Unholy for a casual player

[Deleted]

Heya all, been reading this forums for a long time, but it seems 99% of the feedback and discussion here is about high-end raiding/ mythic +>a lot, wich is OK, i understand why is that. I play unholy DK because i find it ridiculously fun

Even in icyveins or wowhead it seems that stats/gear/talents is more aimed towards high-end mythic+ / mythic raiding, wich maybe doesnt help too much for a lot of people (like me) who have lower-ish ilvl and doesn't do high-end raiding and just want to do less that cut-edge content.

I Know, i know, most people will just say that pick whatever you want and its ok, it doesnt matter, but some people do want to optimize for the gear that is humanly possible for them to get, due to lack of time/guild.

For example, i see a lot of people going nuts over the ebon fever buff and clawing shadows being much better than Castigator, but i rarely understand in what kind of Mastery levels that is true. For example, if you have around 45-50% Mastery, is clawing shadows realy that better than Castigator with 25-30% ish Crit ? what is the general accepted numbers for this ?

Ebon Fever seems awesome with high levels of mastery and doing content that sustainable damage is way more valuable than burst, but in less important content (when stuff dies faster), shouldn't Bursting Sores the go-to talent ?

Another example, most stat weights i see value Mastery a lot, but is that only because clawing shadows is the "go-to" at high levels of mastery or is Castigator all that bad even in low level content that you value more burst (because stuff dies realy fast)?

Sorry if this all sounds realy out of place/importance and newbish, but i'm one of those guys that due to having kids i can't play much, but the little time i do have to play, i like to optimize the most i can.


(For reference and context ilvl 865.)

Thanks!

[Raiz]

Castigator isn't bad. I remember before the ebon fever and sh.t, someone did 100k more dps than me with castigator even though he had 10 ilvl more than me (I'm 880, Mythic+ dungeon, we both had bursting sore, I had Clawing Shadow, and he has castigator / epidemic). Keep in mind I didn't have a lot of mastery either, something like 42%. But I was still surprised at him doing 100k more dps overall.

I know it won't help, but play what you like best. Nothing wrong with doing your own tests. I do it all the time to make sure I pick the best talents for my current gear, and most importantly, the most fun.

[Deleted]

Castigator isn't bad. I remember before the ebon fever and sh.t, someone did 100k more dps than me with castigator even though he had 10 ilvl more than me (I'm 880, Mythic+ dungeon, we both had bursting sore, I had Clawing Shadow, and he has castigator / epidemic). Keep in mind I didn't have a lot of mastery either, something like 42%. But I was still surprised at him doing 100k more dps overall.

I know it won't help, but play what you like best. Nothing wrong with doing your own tests. I do it all the time to make sure I pick the best talents for my current gear, and most importantly, the most fun.

Thanks for the answer. I do find the Castigator/Bursting Sores more "fun" than clawing shadows/ebon fever, however this gameplay seems more prone to RNG.

[Wildcaard]

Castigator isn't bad. I remember before the ebon fever and sh.t, someone did 100k more dps than me with castigator even though he had 10 ilvl more than me (I'm 880, Mythic+ dungeon, we both had bursting sore, I had Clawing Shadow, and he has castigator / epidemic). Keep in mind I didn't have a lot of mastery either, something like 42%. But I was still surprised at him doing 100k more dps overall.

I know it won't help, but play what you like best. Nothing wrong with doing your own tests. I do it all the time to make sure I pick the best talents for my current gear, and most importantly, the most fun.

Castigator is a faster playstyle centered around popping wounds and you need the belt bracer combo to use it the best.

If your mastery is 42%... i dont know if clawing shadows is better or not for you. I was doing mediocre damage at around 60% and didnt start doing cray dmg until i hit the mid 70's. Clawing shadows lets you attack basically from anywhere so our dps during movement phases is higher, this is pretty important and something you lose with castigator. Clawing shadows also slows the rotation down a bit compared to castigator, allowing you to manage runes and runic power better althought i think the dk 2 pc obviously is alot better for castigator.

[Deleted]

Castigator is a faster playstyle centered around popping wounds and you need the belt bracer combo to use it the best.

If your mastery is 42%... i dont know if clawing shadows is better or not for you. I was doing mediocre damage at around 60% and didnt start doing cray dmg until i hit the mid 70's. Clawing shadows lets you attack basically from anywhere so our dps during movement phases is higher, this is pretty important and something you lose with castigator. Clawing shadows also slows the rotation down a bit compared to castigator, allowing you to manage runes and runic power better althought i think the dk 2 pc obviously is alot better for castigator.

67% Mastery is where the CS build becomes better than Castigator.

[Deleted]

67% Mastery is where the CS build becomes better than Castigator.

Thanks, this explains why i was having poorer results with CS, even tough i was reading in every single guide that CS should be better and no matter how many tries i was making with it.

This kinda confirms the point that guides should be taken carefuly as diferent levels of gear/stats could provide diferent "ideal" talent builds.



