Concordance of the Legionfall..see you next expansion...

[Deleted]

Which is why they're changing to an exponential increase. Eventually everyone will find their own cap where they feel like nah, the effort to get another trait isn't really worth the effort. This is no different from many other things in the game, and how far people are willing to go. I don't run every single AP or item WQ, yet my nights aren't filled with nightmares of all the AP and potential TF items I could have gotten. I don't feel like I'm behind because I missed an emissary, or didn't kill all world bosses on all my chars.

It's just sad to see that so many people let unrealistic expectations reduce their enjoyment.

When a game is driven on competition, then it's always going to be expected that you fight with the best chance and in this case, highest paragon traits. It's something blizzard still hasn't figured out, it doesn't matter how high they make the numbers... people will still burn themselves out trying to farm it, and since some top players have already done thousands of mythic + dungeons, it's very likely they'll farm another few thousand trying to get an edge over other players.

If blizzard would be smart, they would leave the AP increases as they were, but made them gated, ie you can only farm up to a certain point and then you have to wait til next month to get more traits. That way people can get ahead if they go ham, but people that are slower would eventually catch up by the time the next one unlocks.

[kamuimac]

But people enjoyed the revamped D3 and Korean MMO's are archetypal as MMO's? It's usually western failures that die after a year that get scoffed.

no not really - look what happened to black desert - all the twitch/youtube personalities like kingen/asmongold & company were praising it like it was 2nd coming of mmo-jesus and yet game was dead in 2 months because of retarded grinds .

truth be told this shit should be called "concordance of legionfail" because if it stays in current form activity will drop to 1 mln in 3 months and legion will b rememeebr as even biger failure then wod.

[Scathbais]

There are better methods to develop a character in rpg game than endless AP grind, WoW is a full time job now.

1. Need to do WQ for chest
2. Need to do random BG for AP
3. Need to win BG for AP/Quest
4. Need to run EN/TV/NH Normal and Heroics to proc leg (5 till now, 4 utility and 1 QoL)
5. Need to do Mythic+ for weekly chest
6. Need to kill all Danger, Wanted world bosses for leg proc chance.
7. Need to farm gold to survive until next raid (BS/Miner)

There is no time to enjoy the game atm. If i won't do this I'll be even more behind others, especially those with BiS legos.

Umm, and I have 2 alts yet...

The issue you are describing is not the AP grind but the lousy Legendary system.

[MasterHamster]

When a game is driven on competition, then it's always going to be expected that you fight with the best chance and in this case, highest paragon traits. It's something blizzard still hasn't figured out, it doesn't matter how high they make the numbers... people will still burn themselves out trying to farm it, and since some top players have already done thousands of mythic + dungeons, it's very likely they'll farm another few thousand trying to get an edge over other players.

If blizzard would be smart, they would leave the AP increases as they were, but made them gated, ie you can only farm up to a certain point and then you have to wait til next month to get more traits. That way people can get ahead if they go ham, but people that are slower would eventually catch up by the time the next one unlocks.

Then the issue just shifts to people being expected to always be at this cap instead. A 'fix' like that would only bring out the ones who are fine with how the system is now.

[Deleted]

It greatly increases the gap...for example my dk (890 ilvl) would throw aside most upgrades for strength (granted I have BiS leggos) and for ~double my str i'd give up any legendary, but grinding ap more than I already have to? uhh ok.

You're 890 and you are moaning about grinding? My alt is fucking 897.
Seeing you're only 890 I am sure you don't raid mythic so all of this doesn't really apply to you, you are not forced to any of that for content you are doing.

[Deleted]

Then the issue just shifts to people being expected to always be at this cap instead.

Which is fine if they time gate it and have reasonable AP amounts.

[Teri]

You continue to not give a f***, be my guest. Just notice that all servers are already CRZd, Legion zones are CRZd from the very beginning (a big change from before where zones in actual content were only CRZd at the beginning of the next expansion), that life migrates to a few big superservers with everything else dying out, that the number of people on the PVP ladder reduced significantly instead of growing and you are now queueing into the same team 6 times per evening because nobody is playing, etc, etc, etc.

Yes and low servers are imploding faster then ever, I see so much more CRZ then the 1st 2 months, it's unreal. If they don't act on small/tiny servers (which are 5-20x smaller then the biggest servers of the same faction/type it will accelerate cause not everyone is willing to mass transfer.

