Boomkin ST help (log)

[boz0]

Hey guys,

my very casual guild is currently running through normal NH, and I'm struggling with ST dps. On aoe fights, I do fairly well (up to 90+% on bosses like Aluriel or Tichondrius).

On Krosus, however, I stand at a miserable 31% with slightly less than 400k dps for 888 ilvl.

Legendary-wise, I'm using IFE/OI most of the time, though I just got Kil'jaeden's trinket, using it for burst aoe (obviously not on Krosus).

If some of the resident experts could find the time to get a brief look at my Krosus log, I'd really appreciate it.

--
Taliesyn

[Deleted]

im no expert but im guessing it have much to do with the fight being way too long compared to other people parsing and you having not enough haste (you should have more SW and LS cast )

[Killuha]

Your most glaring mistake is that you missed an entire Incarnation.

Other than that you cast 2 unempowered Lunar Strikes, overall raid dps was pretty low and you had drums instead of an actual BL.

[nightman463]

Like Killuha said, missing an entire incarnation was a large mistake. it essentially negates the bonus your ring provides (IFE). You also refreshed your dots quite a bit, likely more often then was necessary (7 moonfire casts 12 sunfire casts. On my last kill I had 3 and 5 respectively). Lastly, you should definitely be using deadly grace instead of prolonged power. Ideally, you would also have more mastery than crit ( you want to favor haste + mastery, instead of haste + crit like before). Also, wearing aran's relaxing ruby is less than ideal. I would aim for either the nightbane urn, or the stat stick off of helya in ToV. Also, your cloak is missing an enchant, and your weapon is not yet 54 (easier said than done, I know. Its just most people doing 80%+ on parses are likely to have 54 pts in their weapon)

As far as how you played, you had good DoT uptime, you didn't ever cap on astral power, you spent your empowerments, and you cast the right number of moon spells for the fight length. So all in all, apart from missing the incarnation, you played fairly well. On krosus, the beam will ALWAYS alternate which side its on, so you can plan ahead and inch over to the other side after it is cast, moving during the GCD on starsurge. I assume that your dot refreshing was occurring while you were moving from the beam.

tl;dr missed an incarnation, too many dot refreshes, bad trinket, sub-optimal itemization.

[boz0]

Like Killuha said, missing an entire incarnation was a large mistake. it essentially negates the bonus your ring provides (IFE). You also refreshed your dots quite a bit, likely more often then was necessary (7 moonfire casts 12 sunfire casts. On my last kill I had 3 and 5 respectively). Lastly, you should definitely be using deadly grace instead of prolonged power. Ideally, you would also have more mastery than crit ( you want to favor haste + mastery, instead of haste + crit like before). Also, wearing aran's relaxing ruby is less than ideal. I would aim for either the nightbane urn, or the stat stick off of helya in ToV. Also, your cloak is missing an enchant, and your weapon is not yet 54 (easier said than done, I know. Its just most people doing 80%+ on parses are likely to have 54 pts in their weapon)

As far as how you played, you had good DoT uptime, you didn't ever cap on astral power, you spent your empowerments, and you cast the right number of moon spells for the fight length. So all in all, apart from missing the incarnation, you played fairly well. On krosus, the beam will ALWAYS alternate which side its on, so you can plan ahead and inch over to the other side after it is cast, moving during the GCD on starsurge. I assume that your dot refreshing was occurring while you were moving from the beam.

tl;dr missed an incarnation, too many dot refreshes, bad trinket, sub-optimal itemization.

Thanks everyone for the help, especially nightman for the detailed answer.

The missed incarnation is definitely a huge mistake, I remember holding on to it to wait for after the slam, but I never realized it was that long.
Regarding the dots, we had a couple add pops, I see I did 400k which each dot on burning embers, it likely accounts for a couple casts.
Trinket-wise, on that fight, I had the Metronome (raid finder :/) and a heroic plaguehive, as I tend to switch around a bit

Last but not least, yeah, our overall dps is definitely on the low side, but as I said, we're a very casual guild of friends where not everyone plays optimally, and we're fine with that. That's also why we don't invest too much on the more expensive pots.

So, all in all, beyond the forgotten cape enchant, the main mistake was a missed incarn (ouch). Again, thanks everyone.

[Deleted]

There is really no need to wait for the slam with incarnation. On that fight the only mechanic I would daley it for is the embers as they can be a pain.

[nightman463]

Thanks everyone for the help, especially nightman for the detailed answer.

The missed incarnation is definitely a huge mistake, I remember holding on to it to wait for after the slam, but I never realized it was that long.
Regarding the dots, we had a couple add pops, I see I did 400k which each dot on burning embers, it likely accounts for a couple casts.
Trinket-wise, on that fight, I had the Metronome (raid finder :/) and a heroic plaguehive, as I tend to switch around a bit

Last but not least, yeah, our overall dps is definitely on the low side, but as I said, we're a very casual guild of friends where not everyone plays optimally, and we're fine with that. That's also why we don't invest too much on the more expensive pots.

