Rooting For "Deep State" To Undermine Trump Is Destroying Democracy In Name Of Saving

[primalmatter]

He did nothing of the sort. What he did is he frightened everyone with any degree of the intellectual capacity and human decency.

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A land-ownership/wealth based government is the worst of all options. That is not a technocracy, it is an oligarchy.

Well no a oligarchy is a bit more exclusive I see the needs of the working class something that needs to be serviced

[jugzilla]

I see why you are a fan of Trump. You have a lot in common when it comes to intellectual capacity and mastery of the English language (or lack thereof).

I don't care for sports. But I am compelled to support the home team.

[Kaleredar]

Well no a oligarchy is a bit more exclusive I see the needs of the working class something that needs to be serviced

Electing the New York business tycoon born with silver spoon in mouth who never had to work a day in his life probably wasn't the best way of fighting for the "working class."

[Macaquerie]

He did nothing of the sort. What he did is he frightened everyone with any degree of the intellectual capacity and human decency.

Well one of the frightening aspects of a Trump presidency was that it would force us to make this kind of choice, because make no mistake, even if allowing the "deep state" to take down Trump would help avert immediate disaster, in the long run it would set a terrifying precedent that would almost certainly undermine democracy in this country.

[Kaleredar]

I don't care for sports. But I am compelled to support the home team.

The only "home team" is the United States.

Trump isn't the United States. And he certainly doesn't seem to be reflecting its best interests.

[primalmatter]

Electing the New York business tycoon born with silver spoon in mouth who never had to work a day in his life probably wasn't the best way of fighting for the "working class."

Yes I imagine it isn't.

[jugzilla]

Electing the New York business tycoon born with silver spoon in mouth who never had to work a day in his life probably wasn't the best way of fighting for the "working class."

You got something against New York?

The only "home team" is the United States.

Trump isn't the United States. And he certainly doesn't seem to be reflecting its best interests.

Give me a minute here. We have the same values.

[Kaleredar]

Well one of the frightening aspects of a Trump presidency was that it would force us to make this kind of choice, because make no mistake, even if allowing the "deep state" to take down Trump would help avert immediate disaster, in the long run it would set a terrifying precedent that would almost certainly undermine democracy in this country.

What, that an incompetent boob that squeemed his way into the white house with a minority of votes and utter disdain from all sides of the political aisle who in his first month proved that he has literally no clue as to what he's doing can be peacefully removed from service by other elected officials? That doesn't seem like undermining to me. That seems more like "not taking it on the chin like a little bitch."

I know a lot of Trump supporters voted in order to cut the nose to spite the face, but we don't have to sit and burn for their poor decision making.

[primalmatter]

What, that an incompetent boob that squeemed his way into the white house with a minority of votes and utter disdain from all sides of the political aisle who in his first month proved that he has literally no clue as to what he's doing can be peacefully removed from service by other elected officials? That doesn't seem like undermining to me. That seems more like "not taking it on the chin like a little bitch."

I know a lot of Trump supporters voted in order to cut the nose to spite the face, but we don't have to sit and burn for their poor decision making.

I don't know... this to me feels like a "do what you must I have already won" moment.

[Heltoray]

Election 2016 You lost. I won. And you still refuse to understand the country. I am a very bad, bad, bad person, but I do take advice. Listen to this piece of advice...not everyone thinks like you.

This is exactly what is wrong about this whole discussion. It isn't YOU or any other voter who won. This isn't a game or a bet. The one who won is Trump who doesn't care about anything but his own ego. In the end, if YOU win, it isnt about YOU but about the well-being of the whole population.
I don't think there is no argument at this point to convince me that a president Trump is in the best interest of the US as a whole. Only those who already have so much they shouldn't care at all really get something from this. See: deregulation of wall street, billionaires and corporate managers in trump's inner circle, building a wall that costs the taxpayer billions and won't have any use, trying to brainwash people by inventing terrorist attacks and in the same sentence telling people all decent media are liars, ....
The most interesting part is that everyone outside of the US can see this, you are being laughed at by the whole civilized world except those who will exploit the situation (Russia anyone?). But ok, YOU won. That's what it was about, correct? Look what this idiot has done in the last few weeks. Look at it objectively. He pissed on everyone who disagreed with him and he pissed on his voter base.

[jugzilla]

What, that an incompetent boob that squeemed his way into the white house with a minority of votes and utter disdain from all sides of the political aisle who in his first month proved that he has literally no clue as to what he's doing can be peacefully removed from service by other elected officials? That doesn't seem like undermining to me. That seems more like "not taking it on the chin like a little bitch."

