Riots erupting in immigrant-dominated Swedish suburb

[Deleted]

Typical tricks:

1.) Try to get rid of numbers which counter your theories by spliting them in numbers you dont know any detail about, and in special how they evolved
2.) Try to get rid of arguments by changing terms in the discussion to just show up one mistake to act as if everything in the discussion was wrong.

[Sama-81]

No, it is not wrong, as there are also way more rape reports than before, due to the change of the law itself. While in other countries you have a lot of victims not reporting to the police, it is much higher in sweden. At the end, it is about the number of rape incidents, and not about virtual number shifting where noone knows the numbers.

It is entirely wrong. Nothing that is considered rape in the here and now, was prievously non-criminal. That is simply a factual untruth claimed by Endus - there is no way around it. I personally made zero assertions about whether or not more crimes were reported, or committed, etc, I'm simply stating that Endus's lie opened up for a discussion about whether or not there were more sexual crimes reported (if nothing else, simply to challenge the lie).

[Deleted]

The poster I quoted first posted a graph with sexual crimes and talked about the development of sexual crimes, I don't specifically care about any rape statistics.

Actually, the rape statistics are compared by right wing filter bubbles. Initially, it was also the argument in this thread. Rape is being used as an argument against sweden to act as if the rape rate went up and as if the immigrants would be the source of that change.

Infact, you used that argumentation on the other thread yourself. Until it got debunked. As usual.

Now you just pull detail numbers out of your ass to argument against the numbers we know about. You infact dont know anything about which crime shifted to the other, and even if.

[Deleted]

Actually, the rape statistics are compared by right wing filter bubbles. Initially, it was also the argument in this thread. Rape is being used as an argument against sweden to act as if the rape rate went up and as if the immigrants would be the source of that change.

Infact, you used that argumentation on the other thread yourself. Until it got debunked. As usual.

Now you just pull detail numbers out of your ass to argument against the numbers we know about. You infact dont know anything about which crime shifted to the other, and even if.

You can pretend that you've debunked something if you want to. Matter of fact is that both you and Endus do not understand what the law changes in Sweden accomplished.

[Deleted]

1> that report's over a decade old, and only covered data from 1997-2001. So it's not talking about current trends.

2> Let's read the rest of the report, shall we? And hell, let's even pull from the English summary they conveniently provided.

What is it then in the life-situation experienced by immigrants that might explain their being registered in connection with crime more often than others? There are three main factors that are usually emphasised in this context:
• It is difficult to make the break from one’s homeland and settle down in a different country.
• Social factors that generally increase the risk for involvement in crime are more common among immigrants.
• The reception given to immigrants in Sweden is flawed.

Those are the three factors they determined caused any bump in rates of offense. The trauma of being uprooted and dealing with culture shock. The poverty and lack of education they may have had in their home countries. And that Sweden wasn't supporting their needs sufficiently. Your own source does not support your claims, which you'd know, if you weren't cherry-picking data points.

Endus, if anything it's easier to change your behaviour in fresh settings. And seriously, excusing bad behaviour because it's common where they came from? Really >

They are treated too good EVERYWHERE in the West. It doesn't help for people from cultures where a sense of entitlement is the norm (not the mention the double paradigms of "if I can get away with it it's alright" and "might makes right". For comparison, the West was built on the principle of RIGHT MAKES MIGHT).

[Deleted]

It is entirely wrong. Nothing that is considered rape in the here and now, was prievously non-criminal.

It was not in the rape statistics, and that is what it is about. We dont know where the numbers changed from, so we cant argument with it.

It is just that Mikkonen invokes numbers he does not know anything about.

[Deleted]

It was not in the rape statistics, and that is what it is about.

Nope. It's about sexual crimes and the development of sex crimes in Sweden.

[Endus]

So what do we put the spike down to in 2016?

* The number of reported rapes increased by 13 percent to 6560 crime, while the reported crimes of sexual coercion and exploitation decreased 1 percent to 1 240.
* The number of reported crimes of sexual assault increased by 20 per cent to 10500 crimes

If you go back and check the sources I've already linked, there wasn't really a spike. It's a bump over 2015, but only because 2015 was a drop from 2014. 2015's low numbers are the deviation, not the return to normal levels in 2016.

Erroneous again, unless you have a source for your statements? The definition of rape is indeed wider now than it used to, but there is, to my knowledge, not any crime that is considered rape after 2013, that prior to that used to be non-criminal. What did happen was, that crimes that were indeed crimes of a sexual nature, were "upgraded" to be considered to be an actual rape (ie, a significantly worse crime). They were still sexual crimes before then.

Since the entire point is that there hasn't been a real uptick in rape offenses, just in how they're classified, I'm not sure what you think you're proving.

[Deleted]

You can pretend that you've debunked something if you want to. Matter of fact is that both you and Endus do not understand what the law changes in Sweden accomplished.

You dont understand it yourself, as you dont have any numbers of crimes and how they shifted to other crime sections. Still you pretend you do.

At the end, you created a shiny nice strawman, as i already said. You just repeat the strawman now over and over.

[Deleted]

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6452483

Bara en tiondel av bränderna på Sveriges flyktingboenden har varit anlagda de senaste åren. Den vanligaste orsaken till brand är olyckor.

Sedan 2012 har det varit 180 bränder på boenden för flyktingar och asylsökande. Myndigheten för samhällsskydd och beredskap tyckte att mediabilden av bränder på boenden var skev och ville ta reda på de verkliga orsakerna.

