If you wanna think from a roleplay, fantasy point of view, just imagine that Gul'Dan is defeated but manage to get away and comes back more and more powerful (heroic and mythic).

- - - Updated - - -

Great replies, appreciate it. I can see how people enjoy challenging themselves with harder modes and having fun raiding with friends, it looks like this is my only option if I plan to continue. It still feels I am finished. Cheers.

And this is nothing wrong. I mean, Wow is different now. You feel like you have finished? Good, just unsub and come back next tier! Catch up mechanism are faster then ever, and not punsihing if your goal is only normal raiding!

Sometimes if feels like WoW is the only game or hobby around....

[Hctaz]

Yes I know Im way behind others doing mythic Nighthold and what not, but for me killing Gul'dan (normal) and getting my Nighthold tiger mount was pretty much end-game. I have little interest in harder modes. I was just so surprised how easy it was.

I am kinda underwhelmed, in past expansions I wouldn't kill the last boss for literally months. And on my first try tonight it is all done and dusted.


Thats it? Im just wondering what motivates you pro guys to play more past this point? Cheers.

Well... do you realize that Normal mode in WoD and in Legion is an easier difficulty than in the previous expansions? Normal mode used to be something that was harder for casual players. MoP introduced a new difficulty called "Flexible" that was easier than normal mode. For WoD, they changed Flexible to be called Normal, Normal to be called heroic, and heroic to be called Mythic. So... if you're used to taking months to kill the normal mode bosses from Wrath/Cata/MoP this is why.

TL;DR Heroic mode in WoD and Legion is what Normal mode used to be in past expansions.


Also to answer your question on what motivates us to progress to higher difficulties: There are many reasons. There's a lot more prestige associated with downing harder level bosses. There are better cosmetic rewards as well. Mythic Gul'dan drops a red infernal mount that you can only get by downing him on that difficulty. There's also usually a title associated with it as well as an "Ahead of the Curve" achievement for killing him on Mythic which is only obtained during the time the raid was current. For example, if you kill Mythic Xavius right now today you cannot obtain the "Ahead of the Curve: Mythic Xavius" achievement.

[Ichifails]

"normal mode is underwhelming when i go in there with my buddies all overgearing instance on day one by 20 itlv its so easy lol lol "

do notmal at intended itlv aka whole raid group at +/-860 and then talk how "easy" stuff is

It has close to no mechanics so day old alts could clear it. We cleared Heroic before the characters of people were a week old and we're a pretty casual 2 day/~7 hour raid guild.

Thats it? Im just wondering what motivates you pro guys to play more past this point? Cheers.

Doing stuff where you don't have to use your head at all and you can kill blindfold isn't really everyone's cup of tea.

[Deleted]

If it is so easy I might try and drop in and kill it. Not really tried thus far, just been doing 5mans.

[Deleted]

Yes I know Im way behind others doing mythic Nighthold and what not, but for me killing Gul'dan (normal) and getting my Nighthold tiger mount was pretty much end-game. I have little interest in harder modes. I was just so surprised how easy it was.

I am kinda underwhelmed, in past expansions I wouldn't kill the last boss for literally months. And on my first try tonight it is all done and dusted.


Thats it? Im just wondering what motivates you pro guys to play more past this point? Cheers.

You only killed it because of how ilvl works in Legion. You can easily outgear normal raids without even setting foot inside. It's also much easier to get into good groups compared to past expansion simply because you have higher ilvl. The ilvl you see in the group finder is the ilvl of gear in your bags which by the way takes into account all legendaries. So you can imagine someone with more than 4 legendaries has a ridiculous high ilvl. That's just a flaw in the system at the moment and I hope it gets fixed.

In conclusion no normal boss is ever hard. Archimonde wasn't hard, Blackhand wasn't hard, Imperator wasn't that hard. You just had a harder time getting the gear needed to kill it. Basically normal is organised LFR.

[xact4]

If it is so easy I might try and drop in and kill it. Not really tried thus far, just been doing 5mans.

Don't take anything people here say at face value when it comes to things like this. Thread is so full of over-inflated ego it'd be funny if it weren't so cringe. Nighthold is not easy. It's do-able.. when -=everyone=- in the group plays well, is geared appropriately, and knows the fights. It's super cool that everyone here has a group of people that have all those things they can run with, but if you do not, the place shows 0 mercy.

Not trying to discourage you, but don't take these peoples word for the level of difficulty you'll be experiencing.

[Queen of Hamsters]

If you're gonna whine about difficulty while not being willing to step it up from Normal, what fucking hope is there?

That is basically always the case whenever people attack raiding in some shape or form (usually LFR which isn't raiding but hey)... I never understood the mentality of whining about "lack of difficulty" when doing modes that aren't tuned to BE the most difficult...