Also as for EU PVE realms there's only 1 big horde/1 big alliance "superserver" for English, the 2nd biggest is at least 5x smaller on raid progression, , not much choice there is there? the big realm will grow, the rest will shrink by people unsubbing or desperate transfers.

As for the 50 trait artifact thing, I like it more then 15% dmg. And it's FAR from doubling primary stats. According to armory a 915-ish player has about 35000+ main stat depending on Trinkets. Casters even have over 40000-50000 intellect.

If it was a passive 11000 mainstat, yes it would be insanely more powerful then a 15% dmg but we don't know the proc/uptime yet.

[Justpassing]

Eh well at least it's something to do.

[Rafoel]

Ok "needing" is completely relevant...you "need" 34 traits on Mythic Krosus unless half your raid has x2 BiS legendaries or has proced a majority 910+. take a look again those top 250 players have max traits...the argument isn't about gear it's about furthering the AP grind that's already making top end guilds quit.

No, it's making "play 12 hours per day every day and stop playing only when there is literally nothing more to do" guilds quit.

And that's good. I advice you to check how "top-end" raiding guilds looked like in Vanilla, or even early TBC. Back then having alt meant that your main is weaker than person's without alt. Now, having 6 alts means you are 20% more desirable in hardcore guild than person with 5 alts.

Blizzard finally noticed that their "making hardcore less hardcore" attitude only forced more players into group-imposed mania of "playing 12 hours per day every day and stopping playing only when there is literally nothing more to do". Game shouldn't be designed around these maniacs to let them fulfill their unrealistic views of what progress-prepared means. Make it so that I can compete on high level without repeating same things on 5 characters every single day, and I might even resub.

[Deleted]

ITS OPTIONAL, THE TRAITS WILL COST SO MUCH IT WILL TAKE THE EXPANSION IF NOT LONGER TO GET THEM ALL.

now that thats aside, its put a new cap in place for those who want to obtain somethingh after they have obtained everything else.

And this information is from where... ? Surely not from one of their blue posts, more likely out of your ass. Their solution to AP grind is introducing more AP grind...

[MasterHamster]

Their solution to AP grind is introducing more AP grind...

Isn't it shocking that a system that is designed to be omnipresent throughout the expansion gets more traits and branches as time goes on? It's as if it's not supposed to be capped by everyone 2 weeks after a major patch.

[InfiniteCharger]

I feel kind of sorry for people that feel their enjoyment is reduced because they aren't always 100% optimal and hate always having some more way to become stronger. People listing a bunch of things (that award character progression outside of raids*) they have to do every week in order to not fall behind. Why are you playing an MMO, exactly? Think you'd enjoy MOBAs more.

*Guess what derphead, this is exactly what we DIDN'T have last expansion and half of WoWs subs were lost to apathy

It's sad to see that WoW has fostered a player mentality that makes so many think they are not "ready" until they've filled everything. Who regard Artifact weapons as just another gigantic bar to fill to 100% or they're "not competitive".

But rest assured that you are a clear minority, and most players aren't really too concerned whether all their spec weapons are 54 or not in order to enjoy the game. They benefit from always having that little AP boost at the end of a dungeon, or raid, or mythic+ run.

But sure, keep sitting there asking for WF/TF to be removed, AP removed, legendaries removed, WQs to be removed. Just don't go fucking crying about not having anything to do outside of raids like you did in WoD.

I don't agree. This is a game design issue. It is an issue of how to design raid encounters around the traits and AP that the average player has in the encounter. This applies across all levels but applies the most at the mythic level. When a raid first opens and before it is nerfed in a patch, these are likely tuned to a certain amount of AP and traits. And therefore, if you want to beat that content you have no choice but max out the AP and traits as much as possible. So really it is not optional. And of course this became an issue because of the fact that most top end guilds were over gearing many of the raids when they first opened because of M+ grinding and other forms of grinds to get BiS legendaries and max AP. Therefore in order to maintain the appropriate level of difficulty in top end content they can't really stop the AP treadmill because otherwise if they stopped AP, then how else would they "progress" the characters through the rest of the raid tiers. It is a catch 22 and purely a result of their game design decisions. And all of these issues trickle down from top end content down to everybody else and all other content. There are plenty of other ways to make content engaging and difficult outside of pure gear and itemization checks. And AP is simply a gear and itemization check on steroids.

