Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[NightTrain32]

So been progressing Mythic Star Augur the past few days. Solo tanking him. I check the logs tonight and the Nightmarish Ichor Trinket that I've been using only procs in the last phase for some reason.

I believe the only phase you take physical hits is in phase 3, and if memory serves I thought that the ichors only spawn from physical damage. Could be wrong though.

[Deleted]

I believe the only phase you take physical hits is in phase 3, and if memory serves I thought that the ichors only spawn from physical damage. Could be wrong though.

Yeah just realised, feels bad man. Now what to replace it with,

[figuratively]

I bonus rolled an 880 Infernal Contract. It's a boatload of mastery with an on use:

Use: Reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20 sec, up to [3311112 * (1 + Versatility)] damage prevented. When this effect expires, you suffer 20% increased damage for 30 sec, up to 1527776 extra damage. (2 Min Cooldown)

Thoughts on this thing? Mastery is dumb and bad.

[Deleted]

Yeah just realised, feels bad man. Now what to replace it with,

I solo tanked this and I used skorpyrons trinket for some extra stamina & absorb and the Royal dagger haft from Chronomatic anomaly just in case it could save me from some oh shit moment, but it didn't proc often so you could use whatever arcano/chrono too. For past 2 weeks the debuff from fel ground in Fel phase didn't stack but it's fixed again and it stacks, be careful with that. Basicly it hurts fuckton at 2 stacks and you are likely to die at 3-4 stacks.

[Tojara]

Is it even worth it to try solo tanking Mythic Star Augur on my DK? I figured I probably could, but I can also have our bear druid do it. Mostly what it comes down to for us is what DPS each of us can bring. I can play Frost DK or Shadow Priest, and he can play Ret paladin. From the looks of one of the only logs I've seen somebody do it, none of the damage looked dangerous except for the second phase when you go to clear pools on the ground.

[Deleted]

I solo tanked this and I used skorpyrons trinket for some extra stamina & absorb and the Royal dagger haft from Chronomatic anomaly just in case it could save me from some oh shit moment, but it didn't proc often so you could use whatever arcano/chrono too. For past 2 weeks the debuff from fel ground in Fel phase didn't stack but it's fixed again and it stacks, be careful with that. Basicly it hurts fuckton at 2 stacks and you are likely to die at 3-4 stacks.

Yeah I saw your log. I have the entire fight down pretty much. Got it down to 5% so I've pretty much done the fight it's just waiting for DPS to do it now. I'll probably end up using the skorp trinket. I would use the royal dagger instead but I don't have it. Thinking of going purg over blood mirror since I'm most at risk of dying in fel phase and I can't really use blood mirror during fel phase.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

yeah not main stat and the effect can still get you killed so i wouldnt bother using it

[Deleted]

The problem is mark of ursol is spammable and has no cd. DH - empower wards has a cd. Warrior - spell reflect has a cd. Paladin - has no special magic mitigation, mitigation works on everything but has maybe 60-70% uptime at best with high haste and no seraphim. DK - AMS has a cd and also is not a % reduction but a fixed amount absorb. Monk - has no special magic mitigation again but stagger is less effective against magic, even with mystic vitality.

But generally the fact mark of ursol has kinda perma uptime, monk can stagger magic damage and paladin can have fairly high uptime on mitigation means the other 3 tank classes are gimped against magic damage.

Also you're right, no idea why druids need to have it all, high hp pool, effective % mitigation against physical and magical damage both, a good self heal, strong cds and the most powerful artifact ability on top of it.

If we want tanks to be balanced either every tank needs a weakness or every tank needs to have tools for every occasion and answer to everything, like a current edition of druid.

Especially it shouldn't be the case tanks that mitigate the most damage have also one of the most powerful self healing tools and the most powerful cooldowns, while the tanks that mitigate baseline the least damage have also weak cooldowns.

Keep in mind that Druids also have the Golden Trait 'Adaptive Fur'. By taking Magic dmg you have a Chance to get 10% DR against that specific School. Looking at some Augur and Krosus logs the uptime is >80%, there are Krosus logs with 93% uptime. Thick Hide and Pulverize work aswell.

So by 'just' using Mark of Ursol you get 100 - (100 * 0.94 * 0.90 * 0.70 * 0.91) = 46.10 Magic DR with uptime as you Need it. And you could still use Rage of the Sleeper, Barkskin or Survival Instincts on top of that. L O L

Using our only baseline DR IBF on top of Boneshield is 41.2 DR. Rune Tap is great against burst but against high and sustained Magic dmg its useless so is AMS. it doesnt even last 2 ticks at Krosus when you have 5 stacks.

Tank Balance is a mess.

I started equipping my druid. With the latest blue post about Magic dmg in NH i have lost my faith tank Balance can be fixed in Legion. Man i would kill for something nearly as powerful as rage of the sleeper for my DK.

[Tojara]

We have blood mirror, which is a worse rage of the sleeper with a longer CD.

What's hilarious is boneshield use to be 20% base, but was seen as too powerful prior to launch.

Not sure where they felt the need to shove magic damage tank onto guardian as part of their 'class fantasy'. They never, in the history of the game had that label. It was have a lot of health and take very little damage, or have a lot of health and dodge half of the hits. DKs are at least 'passable' on consistent magic damage, at least compared to something like a protection warrior because of boneshield alone. But yeah, it's laughable when you start looking at Mark of Ursol.