- - - Updated - - -

Don't take anything people here say at face value when it comes to things like this. Thread is so full of over-inflated ego it'd be funny if it weren't so cringe. Nighthold is not easy. It's do-able.. when -=everyone=- in the group plays well, is geared appropriately, and knows the fights. It's super cool that everyone here has a group of people that have all those things they can run with, but if you do not, the place shows 0 mercy.

Not trying to discourage you, but don't take these peoples word for the level of difficulty you'll be experiencing.

Exactly. Lots of people sporting an attitude of "I'll do the lowest difficulty and then sneer at those bothering to go higher up since it's SO easy... on Normal..."... maybe that were always the case, but I don't think 4 raid difficulties lowers this trend.

[Gorsameth]

Yes I know Im way behind others doing mythic Nighthold and what not, but for me killing Gul'dan (normal) and getting my Nighthold tiger mount was pretty much end-game. I have little interest in harder modes. I was just so surprised how easy it was.

I am kinda underwhelmed, in past expansions I wouldn't kill the last boss for literally months. And on my first try tonight it is all done and dusted.


Thats it? Im just wondering what motivates you pro guys to play more past this point? Cheers.

It took you a month to do the easiest difficulty (LFR really doesn't count as a difficulty, its a sight seeing tour)
Like...
How do you spend a month on the easiest difficulty and then complain that its to easy?

You want more difficulty? Do it on Heroic.
You dont want to clear a raid twice? Start on Heroic

Like...
what is your expectation here?

[Sencha]

That's why LFR and normal raids should not exist. Far too easy. No sense of accomplishment.

[Thorim]

Normal Mode this expansion feels closer to LFR then it did in previous ones. I go into a Normal Pug expecting to 1 shot everything. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad.

It's more dangerous then LFR (though I haven't done LFR since MoP) but I'm not sure if it's challenging enough to spark an interest in raiding for more casual players, since most pugs can just roll it.

What keeps me playing is the ever persistent progression of WoW. I like seeing my ilvl grow, and I like seeing my DPS increase or Durability if tanking, while talking up a big game with my friends.

I will say killing Heroic Gul'dan in a pug was very satisfying for since it took me a number of attempts. It was satisfying taking down Heroic Helya in a pug pre-nerf also. The way you progress in learning the in's and out's of encounters and thus start using your abilities optimally and perhaps even assisting the raid leader with call outs, or raid leading yourself. etc.

Because 'normal' now is what flex used to be back toward the end of MOP 0 one stop above LFR. 'Heroic' now is the old normal mode, and mythic is old heroic mode.

[Airwaves]

Normal is meant for pug teams. So no wonder its easy...

[Deleted]

Well... do you realize that Normal mode in WoD and in Legion is an easier difficulty than in the previous expansions? Normal mode used to be something that was harder for casual players. MoP introduced a new difficulty called "Flexible" that was easier than normal mode. For WoD, they changed Flexible to be called Normal, Normal to be called heroic, and heroic to be called Mythic. So... if you're used to taking months to kill the normal mode bosses from Wrath/Cata/MoP this is why.

TL;DR Heroic mode in WoD and Legion is what Normal mode used to be in past expansions.


Also to answer your question on what motivates us to progress to higher difficulties: There are many reasons. There's a lot more prestige associated with downing harder level bosses. There are better cosmetic rewards as well. Mythic Gul'dan drops a red infernal mount that you can only get by downing him on that difficulty. There's also usually a title associated with it as well as an "Ahead of the Curve" achievement for killing him on Mythic which is only obtained during the time the raid was current. For example, if you kill Mythic Xavius right now today you cannot obtain the "Ahead of the Curve: Mythic Xavius" achievement.

for mythic its cutting edge achv not ahead of curve(which is for hc) and pretty sure they removed it for EN.

[Deleted]

Yes I know Im way behind others doing mythic Nighthold and what not, but for me killing Gul'dan (normal) and getting my Nighthold tiger mount was pretty much end-game. I have little interest in harder modes. I was just so surprised how easy it was.

I am kinda underwhelmed, in past expansions I wouldn't kill the last boss for literally months. And on my first try tonight it is all done and dusted.


Thats it? Im just wondering what motivates you pro guys to play more past this point? Cheers.

> Harder modes are not for me

> I'm surprised how easy it was

????

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Its really frustrating to see shit like this.

You willingly admit that you are a casual then act like the game is too easy for you.
Yet it took you what, a month to kill the end boss on NORMAL?
Its just embarrassing.
Why even play the game is this is how minimally committed you are to it?

[Deleted]

This is the problem of multiple difficulties. Lot of ppl just quit after beating the end boss. And if you don't do mythic, the end boss is easy. So ppl quit after one month into a patch.
Moreover, when you have done a raid in one difficult, you enjoy it less the second time, even if it's in a harder difficulty. I really thinks less/one difficulty will retain more ppl subscribed.