EU Lawmakers starting down a slippery slope

[kasuke06]

Okay, let's assume the worst.
President silences someone for disagreeing, even though he doesn't participate in the discussion.
More than half of the 750 members will revolt and the President will be immediately removed.

What's to prevent the President from banning those same people, or just not giving them time for their speeches?

except that's not what their power is according to the story. their power is to nix live broadcast on a whim and have records destroyed. Hell, they don't even say if he has to tell someone that they're off-record. it's effectively a way to quietly kill democracy by not allowing exposure to opposing viewpoints. Sure you take away the insert-minority-cause-of-the-week-phobe's soapbox but at the same time, you legitimize them more and more every time you have to exercise this power to silence them.

It's not a problem you can just shush into submission, you need to give it exposure, then show it's flaws in a simple manner to show the people that support it because of their base urges that they're not wrong, just being lead astray by someone who's using them.

Look at the last election(american) one side, campaigned almost entirely on screaming about how everyone on the other side was a racist,transphobic,cisgenderd, and every other "doesn't like me but can't form an actual argument on why" word they could make up. and we got trump into office simply because "well I'm not racist, how can my entire party be? How bad could trump be, at least he's not screaming hate at me 24/7" and how's that going? The economy is puttering along a little better(yay!) and well... shit is getting weird. But all the "fringe" crazies are coming out of the woodwork, and promptly getting shut down hard. You can't stop darkness by putting it in the shadows.

[Moratori]

Hence where I got the "3-months" rule from.

But that doesn't have anything to do with immigrants then. Immigrants are people who move to another country to live there, not stay there for such a short amount of time. Surely people who just visit your country are not entitled to access to your health care without paying?

[Triks]

But that doesn't have anything to do with immigrants then. Immigrants are people who move to another country to live there, not stay there for such a short amount of time. Surely people who just visit your country are not entitled to access to your health care without paying?

This is a grey area and depends on country to country. It's not an EU problem.

[Mayhem]

I know it's up to individual countries.

Just to make sure that this isn´t an issue with the EU.

Regarding the second part, you are twisting my words. I said "Until they find a job". If they are unemployed for a year - so be it, you will break even 1.5 years into their employment and then make a profit.

Understood, sooo if one is unemployed for 10/20 years after working for only a year?

[Tico]

Not good news. Free speech should not be censored.

[Deleted]

We don't have that, we have completely free at point of use, you don't pay then claim it back, or pay an excess, or anything like that. You only pay for your prescription, which is about £8 and even then loads of people are entitled to free prescriptions, e.g. children, elderly, pregnant women, cancer patients, etc.

That's essentially the same as us. If you're using the public health insurance, you simply present your health id card, and you don't have to bother with paying - you have to contribute to some prescriptions (usually 5€), that's it. If you opt for private health insurance, you will get billed and have to reclaim it.

It is a great system, but it has its limitations.

I still don't see why this is supposed to be incompatible with open borders though. With all due respect, simply because the Tories screw up the NHS intentionally by underfunding does not prove that it would be impossible. Germany does just fine, but we have a different way of balancing (essentially: taxing).

[Moratori]

The word 'racist' is like a magic spell. Its power to cripple Britain is astonishing.

We had thousands of people raped due to the authorities fear of being branded as racist for investigating.

I've never understood why people are so afraid of such accusations when in the context of who is entitled to taking part of the tax paid system.

Sounds like people should stop worrying so much about it and just do instead.

[Triks]

Just to make sure that this isn´t an issue with the EU.



Understood, sooo if one is unemployed for 10/20 years after working for only a year?

This is a polarising question, lol. For me, unemployment benefits have always been something that is short-to-medium term and a safety net for people that have worked but for some reason have fallen on hard time. I consider the maximum for unemployment benefits being 3 years. In that time if you can't find a job in your field, then you will have to consider either going back to school or taking up something else (as harsh as it sounds).

[tss]

I always find it funny when Americans think they are experts on the subject.

I always find it funny when some creepy incel manages to mash up catgirls and communism.

[Kalis]

That's essentially the same as us. If you're using the public health insurance, you simply present your health id card, and you don't have to bother with paying - you have to contribute to some prescriptions (usually 5€), that's it. If you opt for private health insurance, you will get billed and have to reclaim it.

I still don't see why this is supposed to be incompatible with open borders though. With all due respect, simply because the Tories screw up the NHS intentionally by underfunding does not prove that it would be impossible. Germany does just fine, but we have a different way of balancing (essentially: taxing).

