Riots erupting in immigrant-dominated Swedish suburb

[Deleted]

Good read of how these rather problematic areas came to be:



Rinkeby in a nutshell:
- Sweden received economic bloom in Stockholm mostly;
- As Stockholm's population increased, housing shortage arises;
- New housing areas were to be constructed (like Rinkeby), major difference that
these new locations were build for high population densities and small housings
(while Swedes were mostly accustomed to the opposite back then);
- Native Swedes don't show much interest, so mostly immigrants go live there;
- Area became more and more isolated, large groups of low socio-economic immigrants
without proper exposure to native way of life resulted in a problematic area.

Yes indeed.
Imagine, a social and economical situation is actually complex... I don't mean to be sarcastic at you personally, I'm just pissy that people overlook details just so they can blame immigrants.

[Deleted]

The alt right filter bubbles always invoke swedens rape rate.

Here's what this shit is about:

Usually those statistics are heavily cherry-picked. Some types of crimes are up, some others are down. The rape statistic is usually singled out because if you just look at the pretty colored graphs it looks quite bad, but if you actually read the reports you'd know about several things that heavily influence the graphs.

So for instance, this is how sex crimes have evolved

(graph)

Now if you have an anti-immigrant agenda you might say "look at that spike 2013, it's the immigrants!". But if you actually look at what happened, Sweden changed the law in 2013. The same thing happened in 2005, but I couldn't find a graph going back that far.

The amount of women who were subjected to sex crimes were at 3% in 2016. You can't explain that with law changes. There's been no law changes that would increase reported sex crimes. There's been law changes that could affect data on rape, yes. But it does not affect victimization studies where people are asked if they have been subjected to a sexual crime.

When you literally change the definitions that define what "sex crimes" are, and broaden them, that's exactly what explains it.

The number of reported rape offences has increased over the last ten years (2006-2015). The increase can be partially explained by the entry into force of new sex offence legislation on 1 April 2005. This legislation entails, among other things, that certain acts which were previously classified as sexual exploitation are now classified as rape. The effect of the statutory change appeared in the statistics such that the number of reported offences in respect of sexual coercion and exploitation declined in the years immediately following the statutory change while the number of reported rapes increased. As from 1 July 2013, the sex offence legislation was again made tougher; among other things rape was expanded to include cases where the victim reacts passively.

https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-englis...-offences.html

Since you like BRA sources, there you go. You are objectively, factually wrong. The laws were changed in statistically significant ways in both 2005 and 2013.

Endus went in and started talking about rape when I was talking about sex crimes. I didn't say shit about rape. The law changes didn't change what a sex crime is.

[Deleted]

Illustration of what the law changes accomplished.

Before law changes:
Sexual crimes: 1000
Rapes: 200
Sexual coercion: 200
Sexual harassment: 600

After law changes:
Sexual crimes: 1000
Rapes: 300
Sexual coercion: 100
Sexual harassment: 600

Yet Endus thinks this somehow translates to total sexual crimes increasing when they move some crimes from one sub-category to another sub-category due to redefinition.

I can't for the life of me see how he even reaches that conclusion.

Those don't look like the real numbers.

Even so, what if the sex crimes increased? What do you want that to equals?

[Sama-81]

It's not the fault of the immigrants that you might have to wait for a doctor. THat problem has existed far longer and is a result of many other factors, such as a clear lack of doctors and an underfunded healthcare system.

As someone working in the medical world, at least here in the south of Sweden, medical queues are indeed clearly longer these days, as (partly, but it is the largest part overall) a direct result of the refugee crisis (with a little help from normal immigration, it's hard to separate the two in this instance). Not saying it's "the fault of immigrants", that would take some doing, but that's indeed where the major ripple originate.

Also, as something else that is a bit more critical and directed, it is MUCH more common than people think, that people come here with almost the sole purpose of getting an already diagnosed disease treated (or dental issues actually, likely even more common), due to it being either to advanced or simply too expensive to treat in their homeland.
The standard practice (or at least a common enough one) then is to come via "family immigration"-rules, get treated, and then move back once the treatment is done (alternatively, in between treatments when they are sufficiently far apart). No matter what, there is no possibilty to claim that recent immigration/refugee-waves haven't had a rather large impact on our health care system, at least not in particularly vulnerable areas (such as Skåne, for instance).