I know a lot of Trump supporters voted in order to cut the nose to spite the face, but we don't have to sit and burn for their poor decision making.

Trump's rants are more interesting than yours. Just saying.

This is exactly what is wrong about this whole discussion. It isn't YOU or any other voter who won. This isn't a game or a bet. The one who won is Trump who doesn't care about anything but his own ego. In the end, if YOU win, it isnt about YOU but about the well-being of the whole US.
There is no argument to convince me that a president Trump is in the best interest of the US as a whole. Only those who already have so much they shouldn't care at all anyway. See: deregulation of wall street, billionaires and corporate managers in trump's inner circle, building a wall that costs the taxpayer billions and won't have any use, trying to brainwash people by inventing stuff and in the same sentence telling people all decent media are liars, ....
The most interesting part is that everyone outside of the US can see this, you are being laughed at by the whole civilized world except those who will exploit the situation (Russia anyone?). But ok, YOU won. That's what it was about, correct?

I gotta say...Trump is saying some stuff to our European partners no-one in the US has had the balls to say. Good. And CANADA. You spend less on your Military then the LAPD. Get with it.

[Mihalik]

Well no a oligarchy is a bit more exclusive I see the needs of the working class something that needs to be serviced

Land ownership is only democratic when you remove the association between land ownership and political power. If you tied political influence to land ownership then land ownership immediately becomes monopolized by a small group of people. We have a couple of thousand years of examples of this.

Rome.
Feudalism.
The Franchise in the UK between 1432 and 1832, and countless similar examples across Europe and Russia.

All those examples are characterized by sweeping oppression and exploitation of the working classes combined with political stagnation and an inability to reform. We moved away from those systems not necessarily because we wanted to empower the working classes, but because of urbanization, where wealth was concentrated in the cities to a point where businessmen and merchants and city dwellers would often simply buy lands to gain Franchise and they eventually dismantled the system.

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I gotta say...Trump is saying some stuff to our European partners no-one in the US has had the balls to say. Good.

No. The shit he is saying isn't just against the interests of Europeans, it is against the interests of the United States. The systems he is attacking were built by the US and Europe for our shared interests and benefit.

He is attacking a system he doesn't understand because he doesn't know what it is.

[Kaleredar]

You got something against New York?

Only in the sense that the rural rust belt voter base thought that for a second Trump understood or cared about their plight. He came from kind of place and kind of upbringing they constantly feel is looking down on them and taking them for fools. And yet this man, this rich-born, business tycoon, thrice married, womanizer-casino owner? He's their heaven-sent tiding of mercy for their woes?

Hell, even in places like California. You should have seen how eager the conservative central valley was to kiss his ass when he mentioned "evil democrats are causing the drought!" As if he ever had a plan to move on water rights.

It doesn't look good for people when they claim that the "big-city types" are mistakenly taking them for rubes when they more or less actively prove that a big-city type can take them for rubes.

Give me a minute here. We have the same values.

I see no reason to prop up a man that will do nothing but weaken the country. Every single facet of his discourse through the election and his first month has proven that he doesn't have the tact, presence, or capacity to run this country. He's sold his administration out to corporate yes-men and bankers when he promised to "drain the swamp." He lauds a megalomaniac in Russia who actively seeks to degrade the United State's position in the world. Every criticism lobbied at Trump isn't met with analysis or measured reproach, but with "THE MEDIA IS TARGETING ME!" and "Well Hillary Clinton..." Incompetence. Deflection.

Not in America's best interest.

[jugzilla]

Only in the sense that the rural rust belt voter base thought that for a second Trump understood or cared about their plight. He came from kind of place and kind of upbringing they constantly feel is looking down on them and taking them for fools. And yet this man, this rich-born, business tycoon, thrice married, womanizer-casino owner? He's their heaven-sent tiding of mercy for their woes?

I hoped you had something better than that. Your argument is basicly "Trump doesn't care because he is rich." Sick and tired of it. We ALL ARE. [/quote]

Hell, even in places like California. You should have seen how eager the conservative central valley was to kiss his ass when he mentioned "evil democrats are causing the drought!" As if he ever had a plan to move on water rights.

It doesn't look good for people when they claim that the "big-city types" are mistakenly taking them for rubes when they more or less actively prove that a big-city type can take them for rubes.



