Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[Raiju]

I can almost guarantee you this is not the case. Lets take a look at these players, show us their wowprogress, so we can see they've really only ran 50 mythic dungeons since launch.

I don't feel that's needed when you can just scroll through any random low 3-5 mythic kills guild and see similar across half their roster. Every guild that isn't enforcing content outside of raids has people who log on minimally other than to raid.

[bledgor]

He isn't wrong, and honestly don't feel sorry for people that do it to themselves. If you choose to chase world/sever first guess what, can't blame blizzard for your own choices.

[Niwes]

hmm, in my oppinion, the challenge here is: the truth lies in the middle.

on one side its true that ppl are somewhat stupid when they rush totally nolife into the game and burn out. and they are responsive for themselfes. on the other side, its blizzard who set the frame of the game. you can not blame ppl for playing the maximum of your game like how you designed your game.

imo, as often when the truth lies in the middle, both sides should step 1 yard back. blizzard should limit the excess extremes of the game somewhat. on the other side, guild should stand behind their descissions to dedicate their lifes to the game and should either accept it, or quit it. but not pew pew while continuing playing and burning out. and as a side effect: the more who quit the higher the chance blizzard change some things.

or in short: its all about the conditions. if both sides are a little bit less extreme, it will be healthy for all.

[Dziubla]

Sooo....you want to fire him for speaking the truth? I don't even particularly like him, but he's just saying it like it is here.

[Thage]

He's right though. It's not his job to protect players from themselves.

This. MMOs are designed to be played over a long period of time; it's the fault of players with poor self-control and obsessive-compulsive raid leads that are burning people out by forcing them/selves into playing an unhealthy amount per week for a 0.1% edge in progression. Maybe if the world-first race reined itself in to a less unhealthy pace they wouldn't be burning out so hard.

[Shampro]

whoooooooooooooooo another circlejerk whoooooooooo. Mongoloids can't handle being told the truth to thier faces.

''The customer is always right'' fuck off seriously.

[HordeFanboy]

XDDDdD. Ap grind working as intended. Clownfieste expansion

[arr0gance]

because the vast majority of players do not want absolutely 0 content outside of raids.

Because it's the players' fault Blizzard wants to make sure Jimmy McCasualfaggot has the illusion of limitless content at the expense of people wanting to clear content at a reasonable pace not gated by time commitment? Fuck you for supporting this mentality even more than Blizzard for creating it.

[antelope591]

Technically he's right, but if you look at the context Blizz is being very hypocritical here. They clearly know how to design an easier, less hardcore raid as Emerald Nightmare was. But instead of sticking with that model they went from that to ToV and now Nighthold, which are tuned around 35 and 54 traits respectively along with Legendaries. So basically they tune the raid as hard as possible then go "well its not our fault that they're playing so much to be able to clear it!"

[JemiS]

And yet he's completely correct.

WoW raiding was not (and should not) be designed to be competitive. If people want to make it competitive, they can, but that's a personal choice, not something that should be designed around.

[Raiju]

Because it's the players' fault Blizzard wants to make sure Jimmy McCasualfaggot has the illusion of limitless content at the expense of people wanting to clear content at a reasonable pace not gated by time commitment? Fuck you for supporting this mentality even more than Blizzard for creating it.

Jimmy McCasualFaggot's outnumber mythic raiders, so yes blizzard wants to make them desire to hold a subscription. This is basic business logic, and hardcore raiders need to appreciate not all content is designed FOR them, that if something seems impractical for them to do, maybe they just shouldn't do it (like the idea of grinding AP beyond what your guild is happy to do)

[IceMan1763]

He's not wrong though? he's just brutally honest and people don't want to admit it's their own damn fault for burning out so quickly.

That's where you're wrong. Mythic raiding is designed around playing 80 hours a week. And Ion is the head designer.

Accepting ZERO responsibility for HIS and HIS TEAM'S design is the absolute pinnacle of hubris. This guy is so full of himself it honestly makes me sick.

[mingarrubia]

whoooooooooooooooo another circlejerk whoooooooooo. Mongoloids can't handle being told the truth to thier faces.

''The custumer is always right'' fuck off seriously.

Well done, your impression of a WoW dev is flawless.

[Shampro]

Well done, your impression of a WoW dev is flawless.

They probably read this OP and thought that, glad to be of service.

[Fleuria]

And yet he's completely correct.

WoW raiding was not (and should not) be designed to be competitive. If people want to make it competitive, they can, but that's a personal choice, not something that should be designed around.

Yeah I rather not spend x amount more nights or weeks on a boss because I have 10% less damage required to kill the boss, fuck off.

This shit should never have been implemented in the first place, just have the artifact traits and no paragon points, it's a joke that you are forced to farm to get the extra %age damage points to kill bosses faster.

[Deleted]

It's a like a drug addiction for those top guilds.

Blizzard has to do something, but those raiders also must help themselves.

[JemiS]

That's where you're wrong. Mythic raiding is designed around playing 80 hours a week. And Ion is the head designer.

Accepting ZERO responsibility for HIS and HIS TEAM'S design is the absolute pinnacle of hubris. This guy is so full of himself it honestly makes me sick.

Anything to back this up? I'll bet there are a number of mythic raiding guilds with players not playing close to 80 hours per week.

[IceMan1763]

This. MMOs are designed to be played over a long period of time; it's the fault of players with poor self-control and obsessive-compulsive raid leads that are burning people out by forcing them/selves into playing an unhealthy amount per week for a 0.1% edge in progression. Maybe if the world-first race reined itself in to a less unhealthy pace they wouldn't be burning out so hard.

But they are tuning Mythic raids for EXACTLY that type of play. Do the Devs share zero responbility in your eyes, honestly?

The devs are the only ones who can actually change what is required... I pretty much guarantee most Mythic guilds would LOVE to see changes which meant that mythic raiding required less time commitment outside of raiding itself.

[Twdft]

If you eat everything that's in your fridge and get fat the fault lies with you and not your mom who filled the fridge.

Same with WoW, if you do MoS runs 14h a day and burn out that's your fault and not Blizzards who designed AM to be relevant the entire expansion. There are about a 1000 players in the whole world who might have a halfreal reason to nolife AM but everyone outside World 40 just doesn't. Actions have consequences, if you pressure yourself in farming AM don't be surprised about burnout.

[arr0gance]

Jimmy McCasualFaggot's outnumber mythic raiders, so yes blizzard wants to make them desire to hold a subscription. This is basic business logic, and hardcore raiders need to appreciate not all content is designed FOR them, that if something seems impractical for them to do, maybe they just shouldn't do it (like the idea of grinding AP beyond what your guild is happy to do)

It's possible to give the casual shitlords the same freedom of content completion without indirectly punishing players who wish to raid the hardest content without an enormous time commitment. The fact that you won't even accept the possibility of such a bridge being gapped is the reason Blizzard keeps enforcing it.