The poor state of Unholy

[Deleted]

LOL, that was actually pretty funny. Hey listen dude, I'm not saying the spec is not fine in pvp, I'm just saying I hate wasting a cgd on a death coil (or rez pet for that matter), and I think it adds to the overall clunkiness of unholy. As for the rest, I truly believe that old soul reaper gave a lot of charm to DKs in general, it was a DK style execute that I miss and thought made this class really special. As for the apoc buff, it was simply added to make up for the loss of the existing soul reaper, being our hardest hitting ability at the moment, which is pretty much our only source of burst.

No need to get all riled up, I'm just making a suggestion based on my pvp experience.

Cheers

Sorry wasnt meant as an insult, and I do somewhat understand where are you coming from, but we just arent burst class, but constant presure one, and I belive apoc was even nerfed for us in this expansion in pvp, so I dont think they would be very kean on buffing it.

[Maxweii]

My talents are EF (instead of BS), PP, CS, Necrosis and DA.

My trinkets are a 900 Foci and a 890 CoF with a socket. Weapon is 914. Relics are Plaguebearer, Unholy Endurance and Deadliest Coil.

Just did Guarm today...CS did the most damage(23%)...followed by DA (3 casts 17 mill damage or 15%) and VP being third (13%). Hit 667k dps over 3 minutes.

Buffs are fantastic. I cast DA when above 60 RP and weave DC and CS with priority with DC since DA is up. No idea with sudden doom procs account for DA's damage modifier...it shouldn't do. If this is the case they made need to change the way DA empowerment works...unless we're supposed to deathstrike during DA?

On a side note...I chime with the person who says Frost DK's are legendary dependant. At 54 traits on ST during mythic + I was smashed by a frost DK who had trinket and the bracers. Everything he had hit so much more on average. Frost can do ok with high ilevel, the right trinkets but it absolutely needs 2 good legendary's to do well.

In regards to the Draught of Souls...I have received this 3 times...twice on normal and once on heroic. I've given them to warriors in my guild who do insane damage with them. Before and after the buffs...the Draught has always been a dps loss for me. Sims could be wrong though.

Sudden Doom procs count as a normal DC cast for DA buffing, same with Dark Succor

[Deleted]

Sudden Doom procs count as a normal DC cast for DA buffing, same with Dark Succor

Excellent!

[Feelsyaoiman]

Maxweii, Do the UH Legendary Shoulders go up in value with DA? Thoughts on it?

[RuneDK]

Frost Legendaries do matter now with the breath and set bonus.

Ring-Almost mandatory to get the most out of breath

Helm- Is almost mandatory

Belt- Alternative to the ring but worse due to RNG

Bracers- Alternative to the helm

If you have the ring with helm or bracers combo then you are doing crazy numbers.

The belt you may have crazy numbers one fight and another your dps is mediocre.

So Basically Legendaries do matter for frost at this moment, I would say the Ring/helm or bracers combo is more important then Unholy bracers.

I think you missed the point where I said t was performing well enough w/o them. You're not outlier type damage without them, but you're still doing decent without them. Unholy without specific legendaries isn't even worth touching. With that said, don't get me started on legendaries. It's single handedly the worst thing about this expansion.

[Protean]

Sudden Doom procs count as a normal DC cast for DA buffing, same with Dark Succor

Would love a word on how to use DA best for opener and when it's a good time to start pooling RP.

[VakeStorm]

Would love a word on how to use DA best for opener and when it's a good time to start pooling RP.

I would imagine Army/Pot/DT/Outbreak/FS/Apoc as usual. After all that is done you should have a decent chunk of RP to pop DA and start dumping with DC and rotate as usual focusing on casting DC ASAP. You may have to FS one more time. I've heard people say the FEEL of DA is best when you start at 60+ RP, but that might be too little depending on haste or something. So it might depend on your gear.

It gets only a little more interesting with the legendary shoulder. I assume you move DT until just before Apoc, and DA. Could be wrong on that order but I think your pets will still get the buff from DT if pop'd after when using the shoulder (haven't tested this myself though). If not then hold DT until after you DA.

[Deleted]

It is true that Necrosis sim better than IC BUT sim is not a person: since with Necro the rotation is lot less natural and fluid it is very probable that in fight situation someone will missplay it . Moreover the dps increase in respect with IC is 9k .

I think that IC is still the talent to go.

[Protean]

I would imagine Army/Pot/DT/Outbreak/FS/Apoc as usual. After all that is done you should have a decent chunk of RP to pop DA and start dumping with DC and rotate as usual focusing on casting DC ASAP. You may have to FS one more time. I've heard people say the FEEL of DA is best when you start at 60+ RP, but that might be too little depending on haste or something. So it might depend on your gear.

It gets only a little more interesting with the legendary shoulder. I assume you move DT until just before Apoc, and DA. Could be wrong on that order but I think your pets will still get the buff from DT if pop'd after when using the shoulder (haven't tested this myself though). If not then hold DT until after you DA.