What's crazy is a lot of tanks have flat DR, armor % and health as passive auras or passives for just picking a tank specialization. We get health and armor.

[Deleted]

We have blood mirror, which is a worse rage of the sleeper with a longer CD.

What's hilarious is boneshield use to be 20% base, but was seen as too powerful prior to launch.

Not sure where they felt the need to shove magic damage tank onto guardian as part of their 'class fantasy'. They never, in the history of the game had that label. It was have a lot of health and take very little damage, or have a lot of health and dodge half of the hits. DKs are at least 'passable' on consistent magic damage, at least compared to something like a protection warrior because of boneshield alone. But yeah, it's laughable when you start looking at Mark of Ursol.

What's crazy is a lot of tanks have flat DR, armor % and health as passive auras or passives for just picking a tank specialization. We get health and armor.

Rage of the Sleeper is way more powerful than Blood Mirror. With the golden trait on top of the 25% DR and thorns effect you get 25% increased damage dealt and 25% leech and are immune to loss of controll effects. PogChamp

Consumption or the Warrior Ability (dont know the Name) are very bad jokes compared to this.

And the flat %DR:
Druids have 6% (was 8% Prior to 7.1.5 iirc), DHs got 10% but lost 10% DR from Demonspikes in exchange in 7.1.5, Monks have none(?), we got Boneshield, Palas and Warriors can block.

They could just remove Boneshield and make it a passive DR. But then we would have even less Buttons to press -_-

I dont know how reliable Holyshield is, but Palas can block Magic dmg with it.

[Marrilaife]

Not sure where they felt the need to shove magic damage tank onto guardian as part of their 'class fantasy'. They never, in the history of the game had that label. It was have a lot of health and take very little damage, or have a lot of health and dodge half of the hits.

In the past the bear druid's "class fantasy" was humongous health pool but being a "mana sponge" they weren't taking little damage, they were taking more than other tanks because they couldn't block or parry (not sure if they can parry now but in tbc / wotlk they couldn't), however back then healthpool was a big part of being an effective tank, so it was an advantage of druids in some situations, especially in wotlk, because in tbc some bosses had special attacks you had to be "block capped" against, for example illidan had one, they removed it in wotlk pre-patch as a part of efforts to make druids viable tanks.

What's hilarious is first implementation of DK had that anti-magic theme to it, with AMS, AMZ, spellshattering runeforge etc. but they never really gotten into making it cohesive and more than a gimnick.

Also no idea why druids were the dodge tank since like forever (as they couldn't block or parry, and they used to get dodge from stacking agility), but they removed it from them only to move it to monks... even though monks already had an iconic theme to them, namely stagger.

[SerratedEdge]

Rage of the Sleeper is way more powerful than Blood Mirror. With the golden trait on top of the 25% DR and thorns effect you get 25% increased damage dealt and 25% leech and are immune to loss of controll effects. PogChamp

Consumption or the Warrior Ability (dont know the Name) are very bad jokes compared to this.

And the flat %DR:
Druids have 6% (was 8% Prior to 7.1.5 iirc), DHs got 10% but lost 10% DR from Demonspikes in exchange in 7.1.5, Monks have none(?), we got Boneshield, Palas and Warriors can block.

They could just remove Boneshield and make it a passive DR. But then we would have even less Buttons to press -_-

I dont know how reliable Holyshield is, but Palas can block Magic dmg with it.

The bear base was 10% before 7.1.5. Still hilarious

[Ikrekot]

Every tank is getting vers from new artifact trait only healers and dps will get primary stat.

[Deleted]

Every tank is getting vers from new artifact trait only healers and dps will get primary stat.

Where did you get this info? According to the updated Calculator everybody gets Versa. At least a 2k vers proc is worse than our Tier set. Kappa.

[Ikrekot]

Where did you get this info? According to the updated Calculator everybody gets Versa. At least a 2k vers proc is worse than our Tier set. Kappa.

Check this. Every tooltip on Wowdb says you need to be blood dk and have maw to get vers xD but on wowhead you can see something other ^^.

Concordance of the Legionfall
DPS/Healer:
Your abilities have a chance to trigger Concordance of the Legionfall, increasing your primary stat by 2000 for 10 sec.
Tank:
Your abilities have a chance to trigger Concordance of the Legionfall, increasing your Versatility by 2000 for 10 sec.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=239042/...the-legionfall

[Deleted]

Thank you

Perhabs they finally come to senses, we Need more BDK

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I created another QQ Topic about tank Balance in general in the EU Forums, looking for some Kind of answer from blizz. Feel free to help discussing the Topic and bring more Attention to blizz.
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615112785

[Spryte]

Blizzard continues the obsession with Versatility.

[Deleted]

Thank you

Perhabs they finally come to senses, we Need more BDK

---

I created another QQ Topic about tank Balance in general in the EU Forums, looking for some Kind of answer from blizz. Feel free to help discussing the Topic and bring more Attention to blizz.
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615112785

I appreciate the effort, but you either post on US or you'll get ignored.
And just for the sake of saying it, there is already a thread on the us ptr forums about the lack of communication regarding Blood dk, and the poor state we are in. After two weeks still no response from blizzard.

[Deleted]

I have no US account :/

[Deleted]

Did Blizz just seriously responded to Death Grip feedback, but still ignores balance feedback?