So, all in all, beyond the forgotten cape enchant, the main mistake was a missed incarn (ouch). Again, thanks everyone.

I wouldn't bother hitting the adds at all really. The only spell worth casting on them is maybe a lunar strike, as it hits immediately. they don't live long enough for dots to be effective on them. Basically just train the boss.

[Laurathansal]

That's the thing though. Boomkins aren't great at ST. The niche is AOE and utility.

For example, at Krosus, even if hitting adds doesn't increase your dps a lot, pooling resources and spending 1 GCD on starfall on a few adds and perhaps a sunfire will help killing them faster, making kills more likely.

You also bring innervate to the table. Don't waste it! Give it to your healers, it's super important, especially on progress.

If you are trying to be nr 1 dps as boomkin on Single target fights, you will probably neglect a lot of fight mechanics and ultimately make life harder for your raid. Focus on mechanics and you will strive.

And naturally, on bosses with adds that live for a good amount of time (the majority of NH bosses do) you will do well. You should be doing amazing DPS on fights with multiple adds, but still be very useful on fights with mostly ST by doing decent damage and also providing great utility to others.

[boz0]

You also bring innervate to the table. Don't waste it! Give it to your healers, it's super important, especially on progress.

Actually, I have a hotkeyed macro to innervate one of our droods (the one that usually coordinates healing CD), so if he doesn't ask for it, I don't use it

And naturally, on bosses with adds that live for a good amount of time (the majority of NH bosses do) you will do well. You should be doing amazing DPS on fights with multiple adds, but still be very useful on fights with mostly ST by doing decent damage and also providing great utility to others.

I think I was ranked at 94% for Aluriel and something like 91% on Tichondrius for my ilvl, so yeah, I'm pretty satisfied with my dps there
My ST dps remains decent (especially considering my guild's average dps), but I'd rather play it to its full potential nonetheless.

[Laurathansal]

Actually, I have a hotkeyed macro to innervate one of our droods (the one that usually coordinates healing CD), so if he doesn't ask for it, I don't use it


I think I was ranked at 94% for Aluriel and something like 91% on Tichondrius for my ilvl, so yeah, I'm pretty satisfied with my dps there
My ST dps remains decent (especially considering my guild's average dps), but I'd rather play it to its full potential nonetheless.

Which spec are you using? I found that the memekin spec (treants, SotF, SS, SD) works great for sustained single target dps, with our without movement. You can easilly sustain the same dps as the only casts you're normally doing are moon spells (which you can wait as long as they don't stack to 3) and solar wrath spam as filler. I'm liking it more and more. Sure, it's not top dps on ST, but it's solid consistent dps throughout a fight without many ups and downs.

[boz0]

Which spec are you using? I found that the memekin spec (treants, SotF, SS, SD) works great for sustained single target dps, with our without movement. You can easilly sustain the same dps as the only casts you're normally doing are moon spells (which you can wait as long as they don't stack to 3) and solar wrath spam as filler. I'm liking it more and more. Sure, it's not top dps on ST, but it's solid consistent dps throughout a fight without many ups and downs.

Using SL/SotF/SS/SD for most fights with AoE. I used to run treants on Aluriel when we had trouble with the adds, so the tanks didn't get damage from the adds during Annihilate, but it's not longer necessary. Depending on the fight, I run IFE/OI as legs, sometimes switching out IFE for KBW for the burst on packs (I have a good ring to switch in but no good bracers).

On pure ST (eg Krosus, Trilliax), I switch to the good old SL/incarn/BotA/NB build.

[Laurathansal]

There's absolutely no point running Starlord with that spec. The point is to keep starfall on the boss at all times, along with your dots, and generate AP with your moon spells and solar wrath (when single target) or lunar strike (if more than 1 target close together, like botanist phase 2 and 3).

Using starlord is in my eyes, useless.

If you are still using a traditional rotation of starsurge and solar wrath/lunar strike, then i suggest switching Stellar drift into balance of power. You still have quick access to AOE tools with 40 AP starfall, and have a much more all-rounded spec with great single target capability and decent AOE.

If you're using Starfall though, go with FOrce of Nature, and put something on your screen to warn you of when they're available. They do good damage!

[Adramelch]

There's absolutely no point running Starlord with that spec. The point is to keep starfall on the boss at all times, along with your dots, and generate AP with your moon spells and solar wrath (when single target) or lunar strike (if more than 1 target close together, like botanist phase 2 and 3).

Using starlord is in my eyes, useless.

If you are still using a traditional rotation of starsurge and solar wrath/lunar strike, then i suggest switching Stellar drift into balance of power. You still have quick access to AOE tools with 40 AP starfall, and have a much more all-rounded spec with great single target capability and decent AOE.

If you're using Starfall though, go with FOrce of Nature, and put something on your screen to warn you of when they're available. They do good damage!

