Next French President Has Balls!

[Pannonian]

Exactly, that is also what I adressed in the other thread regarding this topic a while ago.
The votes of their core voterbase are simply not enough in such cases, and so Le Pen will - just as Hofer did - have to also get others to vote for her. Hofer managed to do so because he was somewhat "tame" for coming from the FPÖ, or at least managed to build an image that made it seem like he is. He managed to position himself somewhat as an actual alternative for those that did not want to vote for VdB.
Le Pen does not necessarily have this luxury; it is well known that she is more radical/extreme than Hofer when it comes to a lot of topics. That possibly makes her more preferable for those who lean in her direction anyway, but it makes it harder for her to also pull in the votes of centrists/conservatives.

Also, as you said, this election is not that comparable to Trump in the first place because of the difference in how the systems work. Thus, saying that Le Pen will win because Trump did too is very short-sighted.

I would even go farther as every day of Trump presidency is actually hurting Le Pen, because while he may deliver to his base, the conservatives that are, as pointed out, needed will be more and more appalled. The longer this goes on, the more of a liability Trump will become to the far-right in Europe. Of course the can ignore them, but then they wont win.

Btw.: I wouldn't say that Hofer is more tane thab Le Pen, i just think he's an excellent actor. He is on of the masterminds of the FPÖ program and was responsible for the FPÖ going back to their german nationalist roots. Personally i consider him a much bigger threat than Strache, who is basically a stupid sock puppet of Kickl.

[-Nurot]

I think this argument is a stretch. Which other cultural facets could she have examined? And is it possible that she did consider some other cultural obligations, but only really found this one to be objectionable? Wearing a hijab is an act that requires planning and thought, so going without one is energetically favorable. The same can be said for attending prayer. On the other hand, going out of one's way to break a tradition is energetically unfavorable; many more cultural facets fall into this category, rather than the former category.

I agree that it probably was a publicity stunt, though. Still, I think it's kind of sad that something like this is even able to be a publicity stunt. Women should not be obligated to wear hijabs if they want to step foot inside a Middle-Eastern country without being harassed.

The Grand Mufti is not the President of Lebanon. She could have met just fine with the President of Lebanon without wearing a headscarf just fine. Michelle Obama did this with at least 2 kings, and although it caused outrage, she wasn't required to wear a headscarf, nor was she asked to by those they met with.

La Pen CHOSE to meet with him knowing she'd have to wear a headscarf and walked out. Is was intended as a slap in the face to Islam. She could go anywhere in Lebanon and not wear a headscarf, but she met with one of the few people who require her to wear one in his presence.

Normal people don't say- Sure I'll meet with a religious leader of a religion I don't like and demonize, knowing full well I'll have to honor their customs in their presence and then just walk out pretending to be shocked when they ask you to honor their customs.

[Pannonian]

Because these are different right?




Not to mention she's comparing herself to Michelle Obama.


Then again she wasn't pushing for woman's rights, Lebanon does not require headscarves. She was trying to excite her base with her same old Anti-Islam message she's been on about. She was even informed before hand that she would be required to wear a headscarf in front of their country's grand mufti, the highest Islam leader in the country. Instead when she was offered one she just walked back out to her vehicle. I understand that she doesn't respect their religion, but don't agree to meet with a religious leader (or use a visit walk out for political gain) if your not going to respect their traditions.

Now she can play the victim card, and this will dominate the news, excite her base, and potentially overshadow her current scandal.

Come on, lets be honest "Marine Le Pen in Lebanon row after refusing to wear formal attire" doesn't give as much clicks. And of course we can bash the headscarf and the oppression of women and ultimatley islam, which we consider babaric and inferior to our own.

While completley ignoring anything in our western civilization that is basically the same (visting the Pope - headscarf; no short sleeves in vatican; having to wear a skirt in the royal british family, tuxedos at state visits).

I have no problem to support anyone who wants to wear a headscarf. I have no problem to support anyone who don't wants to wear a headscarf. Thats the point: choice. For me the people wanting to ban the headscarf, or hijab, because lets be honest, thats what this is about, are the same as the one telling women to wear it, because its basically the same. I tell you what you have to wear.

So why do i think this was stupid? As mentioned above, there is something like formal attire. If you have a job you have to dress for it. Or would you support your president running around in a neon string at state visits (on a second thought, i don't want an answer). In my mind she just wants cheap publicity, on the cost of diplomatic reputation. Go team!

[Deleted]

Western culture? You mean like genocide, holocaust, colonization, chattel slavery, eugenics, race theory, communism, capitalism, corporatism, fascism, crusades, inquisition, wars over recourses, overthrowing democratically elected leaders, arming extremists, drone strikes, nuclear strikes, hunting to extinction, pollution, relentless consumption etc etc

Don't pretend our shit don't stink.

The only ones off that list that other cultures haven't practiced are the ones that they don't have the tech for (drones and nukes, and in the nuk-u-lar case it was best described as a one-off anyways). We don't pretend, but thanks for telling us off anyway.

[zenkai]

Yes, but they aren´t, so back to my question, how is being disrespectful going to accomplish anything?

It won't, which is why she canceled since she wad disrespected.

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So we should respect everyones culture simultaneously, even when everyone has a completely subjective subculture and all it really comes down to is "Hey I don't like X".

Personally I don't understand this absolute fascination with trying to change Muslim culture. Does anyone honestly think it's going to take anything less than a World War 2 style Japanese ending for Muslim culture to change so quickly? We are talking about thousands of years of enforced doctrine and ridiculous tradition being undone in a matter of years.

You can't do that without a large enough threat of extermination.