[Thoughtful Trolli]

Source shaming is an infracted offense, so I would remove your comment if I were you.

I hope this is a deeply sarcastic, twisted joke?

This website sucks if that's true, rofl

[Deleted]

Endus talked about rape. Ipeen talked about rape.

Only you talked about "sex crimes". Just as a reason to create a virtual number split between rape and other sexual offenses.

That was your rhetorical trick. Even just with numbers you pulled out your ass.

That is called a "strawman".

[Deleted]

Those don't look like the real numbers.

They aren't real numbers. If you can read the post I said it's an illustration of what the law changes accomplished, which Endus is contesting, saying that the amount of sexual crimes increased as a result of the law changes when they didn't, it just accomplished a change in the sub-categories.

- - - Updated - - -

Only you talked about "sex crimes". Just as a reason to create a virtual number split between rape and other sexual offenses.

Usually those statistics are heavily cherry-picked. Some types of crimes are up, some others are down. The rape statistic is usually singled out because if you just look at the pretty colored graphs it looks quite bad, but if you actually read the reports you'd know about several things that heavily influence the graphs.

So for instance, this is how sex crimes have evolved

(graph)

Now if you have an anti-immigrant agenda you might say "look at that spike 2013, it's the immigrants!". But if you actually look at what happened, Sweden changed the law in 2013. The same thing happened in 2005, but I couldn't find a graph going back that far.

I can take a picture and zoom in on it if you don't notice the bolded and upsized part.

And he's arguing about the law changes, too. Which wouldn't cause an increase or decrease in sexual crimes, they would cause an increase in rape and a drop in sexual coercion/exploitation.

[Strangebrew]

Sad to see things like that happen because of flawed immigration policies.

You're right, accepting a flood of them, throwing benefits, social security and housing after them is shitty immigration policies.
They should be forced to adapt and pull themselves up.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

I don't understand how this could happen. In sweden it is forbidden, by law, to be a criminal.

[araine]

If you stick to the facts, you'll recognize that the US has much larger issues with crime than Sweden:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...al-than-Sweden

All this fingerpointing by Americans at Sweden is ridiculous. Try to get your own crime rates down to the low levels of Sweden before you try to fearmonger.

But but those emails and those immigrants in sweden if we dont have those scapegoats what you mean we have to fix our own problems first more guns should solve any problem i heard

[Deleted]

They've also burned down many houses and places that were meant to house immigrants.
The rightwing extremists are all criminals and thugs. That such vermin should presume to tell anyone whos better and lesser is amusing to say the least.

Most of those cases in Finland were from haphazardly jury-rigged electronics by the migrants themselves. I'd wager they were the exact same shit there.

[Deleted]

I can take a picture and zoom in on it if you don't notice the bolded and upsized part.

And he's arguing about the law changes, too. Which wouldn't cause an increase or decrease in sexual crimes, they would cause an increase in rape and a drop in sexual coercion/exploitation.

The talk initially was about rape, you also should have sized up that. Also endus quote was about rape, while you argumented about sexual crimes only, and even with wrong numbers. Infact, you didnt argument, you just created a strawman acting as if numbers were shifted. While you dont know anything about that.

[Sama-81]

Endus talked about rape. Ipeen talked about rape.

Only you talked about "sex crimes". Just as a reason to create a virtual number split between rape and other sexual offenses.

That was your rhetorical trick. Even just with numbers you pulled out your ass.

That is called a "strawman".

Endus however claimed that some crimes now considered rapes, were previously considered entirely non-criminal. Which 1) is an outright falsehood, unless some sort of source can back it up, and 2) made Mikkonens reasoning entirely non-strawmanny (at least if made in connection to that statement, if nothing else - perhaps it wasn't, just pointing that possibility out).

[Deleted]

They've also burned down many houses and places that were meant to house immigrants.
The rightwing extremists are all criminals and thugs. That such vermin should presume to tell anyone whos better and lesser is amusing to say the least.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6452483

Bara en tiondel av bränderna på Sveriges flyktingboenden har varit anlagda de senaste åren. Den vanligaste orsaken till brand är olyckor.

Sedan 2012 har det varit 180 bränder på boenden för flyktingar och asylsökande. Myndigheten för samhällsskydd och beredskap tyckte att mediabilden av bränder på boenden var skev och ville ta reda på de verkliga orsakerna.