We don't have a health card system, we don't have a system where you pay and claim it back, you just use the system, it is a free at point of use system in its purest sense. It began in the late 1940s and was never intended for anything more than native use.

When you have a situation where a large number of immigrants come in, who haven't contributed to the system, then it gets overworked. This is why open borders will destroy a free health service, as it relies on contributions built up over a long period of time.

In order that immigrants are not a burden, they need to pay over a certain amount in tax, in the UK they would need to earn something like £35,000 per household (and I don't think that takes into account tax credits). Average figures look great for EU immigrants in the UK, unfortunately when you take out the French tax exiles living in Richmond, suddenly the figures don't look so good and you realise the Eastern Europeans aren't great for the economy.

Those low pay workers are great for businesses, but they are fucking awful for the working class natives, as they use up finite resources.

- - - Updated - - -

I've never understood why people are so afraid of such accusations when in the context of who is entitled to taking part of the tax paid system.

Sounds like people should stop worrying so much about it and just do instead.

Nobody knows why, but they end up spending all their time fighting against the accusations of racism and nothing gets done.

[JohnBrown1917]

I always find it funny when some creepy incel manages to mash up catgirls and communism.

I'll make sure Fumikane gets your message.
But I don't think he is a Incel, just saying.

[Deleted]

And now we won't allow screaming during the meetings of the EP.
Well, we never did. But now they also made sure it won't reach their target audience.

We also know it won't allow criticism of those that need it either.

[Deleted]

Source?
And how would that even happen?
Did you guys even think this one through?
And criticism of who?

What if a PM stands up and mentions the staggering dire statistics of Somali refugees in almost every EU country ever. Showing they rank high in Crime rates, lack of education and in welfare.

Would that be racist?

This is just hypothetical of course, nobody in the EU's Bureaucracy would ever stand to apply criticism to their replacement working class.

[ati87]

We also know it won't allow criticism of those that need it either.

Their is a huge difference between criticism and trolling.

People like Farage are bloody trolls, he has no actual argument to speak of so he needs to resort to making up bullshit or if possible just cherry pick his so called (alternative) facts.

The fact that we have to pay these trolls is bad enough we don't have to support them by empowering their trolling any further.

[infinit]

Exactly what people said would happen.

hate speech was only an excuse for censorship

[ati87]

What if a PM stands up and mentions the staggering dire statistics of Somali refugees in almost every EU country ever. Showing they rank high in Crime rates, lack of education and in welfare.

Would that be racist?

This is just hypothetical of course, nobody in the EU's Bureaucracy would ever stand to apply criticism to their replacement working class.

But that;s the thing, outside of cherry picking facts or excluding facts you won't be able to draw that conclusion.

And yes then it turns into racist rant because you aren't taking the whole story.

I can for example say that ''african-americans in the US are overrepresented in prisons'' which is technically true but then I'm also leaving out the ''small'' detail that they also get jailed more often for the same crimes as white-americans while as a percentage not committing more crimes.

[Deleted]

But that;s the thing, outside of cherry picking facts or excluding facts you won't be able to draw that conclusion.

And yes then it turns into racist rant because you aren't taking the whole story.

I can for example say that ''african-americans in the US are overrepresented in prisons'' which is technically true but then I'm also leaving out the ''small'' detail that they also get jailed more often for the same crimes as white-americans while as a percentage not committing more crimes.

Wait; So it's now cherrypicking facts that Somalian migrants are the highest in terms of Crime rate in both murder, theft and Rape While also being the highest on immigration?

Not just in the EU, but in EVERY COUNTRY THAT REPORTS IT. How is "They are on Welfare more than anyone else" somehow Racist? How does it suddenly become racist when Ugandans and Ghanans are much less likely and the more likely culprit is Somalia has a large commercial "Refugee" ring to move them here?

[snackfeat]

It's bad to take middle easterers, why, exactly? Did you oppose jews fleeing or people from balkan too? Or is it specific to middle eastern people?

Because the cultures don't match.

[Noradin]

Because emphasis, facial expression, etc. is important in human communication, hence why I want to know how someone said something, not just a cold reading of what they said.

You know this is true, I know this is true, so are you going to continue to argue against it? Why not just let the video evidence stand?

Who said anything about destroying the video evidence?
It is still there, it just won't show up in the official broadcast of the EP.
If there is any serious question about what was said then there can be an inquiry and the recording will be there.

[Moratori]

Because the cultures don't match.

... What kind of argument is that? Are you aware that there's a huge cultural difference between the different countries in the world and the vast majority of people get on just fine if given time to adapt when they immigrate to another place with another culture?