T20 Retribution Compared to Other Melee Classes

[Morally Grey Storm]

Storm, since I'm the only person who's posted since your last post, I assume you've just replied to me. I have you on ignore, so I have no idea what you've said. No plans to change that, I'm afraid.

Not my loss, sure as sure.

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The big problem with our mastery is how it does nothing on 3+ target cleave. Even if mastery became our best stat for single target, I would still avoid it like the plague unless ToS is all single target and 2 target cleave. Mastery is actually not that far behind the other stats for me single target. Right now for me it's vers ~14.5, crit ~14.4, mastery ~12.2, haste ~12.1.

I recall bzzd saying something along the lines of our mastery being designed that way, to provide almost solely single target bonus.

[Deleted]

Paladin set, especially with 4 piece, seems extremely strong to me. Mostly it's going to raise the value of mastery - provided that I'm reading it right and mastery will cover blade of justice now. It also keeps Liandrin's ring high up there for legendaries.

I don't even..
- 4 piece strong? What on god's earth are you even talking about? Please give us your logic behind that, because to me it seems mediocre AT BEST. Why would I think that? Because the core problem with mastery, which will limit this talent in the same way it limits mastery's mass AoE with DS.
- Obviously these sets will increase the value of mastery, heck it is written all over "We want you Rets to stop avoiding mastery like the plague".
- Keeping Liadrin's high up there? Are you for real? Please explain to us your logic behind that. In fact it could DE-VALUE the ring, since overcapping HP could be a real issue if this goes live. The only legendary it really would benefit is the cloak, for obvious reasons.

I can't believe more rets aren't upset about these new set bonuses. Poor design all over, no interesting interaction or change of gameplay what so ever.

[Shelly]

I don't even..
- 4 piece strong? What on god's earth are you even talking about? Please give us your logic behind that, because to me it seems mediocre AT BEST. Why would I think that? Because the core problem with mastery, which will limit this talent in the same way it limits mastery's mass AoE with DS.
- Obviously these sets will increase the value of mastery, heck it is written all over "We want you Rets to stop avoiding mastery like the plague".
- Keeping Liadrin's high up there? Are you for real? Please explain to us your logic behind that. In fact it could DE-VALUE the ring, since overcapping HP could be a real issue if this goes live. The only legendary it really would benefit is the cloak, for obvious reasons.

I can't believe more rets aren't upset about these new set bonuses. Poor design all over, no interesting interaction or change of gameplay what so ever.

Can you explain in more detail how you think the 4pc seems, and I quote, extremely strong? Sure it'll make Mastery stronger, but by how much and how did you come to that determination? What constitutes a 4pc being considered extremely strong? What metric are you using to validate your claim? I.e. 4pc = 10% dps buff therefore extremely strong, etc.

Can you also explain how you arrived at the conclusion that Liadrin's Ring is high up there for legendaries, let alone how this change improves/maintains its standing?

Since you're both asking the same deal I figure I'll lump you two together if you don't mind. :-)

In it being extremely strong - I am referring to mastery builds where you regard them as equal or possibly even favor mastery over crit.

Our mastery currently effects 2 of our abilities. Judgment and a finisher - whether that be TV or DS. Our rotation is a combination of 4 buttons, 2 generators, judgment and a finisher. T20 4pc suddenly makes our mastery effect 3/4 of our abilities. That right there is a large boost.

My very undergeared character has 47% mastery. So we're looking at a 50%+ increase to damage on 1/4 of our abilities, if you then build around mastery after that you're looking at an increase of at least 50% over baseline to 3/4 of our direct damage abilities.

Liandrin's remains strong simply because more HP = more finishers. Will you overcap at times? Probably. Will it be that big a deal? Not really. Please note that I'm not ranking the legendaries either, I simply said that Liandrin's will retain and improve in value over this. In all likelihood the only way you'll really be running the risk of overcapping often is if you are using divine purpose.

And yes I agree, the cloak will definitely benefit more. :-)

Either way, these are not bad set bonuses. If you feel they are please go ahead and list out your reasons why and do remember that at this point neither of us know whether or not this bonus will only work with blades of justice or if it'll include divine hammer and just wasn't listed.

If it doesn't include DH I can totally see it as definitely limiting our AoE, but I'd still be fine with that given the overall increase to single target damage and the ability to throw out 1/3 more divine storms.

[Neldarie]

It will actually devalue legendaries like cloak-shoulder because of 4set+2set combinations.

That said overall ye very underwhelming set bonuses if not using Divine Hammer.

[Deleted]

Since you're both asking the same deal I figure I'll lump you two together if you don't mind. :-)

In it being extremely strong - I am referring to mastery builds where you regard them as equal or possibly even favor mastery over crit.

Our mastery currently effects 2 of our abilities. Judgment and a finisher - whether that be TV or DS. Our rotation is a combination of 4 buttons, 2 generators, judgment and a finisher. T20 4pc suddenly makes our mastery effect 3/4 of our abilities. That right there is a large boost.

My very undergeared character has 47% mastery. So we're looking at a 50%+ increase to damage on 1/4 of our abilities, if you then build around mastery after that you're looking at an increase of at least 50% over baseline to 3/4 of our direct damage abilities.

Liandrin's remains strong simply because more HP = more finishers. Will you overcap at times? Probably. Will it be that big a deal? Not really. Please note that I'm not ranking the legendaries either, I simply said that Liandrin's will retain and improve in value over this. In all likelihood the only way you'll really be running the risk of overcapping often is if you are using divine purpose.

And yes I agree, the cloak will definitely benefit more. :-)

Either way, these are not bad set bonuses. If you feel they are please go ahead and list out your reasons why and do remember that at this point neither of us know whether or not this bonus will only work with blades of justice or if it'll include divine hammer and just wasn't listed.

If it doesn't include DH I can totally see it as definitely limiting our AoE, but I'd still be fine with that given the overall increase to single target damage and the ability to throw out 1/3 more divine storms.

I doubt there is any point trying to argue with this flawless, next level theorycrafting. Spot on mate, keep it up!

[Deleted]

As if I would loose time to judge on fights like skorpyron and spell blade specially if I get a nice string of dp proccs
On a sidenote does this mean rotation gonna become even more spastic with us trying to squize everything into that judge window?

[ThePants999]

do remember that at this point neither of us know whether or not this bonus will only work with blades of justice or if it'll include divine hammer and just wasn't listed.

I'll bet you that it includes Divine Hammer. I'll offer you 50-to-1 odds. How much shall I put you down for?

I doubt there is any point trying to argue with this flawless, next level theorycrafting. Spot on mate, keep it up!

Nicely put