So the top parses on like Aluriel, Tich, Gul'dan and the likes are doing it wrong with SL/SotF/ShS/SD? Using Starsurge on single target and Starfall on AoE is the best approach, so on the fights that swap inbetween the two (with more emphasis on AoE), that build is what brings the best results. Also if anything a more all-rounded spec would be SL/Inc/ShS/SD, not SL/SotF/ShS/NB as you suggest (that literally noone plays).

[Laurathansal]

So the top parses on like Aluriel, Tich, Gul'dan and the likes are doing it wrong with SL/SotF/ShS/SD? Using Starsurge on single target and Starfall on AoE is the best approach on the fights that swap inbetween the two (with more emphasis on AoE), so that build is what brings the best results. Also if anything a more all-rounded spec would be SL/Inc/ShS/SD, not SL/SotF/ShS/NB as you suggest (that literally noone plays).

Son, no need to be so salty to me. I was trying to help.

You are forgetting one very important detail here. Neither myself nor the OP are top Balance druid players (as you seem to be). We want good specs we can use all the time, without having to master every single little aspect of the class.

And you're wrong anyway, as the spec I pointed out is quite well rounded. The one you point is as well, and it becomes a matter of choice, but I personally prefer the one I suggested. Let the OP make his choice.

Now, try to be somewhat more constructive next time.

[Adramelch]

That's all well and good, but it was you who came here with statements like "There's absolutely no point running Starlord with that spec" and "Using starlord is in my eyes, useless." which are not correct. And while trying to help people is always appreciated, it's also easy to misguide them (not knowingly). The other thing you also have to consider is that many people read the forums and they can quite easily get the wrong information.

I still disagree with your statement regarding the SL/SotF/ShS/NB build. NB's value greatly diminishes the less optimal your play is (since you resort to redotting when you move) and I'd argue that its single target value, while significant, is nowhere near as significant as SD's AoE value (ie you gain proportionally less ST damage with NB, that you do AoE damage with SD), but that's down to the theorycrafters to decide. Still, given the amount of AoE in the tier, I'd say SD is by far the best "all-arounder" in that tier.

[Laurathansal]

That's all well and good, but it was you who came here with statements like "There's absolutely no point running Starlord with that spec" and "Using starlord is in my eyes, useless." which are not correct. And while trying to help people is always appreciated, it's also easy to misguide them (not knowingly). The other thing you also have to consider is that many people read the forums and they can quite easily get the wrong information.

I still disagree with your statement regarding the SL/SotF/ShS/NB build. NB's value greatly diminishes the less optimal your play is (since you resort to redotting when you move) and I'd argue that its single target value, while significant, is nowhere near as significant as SD's AoE value (ie you gain proportionally less ST damage with NB, that you do AoE damage with SD), but that's down to the theorycrafters to decide. Still, given the amount of AoE in the tier, I'd say SD is by far the best "all-arounder" in that tier.

Remember, my statements are my opinions, and they make sense on that basis. If you really need solid advice and you come to a forum like this, you should expect different viewsfrom different people.

Having the above said, I totally agree with what you mention and I might give that spec a try myself.

OP, regarding the Memekin spec, here's more info on it: http://www.restokin.com/2017/01/new-...ation-memekin/

[Myztikrice]

Except they are not presented as opinions but facts. There are some very prominent theorycrafters and actual top Boomkins here so presenting incorrect opinions as facts is doing more hurt than good

[nightman463]

So, for AOE you want to run SotF/SS/SD, and for ST you wan to run inc/BotA/NB. Personally, I run starlord on every fight that isn't skorp (where I run warrior of elune) however treants could possibly be better on fights like spellblade/tich/botanist. Really though, there isn't a "one size fits all" spec. You are either respeccing for AOE and for ST, or you will likely not be doing optimal DPS. At the very least, I would run pure single target on krosus and on star augur.

I will say that I do like starlord on fights like tich/spell/chrono/gul'dan/elis because you spend >50% of your time shooting the boss, which means you should be casting starsurge (check slippykin's theorycrafting post) which means you gain at least some decent benefit from it.

I looked through the top 10 ranked boomkins on warcraft logs for each fight, so 100 total, and out of 100, there were 3 total uses of treants. one on tich, one on spellblade, one on skorp.

Of all the heroic parses for all the fights in nighthold, 3.8% of druids used treants. 92% used starlord. I would post the link to the warcraft logs page for this, but apparently I can't put links in posts until I post more

[boz0]

Yup, I'm definitely running Starlord to mitigate the ST loss on fights where there are significant aoe phases, and it makes no sense in my mind to use NB instead of SD when you want some solid aoe, the difference is just too important.
@Laurathansal, Starsurge remains significantly above Starfall on ST because of the buffs to SF/LS, so I'm casting SS on pure single target even when using SD. Last but not least, I've started actively switching specs on bosses in NH, it didn't really feel necessary in EN but the fights are just too different in NH.

Regarding treants, I agree with their damage, and using AP Probar which tracks their CD, among many other things. As mentioned, I've only used them to take some heat off my tanks during Annihilate on Aluriel, otherwise they're just my go-to M+ spec.

Again, thanks everyone for the input.