I see no reason to prop up a man that will do nothing but weaken the country. Every single facet of his discourse through the election and his first month has proven that he doesn't have the tact, presence, or capacity to run this country. He's sold his administration out to corporate yes-men and bankers when he promised to "drain the swamp." He lauds a megalomaniac in Russia who actively seeks to degrade the United State's position in the world. Every criticism lobbied at Trump isn't met with analysis or measured reproach, but with "THE MEDIA IS TARGETING ME!" and "Well Hillary Clinton..." Incompetence. Deflection.

Not in America's best interest.

I think you are sick. I think your mind has been rotted with such hatred that I question your ability to think to straight.

[Heltoray]

I gotta say...Trump is saying some stuff to our European partners no-one in the US has had the balls to say. Good. And CANADA. You spend less on your Military then the LAPD. Get with it.

He is saying stuff that makes no fking sense, often because he just doesn't know better. He is confusing everyone because nobody even knows what he really means or what is stances on things are since he just says different things about the same topics all the time. He is nothing but a bad diplomat and a bad representative.
Oh I like not paying a shitload of money for military crap. Instead I get insurance and pensions from that money and still earn well enough. I don't have to keep my credit card ready when I go to hospital, do you?

[Mgann-Morzz]

Seriously people going "LOL YOU'D REALLY RATHER HAVE PENCE OR RYAN!" really do not get the problem with Trump, beyond all his others. I disagree with Pence on Ryan on most everything... but I have little doubt they could run a competent Executive Branch and be diplomatic toward our allies. Trump's completely unable to run the executive branch in a competent way, so now you basically have the Executive Branch at war... against it's self... while the Intellgence Apparatus is ALSO fighting it due to Trump's Russians ties and made more fierce by him constantly attacking THEM (seriously CIA/FBI/NSA were REALLY not happy when Trump basically called them Nazis), and Congress while still bending over has a ton of private concerns, the only reason you don't see hundreds of investigations into Trump is a mix of the pure partisanship of Congressional Republicans and more than anything, fear of being primaried by their radicalized base.

So yeah Id take Pence or Ryan over Trump 1000 times hell id take freaking Dick Cheney over Trump at this point, as crazy as he was I don't think he'd threaten to invade Mexico and go nuts towards the Australian Prime Minister. Trump is beyond "I disagree with his policy" he's so incompetent and undiplomatic that he's a massive threat to global stability.

[jugzilla]

He is saying stuff that makes no fking sense, often because he just doesn't know better. He is confusing everyone because nobody even knows what he really means or what is stances on things are since he just says different things about the same topics all the time. He is nothing but a bad diplomat and a bad representative.
Oh I like not paying a shitload of money for military crap. Instead I get insurance and pensions from that money and still earn well enough. I don't have to keep my credit card ready when I go to hospital, do you?

Well, I'm not old enough and haven't gotten sick. *knock on wood* But Canada...has almost NO MILITARY. It is pathetic. The US could send the Maine Army National Guard over and overwhelm Canada. The US and Canada are supposed to be like gym bros but Canada has skipped out for the past 30 years.

The US (at least under conservative) Leadership wouldn't dream of annexing Canada...if anything because we don't want another few million more liberal voters. The Idea of Canada and the US going to war is so crazy....it is kind of fun to think about though eh?

[JohnBrown1917]

Some of those bricks are just making my chuckle. Obama? Kissenger? On the same team? Really? Plus what, Google and Satanists? lolwtf?

Ben Is a huge Trump lover and Conspiracy theorist. He also believes in Pizzagate, that Europa will be overtaken by Muslims, that vaccines/GMOs are used to control the people, and that big pharma is causing the mass shootings.

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What in your life, or those you personally know, has changed for the worse since the election?

Getting rid of ACA will be terrible for people in the US
His stances on climate change will fuck over the whole world.

[Spectral]

I know I've found it really weird to watch people that are generally left-leaning and liberal-minded suddenly decide they're going to cheerlead for the CIA engaging in interdepartmental squabbling and attacks on the executive branch. Some of the very same people could be relied on to critique the CIA's endless meddling and agendas that are clearly not what could be described as "national interest" over the last few decades suddenly want to see a sitting American President attacked with whatever propaganda intelligence agencies can procure or conjure. People like Skroe have always been consistent about backing CIA interests and genuinely believing they're entirely consistent with overall American interests, but liberals really have no excuse here.

[jugzilla]

Ben Is a huge Trump lover and Conspiracy theorist. He also believes in Pizzagate, that Europa will be overtaken by Muslims, that vaccines/GMOs are used to control the people, and that big pharma is causing the mass shootings.

I will take a Trump lover over some dude who pretends the USSR is still a thing. Lol, seriously, your sig...its like Alternate Reality right?