– Vi tyckte att tidningsrubrikerna i höstas gav intrycket av att de flesta bränderna var anlagda utifrån, säger Marianne Stålheim på Myndigheten för samhällsskydd och beredskap, MSB.

Och nu kommer en lite mer nyanserad bild fram, som visar att hälften av bränderna orsakas av vanliga hushållsolyckor, men en del bränder har ändå varit anlagda utifrån.

– Merparten är på de boenden som är anlagda utifrån har varit där folk inte flyttat in än.

Enligt MSB:s sammanställning av bränderna är endast 11 procent anlagda utifrån.

– Det vanligaste är olyckor, matlagningsrelaterat eller elrelaterat, mycket med mat och olja som tar eld och den typen.

Hösten 2015 startades många boenden på kort tid. Standarden var på många håll låg, och som Sveriges Radios tidigare granskning visat var brandsäkerheten inte fullgod på många håll.

Dessutom är det nu mer trångbott. Det har gjort att brandlarmen ofta går på grund av rökning och matlagning, ett stort problem eftersom man inte tar larmet på allvar när det sedan är skarpt läge, säger Marianne Stålheim.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6322079

Sedan i somras har det brunnit på nästan 40 asylboenden i Sverige. Polisen tror att flera av de bränderna kan ha startats av flyktingarna själva. Den senaste branden var norr om Vänge utanför Uppsala.

Yes? An interesting piece of information, but it doesn't contradict what I said. 10% of 180 is 18 and that's still many.

[Deleted]

Since the entire point is that there hasn't been a real uptick in rape offenses, just in how they're classified, I'm not sure what you think you're proving.

The person that I quoted was talking about sex crimes and how it's evolved and posted a graph of sex crimes. I provided data on it, stating that 3% of women in Sweden were victims of sex crimes in 2016, which is an increase from 2015(And data he provided) and you quoted me and for some reason went on to cite law changes for an increase in sex crimes as if the law changes are responsible for the increase, and further you went on to state that these things that were added under rape weren't criminal prior to the law changes, which is just blatantly false. The acts were still crimes prior to the law changes. No law changes have increased the amount of sex crimes, they might have increased the amount of rapes but not sex crimes.

- - - Updated - - -

You dont understand it yourself

Keep pretending.

[Deleted]

Never seen a football "fan" either? They riot quite frequently.

No, I tend to stay away from violent crowds. Violent people in general hit my PTSD too easily and I win too often.

[Deleted]

Keep pretending.

You still didnt tell me what your gain is from posting right wing propaganda in the off topic forum of a gamer forum.

I really am interested in what your motivation is.

[Deleted]

You still didnt tell me what your gain is from posting right wing propaganda in the off topic forum of a gamer forum.

I really am interested in what your motivation is.

So anything you can't understand is propaganda to you. Okay. Got it.

[Deleted]

So anything you can't understand is propaganda to you. Okay. Got it.

No, actually propaganda is about publishing reports and ideas that advocate a political agenda using desinformations and rhetoric tricks (as like strawmans and fallacies).

As like trying to act as if sweden was a crime filled country because of being flooded my immigrants. And as like trying to use numbers which arent true or unknown. And by using lies. As like acting that the rape rate raised because of immigrants.

[Deleted]

I have no anti-immigrant agenda. I have a public safety agenda, and also a secondary agenda. The secondary agenda is: Why in in the actual fuck, are we exporting and entire nation of able bodied young men, who instead should be handed boots, helmets, and rifles, and then pointed in the direction of their enemy? I'm perfectly fine with removing everyone from immediate danger. In fact, I could not support that more. I fail to see what is accomplished, however, from including fighting age men among those who are exported to halfway across the planet.

It was already done.

Anyone with half a head left should notice things like the "people seeking refuge" not actually settling (this word is fairly amusing with its contemporary context) for refuge. Or the increasing agitation by them for free fucking shit. Free fucking shit over and over again. Food not fit for even dogs, throw it to the women! It's gimme gimme gimme, but all the white girls amongst them are either broken mentally or extra desperate from being fffatttt (usually also old lol).

[xChurch]

So was it just the one? The title says "Riots", but it seems to only mention on incident.

[Sama-81]

Since the entire point is that there hasn't been a real uptick in rape offenses, just in how they're classified, I'm not sure what you think you're proving.

Well, I for one would think it good enough to point out falsehoods, in a vitriolic topic like this, but I challenged that one due to the implications. Ie, if it had been true, then those new rapes wouldn't have affected the overall number of sexual crimes that weren't rapes, something they most certainly will when previously being considered criminal actions not tantamount to rape.

If that then has/had any real relevance in this particular thread, I'm not certain (although at least some were indeed discussing sexual crimes overall, not only rapes), but that particular angle often seems to come up in similar, domestic, debates - not seldomly using erroneous data, or rather, erroneous interpretations. Such as sexual crimes not tantamount to rape being, theoretically, the same number before and after 2013, meaning they haven't increased - when in fact it means they increased quite a bit, as a chunk of them have been moved to rapes instead).

[Deleted]

You still didnt answer my question what you want to achieve by spreading propaganda and desinformations.

What is your gain?

If i could take a guess: Attention.

Lefties still think insisting it's something makes it something

oh wait

it was just an insult

[Deleted]

So anything you can't understand is propaganda to you. Okay. Got it.

Im pretty sure they are trolling you. Theres no way they arent getting it at this point