Yeah I have the shoulders, which really just makes it a sour experience.

Currently doing
army-pot-outbreak
fs to apoc

DA -> DT -> RP dump
alternate fs and DC until DA has one cast left, obviously switching fs to clawing shadows if I cap wounds




It seems like it makes sense, but feels really awkward in execution, and it's very disheartening when DT doesn't line up with anything. Shoulders really ruining everything and I can't wait to get rid of them.

[Deleted]

I would imagine Army/Pot/DT/Outbreak/FS/Apoc as usual. After all that is done you should have a decent chunk of RP to pop DA and start dumping with DC and rotate as usual focusing on casting DC ASAP. You may have to FS one more time. I've heard people say the FEEL of DA is best when you start at 60+ RP, but that might be too little depending on haste or something. So it might depend on your gear.

It gets only a little more interesting with the legendary shoulder. I assume you move DT until just before Apoc, and DA. Could be wrong on that order but I think your pets will still get the buff from DT if pop'd after when using the shoulder (haven't tested this myself though). If not then hold DT until after you DA.

DA benefits from good RNG as well, sudden doom procs, rune procs, the more you can empower the add before it disappears the better. Your first cast with heroism should always do significantly more damage than any other casts (around 8-9 million). If you can average around 5-6 million per cast you've done pretty well to be honest.

[VakeStorm]

Given DA is up for 15 secs, iirc, can anyone confirm that with shoulders you can cast DT first, then DA and DA will still get the buff from DT? Or do the shoulders require the pet to be out before casting DT? I assume the same would apply to Apoc armies. Again, this is easy to test, though I haven't thought to yet, and I'm at work atm.

- - - Updated - - -

It is true that Necrosis sim better than IC BUT sim is not a person: since with Necro the rotation is lot less natural and fluid it is very probable that in fight situation someone will missplay it . Moreover the dps increase in respect with IC is 9k .

I think that IC is still the talent to go.

I could be wrong but when I was pvping this morning I decided to play CS/Necro instead of my usual CS/IC. It felt like even though I cast DC I didn't get the buff until it hit the target. It felt like I was casting DC and before it could hit the target 20+ yards away my CS would hit, and then I would get the buff. Not sure if this is true, but if it is that is something to consider for the Necro playstyle as well.

I'm not sure why people think Necro isn't natural. It just feels slower in terms of casting our main strike, SS/CS. Instead, you focus on DC the most trying not to overlap Necro buffs, while maintaining your wounds and all the other things. I think EF will help this playstyle as you need to keep VP more often meaning you need to use more runes on VP and less on CS. Could be wrong...

[Lemurion]

People are saying they're getting 600+ dps 904 ilvl.

I'm a little worried, I have 79% mastery, 21% haste, 12% crit, DoS and CoF, belt and uvanimor as legendaries. My ilvl is 887 and I can only get 460k dps. I do like 680k only on burst but sustained is about 460k.

Am I doing something really really wrong or 460k is acceptable for unholy in my ilvl despite the stats? I'm testing in dummy with no food, flask or pre pot. In frost BoS build on same ilvl I can sustain 550k :/

[spanishninja]

People are saying they're getting 600+ dps 904 ilvl.

I'm a little worried, I have 79% mastery, 21% haste, 12% crit, DoS and CoF, belt and uvanimor as legendaries. My ilvl is 887 and I can only get 460k dps. I do like 680k only on burst but sustained is about 460k.

Am I doing something really really wrong or 460k is acceptable for unholy in my ilvl despite the stats? I'm testing in dummy with no food, flask or pre pot. In frost BoS build on same ilvl I can sustain 550k :/

at 900 you should be seeing way more than 600k dps, if you have legendaries. Without leggos maybe that 600k is accurate. Definitely a buff though.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

So the T20 4pc makes it seem as though they actually explode since they buffed the shit out of the damage.

[Kendros]

So the T20 4pc makes it seem as though they actually explode since they buffed the shit out of the damage.

They buffed the damage but limited it to 3 targets, i still think they dont die.

[Angeredsoul]

At this stage in the game, I'm surprised we don't explode and die when we cast DC with the T20 bonus.

[spanishninja]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6AfF/#fight=29

the dream is real.

[Deleted]

This thread is not needed anymore :-D we were given more than I expected, not only we are viable now, we can now play more builds :-D

[Deleted]

This thread is not needed anymore :-D we were given more than I expected, not only we are viable now, we can now play more builds :-D

yesterday i was doing quite decent/good as uh with no Uh legendaries(speedboots and frost ring i used)

[Deleted]

yesterday i was doing quite decent/good as uh with no Uh legendaries(speedboots and frost ring i used)

I do respect that, and you just confirm my point, we are back at being viable, but than again, frost is just that much better, just because it has one of the most OP legos in the game, and it just is one of if not THE top class