– Vi tyckte att tidningsrubrikerna i höstas gav intrycket av att de flesta bränderna var anlagda utifrån, säger Marianne Stålheim på Myndigheten för samhällsskydd och beredskap, MSB.

Och nu kommer en lite mer nyanserad bild fram, som visar att hälften av bränderna orsakas av vanliga hushållsolyckor, men en del bränder har ändå varit anlagda utifrån.

– Merparten är på de boenden som är anlagda utifrån har varit där folk inte flyttat in än.

Enligt MSB:s sammanställning av bränderna är endast 11 procent anlagda utifrån.

– Det vanligaste är olyckor, matlagningsrelaterat eller elrelaterat, mycket med mat och olja som tar eld och den typen.

Hösten 2015 startades många boenden på kort tid. Standarden var på många håll låg, och som Sveriges Radios tidigare granskning visat var brandsäkerheten inte fullgod på många håll.

Dessutom är det nu mer trångbott. Det har gjort att brandlarmen ofta går på grund av rökning och matlagning, ett stort problem eftersom man inte tar larmet på allvar när det sedan är skarpt läge, säger Marianne Stålheim.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6322079

Sedan i somras har det brunnit på nästan 40 asylboenden i Sverige. Polisen tror att flera av de bränderna kan ha startats av flyktingarna själva. Den senaste branden var norr om Vänge utanför Uppsala.

[Deleted]

Good read of how these rather problematic areas came to be:



Rinkeby in a nutshell:
- Sweden received economic bloom in Stockholm mostly;
- As Stockholm's population increased, housing shortage arises;
- New housing areas were to be constructed (like Rinkeby), major difference that
these new locations were build for high population densities and small housings
(while Swedes were mostly accustomed to the opposite back then);
- Native Swedes don't show much interest, so mostly immigrants go live there;
- Area became more and more isolated, large groups of low socio-economic immigrants
without proper exposure to native way of life resulted in a problematic area.

That is wrong. The massive construction of areas like Rinkeby opened up a whole new living situation for many swedes. People went from living in overcrowded houses to being able to live in big apartments or separetly in their own smaller apartments.
I can't speak for Rinkeby specifically but alot of these areas were prosperous for quite some time after their construction, some still are and some never were.

[Deleted]

The talk initially was about rape, you also should have sized up that. Also endus quote was about rape, while you argumented about sexual crimes only, and even with wrong numbers. Infact, you didnt argument, you just created a strawman acting as if numbers were shifted. While you dont know anything about that.

My numbers aren't wrong.

http://www.bra.se/bra/publikationer/...ngen-2016.html

3% of women were victims of sexual crimes in 2016.

[Deleted]

Endus however claimed that some crimes now considered rapes, were previously considered entirely non-criminal. Which 1) is an outright falsehood, unless some sort of source can back it up, and 2) made Mikkonens reasoning entirely non-strawmanny (at least if made in connection to that statement, if nothing else - perhaps it wasn't, just pointing that possibility out).

No, it is not wrong, as there are also way more rape reports than before, due to the change of the law itself. While in other countries you have a lot of victims not reporting to the police, it is much higher in sweden. At the end, it is about the number of rape incidents, and not about virtual number shifting where noone knows the numbers.

[Deleted]

Endus however claimed that some crimes now considered rapes, were previously considered entirely non-criminal. Which 1) is an outright falsehood, unless some sort of source can back it up, and 2) made Mikkonens reasoning entirely non-strawmanny (at least if made in connection to that statement, if nothing else - perhaps it wasn't, just pointing that possibility out).

Guy was talking about sexual crimes and showed a graph with sexual crimes, I made a comment about how it's 3% of women who were victims of sexual crime in 2016, which is an increase and Endus started talking about how the definition of rape has been widened as if that was even relevant.

[Deleted]

3% of women were victims of sexual crimes in 2016.

Which doesnt change anything about the rape statistics in detail. Dont try the same rhetorical trick again.

[Deleted]

Which doesnt change anything about the rape statistics in detail. Dont try the same rhetorical trick again.

The poster I quoted first posted a graph with sexual crimes and talked about the development of sexual crimes, I don't specifically care about any rape statistics. There's been an increase in the amount of sexual crimes, something that Endus contested with "b-but rape definitions have changed" as if that's somehow relevant.