I don't equate being forced to wear something because she's a woman to destroying Muslim culture. If I refuse to to wear a cross, am I destroying catholic culture? Refuse to wear a yamaka, am I destroying Jewish culture?

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If he visits her country then yes he should. It's like going over to someone's house and refusing to take of your shoes or hat at their request becasue that is how they run their home. You respect the places you visit. If you want to change something you start a dialogue, not piss on their traditions.

She didn't have to wear one visiting the country.

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Your stance is actually ultra-conservative. Very similar to what the opinion of middle-eastern conservative muslims would be. Or cavemen for that matter.

Freedom for a woman to chose what to wear is ultra conservatism? LOL!!!

[Floopa]

props to this magnificent woman standing up for what she believes in.

there is a clear difference between respect by choice and respect by mandate.

but i guess women are 2nd class citizens in the eyes of many liberals :s

[Orlong]

Firstly, these countries arent populated with Barbarians, they are ran by Religious dogmatics, or can we start calling US citizens idiots because of Trump?

Secondly, weak will isnt the reason they wear the head scarf, its because they are a guest in their country and its required, I didnt wear shorts in the Middle East because its against the rules, and everyone was so damn pleasant that shitting on that rule for nothing other than an armchair warriors opition would be rude. Leaders should especially respect each others rules because thats how things in the adult world work.

And lastly many people want to change these clothing rules, but doing so in this way will literally accomplish, nothing.

Only a country where it is regularly over 100 degrees would ban shorts. How asinine. Lets walk around in floor length robes and head coverings when its 120 degrees so we can all die of heat stroke. Why not wear some mittens, wool socks, and a North Face jacket too

[DesMephisto]

Respect is a concept that is lost on most people...

[Edge-]

I guess, "Being ideologically against basic diplomatic behavior, but instead acting like an asshat" is now considered "having balls".

Who knew?

[Tijuana]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/21/europe...n-grand-mufti/

The next French President Marine LePen will make France Great Again!. She doesnt buckle to other leaders. Shes not a wimp like Sarkozy or Chirac were. As she was visiting other world leaders yesterday, Lebanon's Grand Mufti demanded she wear a headscarf and she told him to shove it up his ass and cancelled the meeting. She isnt a pansy and bowed to his wishes like Hillary wouldve been had she won or Michelle Obama.

These photos disgust me. They are even worse than the ones of Obama bowing to the Japanese emperor.

[Darkeon]

I guess, "Being ideologically against basic diplomatic behavior, but instead acting like an asshat" is now considered "having balls".

Who knew?

Why would be hating on women not wanting men to dictate how they should be dressing? Do you think that low of women?

- or is it just women you don't like?

[Tsar Bomba]

I guess, "Being ideologically against basic diplomatic behavior, but instead acting like an asshat" is now considered "having balls".

Who knew?

I feel your flippancy and sneers would moderate, if say, Michelle Obama refused to don the hijab. But objectivity isn't exactly your m.o. is it?

https://qz.com/335179/michelle-obama...lutionary-act/

[KrazyK923]

La Pen stands no chance.

inb4 "HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR U SAID DAT BOUT TURNIP!"

Circumstances are completely different in France vs the US.

[Edge-]

I feel your flippancy and sneers would moderate, if say, Michelle Obama refused to don the hijab. But objectivity isn't exactly your m.o. is it?

https://qz.com/335179/michelle-obama...lutionary-act/

Nope, I think if you're in their house (country), abide by their cultural norms as long as they're not outrageous. Something as simple as a headscarf, something that's required for women before they even enter some Christian historic sites, is not an imposition. Michelle should have worn it there in Saudi Arabia during her stay. Just as the White House would have every right to deny Saudi's request that women wear headscarves should Saudi officials travel to the US.

She's in Lebanon, play by their rules. Thumb your nose at them when they come to your house, if it's that important.

[Aeula]

I hope she gets in. It'd be nice to see another European nation gain some backbone.

[jackofwind]

Do women need to wear a veil when they visit a priest?

Yes if they're meeting the Pope. It's no different.

Sure, they can choose not to meet with that person, but it's not really a big statement. The masses only care because it's a headscarf and Islam. People need to start caring about it for all religions or none at all.

She knew the rules head of time, this whole thing is nothing but a PR stunt.

[zenkai]

Yes if they're meeting the Pope. It's no different.

You're right it isn't different both are sexist.

Sure, they can choose not to meet with that person, but it's not really a big statement. The masses only care because it's a headscarf and Islam.

You're probably right, had it been the pope these people would have cheered for her.

[Sky High]

eh, good on her for making a choice that was totally in her right to make, /eyeroll. but if Orlong likes her then that's a hell to the no from me on her being good for anyone.

[Tyrianth]

Pretty unbecoming for a potential world leader. If you're going to visit another country in any official capacity have the maturity and respect to follow their customs.

[Tsar Bomba]

Nope, I think if you're in their house (country), abide by their cultural norms as long as they're not outrageous. Something as simple as a headscarf, something that's required for women before they even enter some Christian historic sites, is not an imposition. Michelle should have worn it there in Saudi Arabia during her stay. Just as the White House would have every right to deny Saudi's request that women wear headscarves should Saudi officials travel to the US.

She's in Lebanon, play by their rules. Thumb your nose at them when they come to your house, if it's that important.

I can respect the consistency and understand "playing by house rules". So female MP's accompanying Trudeau, forced to arrive through a side door, segregated from males and mandated to cover their own heads, this troubles you right? I mean, it is our "house (country)', we shouldn't be forced to abide by other's decorum.