Make dungeons more random and less scripted and you would fix a lot of these issues. That would make skill a more important factor than pure gear score and itemization checks now based on RNG procs.

[Deleted]

Isn't it shocking that a system that is designed to be omnipresent throughout the expansion gets more traits and branches as time goes on? It's as if it's not supposed to be capped by everyone 2 weeks after a major patch.

Is there a lack of oxygen in your area or something? No one complaints about more traits and branches, its about their solution to people burning out farming them and not offering alternatives to mythic+ grind. Artifact weapon could have 100 traits, as long as you shouldnt be required to farm endless mythic+ in order to be prepared for the next raid.

They should add a weekly AP cap (maybe stacking just like the WQ chests if you miss a week or two), and how you reach it is your problem:

- clear Nighthold (mythic 75%, heroic 50% of your weeky cap, etc)
- do daily WQ chests (5%/day) + AP you can from WQs
- grind mythic+ like an idiot (0-100% of your weekly cap)

[MasterHamster]

Is there a lack of oxygen in your area or something? No one complaints about more traits and branches, its about their solution to people burning out farming them and not offering alternatives to mythic+ grind. Artifact weapon could have 100 traits, as long as you shouldnt be required to farm endless mythic+ in order to be prepared for the next raid.

Why are you required to have max traits to be prepared for the next raid? Who has set these expectations?

They should add a weekly AP cap (maybe stacking just like the WQ chests if you miss a week or two), and how you reach it is your problem:

- clear Nighthold (mythic 75%, heroic 50% of your weeky cap, etc)
- do daily WQ chests (5%/day) + AP you can from WQs
- grind mythic+ like an idiot (0-100% of your weekly cap)

Oh great idea, a weekly cap. It's not as if people complained endlessly about how they HAD to cap for example Valor every week in order to not fall behind.

This whole fucking issue stems from players who can't come to terms that they need to find the level at which they are comfortable to play. Guilds 'requiring' you to have maxed traits in every weapon are little different from pressures like being willing to reroll at a moments whim for one boss on progression, or some other asinine 'top end' bullcrap.

[rda]

Why are you required to have max traits to be prepared for the next raid?

Social pressure and competitiveness.

[Deleted]

Why are you required to have max traits to be prepared for the next raid? Who has set these expectations?



Oh great idea, a weekly cap. It's not as if people complained endlessly about how they HAD to cap for example Valor every week in order to not fall behind.

This whole fucking issue stems from players who can't come to terms that they need to find the level at which they are comfortable to play. Guilds 'requiring' you to have maxed traits in every weapon are little different from pressures like being willing to reroll at a moments whim for one boss on progression, or some other asinine 'top end' bullcrap.

Blizzard has set this expectations by tuning content which requires you to have max. traits. On top of a full RNG system of WF/TF procs and legendaries.

Social pressure and competitiveness.

^Exactly this what casual players will never understand. This is the reason why guilds fall apart.

[InfiniteCharger]

Since someone mentioned Korean MMOs......

[MasterHamster]

Blizzard has set this expectations by tuning content which requires you to have max. traits. On top of a full RNG system of WF/TF procs and legendaries.

Where have you gotten this idea from? Proof?
People wiping on Mythic bosses week 1 because they haven't gotten any gear yet is not proof that the bosses are tuned around 54.

^Exactly this what casual players will never understand. This is the reason why guilds fall apart.

And the members find guilds that doesn't set expectations that no one but the unemployed can meet.

[shaunika123]

You don't "NEED" to do any of this. If you do it it because you choose to. If you CHOOSE to be a mythic raider you're making a choice to be a mythic raider and all that comes with it. If you choose to be casual then you do all that comes with that choice. Blizzard to not force anyone to do anything. Its all choice. So in theory you don't "need" to do anything unless you choose a certain path

can you please stop with this?
people dont become mythic raiders to grind AP all day

being a mythic raider is your choice, having to do all the shit that comes with it is blizzard's

[Deleted]

Where have you gotten this idea from? Proof?
People wiping on Mythic bosses week 1 because they haven't gotten any gear yet is not proof that the bosses are tuned around 54.

Mythic Helya.

And the members find guilds that doesn't set expectations that no one but the unemployed can meet.

Yep, because guilds who break up after several years due to bad game design is where this game is currently heading.