Now onwards between Bursting Sores vs Ebonfever, while using Castigator...

[Deleted]

67% Mastery is where the CS build becomes better than Castigator.

I thought maxweii explained some time back that 67% is the point where mastery makes up for ghouls damage reduction?

[Protean]

I thought maxweii explained some time back that 67% is the point where mastery makes up for ghouls damage reduction?

Correct, the other guy is just confused about what the number is and where it comes from.

[Deleted]

Correct, the other guy is just confused about what the number is and where it comes from.

Just checking My mastery levels seems to vary from 69% to 86% depending on what flavour of the hour trinkets i equip. With suitable change to attack power, obviously

[Acidbaron]

Don't ignore your crit and haste, they contribute a lot more to our damage than you might think. Just stacking mastery isn't the best way forward especially when AoE and Cleave comes into play.

Check the guide on our discord Acherus i believe it's called. Beyond that Unholy isn't the most casual spec since you're managing 3 resources and a few procs, just to keep that in mind.

Unholy is also seen as "bad" by less informed people, as in it doing badly in terms of damage while a good unholy dk can match a frost in terms of aoe just take longers to set up, but just so you know you'll have that going against you. I know i have been rejected from groups based on spec alone, despite a 900+ ilevel and bis lego's.

[Deleted]

Not recommending anyone else try this but...in the mythic dungeon finder, ive started putting "900 frost dk" and i get actual invites. Groups rarely notice im unholy, and the lack of stun doesn't seem to get picked up on

[Rixarius]

Not recommending anyone else try this but...in the mythic dungeon finder, ive started putting "900 frost dk" and i get actual invites. Groups rarely notice im unholy, and the lack of stun doesn't seem to get picked up on

I'm not sure if I've been exceptionally fortunate, but nobody ever asks me for spec if I sign up for anything. I'm 912 in bags so maybe that makes up for it, but UH isn't bad in Mythic dungeons. They do still have amazing AoE, and decent burst damage. It's really the sustained single target/cleave that they suffer at, which you don't really get in M+ unless you're on a really high key on Tyrannical week

[Deleted]

I'm not sure if I've been exceptionally fortunate, but nobody ever asks me for spec if I sign up for anything. I'm 912 in bags so maybe that makes up for it, but UH isn't bad in Mythic dungeons. They do still have amazing AoE, and decent burst damage. It's really the sustained single target/cleave that they suffer at, which you don't really get in M+ unless you're on a really high key on Tyrannical week

Totally agree with you - unholy, especially with sephuz is pretty fucking epic in mythics. I often look up on skada and think how the hell am i pulling those numbers.

Single target fights over 5 mins and we really start to suck without bracers

[Outsider24]

I use Castigator just have the belt and no bracer(praying for bracer) and I prefer crit haste build over the haste mastery build. I hold around 600k at 895 ilvl on guldan still for example

[Zensunni]

Don't ignore your crit and haste, they contribute a lot more to our damage than you might think. Just stacking mastery isn't the best way forward especially when AoE and Cleave comes into play.

Check the guide on our discord Acherus i believe it's called. Beyond that Unholy isn't the most casual spec since you're managing 3 resources and a few procs, just to keep that in mind.

Unholy is also seen as "bad" by less informed people, as in it doing badly in terms of damage while a good unholy dk can match a frost in terms of aoe just take longers to set up, but just so you know you'll have that going against you. I know i have been rejected from groups based on spec alone, despite a 900+ ilevel and bis lego's.

Also viewed as bad by quite a few of the informed ones, like myself. I like the spec. I play it. It's still terrible...

[Acidbaron]

Also viewed as bad by quite a few of the informed ones, like myself. I like the spec. I play it. It's still terrible...

If you do terrible in M+ that's on you not the class sorry, for raids after buffs you can be easily be high mid.

[Deleted]

If you're playing as frost or unholy (I use frost mainly for M+) it's all about using your short CDs (less than 5) in between trash pulls.

Unholy can do really well at decent ilevels and without bracers you want to take EF (for both ST and AOE) however with bracers, bursting sores should win out on teeming/fortified weeks. At lower ilevels I ran with Epidemic, but it's extremely clunky.

For the last row, take Dark Arbiter for a more single target focus (but it's damage is reliant on sudden doom procs), but if you want the best of pretty much both worlds you can't really go wrong with Soul reaper. DnD, SR and Apoc can sometimes be hard to pull off on trash, with the high movement and target switching required in M+, but you'd want to master this rotation in between bosses.

[Zensunni]

If you do terrible in M+ that's on you not the class sorry, for raids after buffs you can be easily be high mid.

I parse over 90% for my ilevel as UH. I know you'd like to assume someone else is bad cause this is the internet, but I don't think bad players tank 2 chest m+ 17s in 890 equipped gear. The spec is terrible because its 3 resource system is a disaster. I like the style of the class, and the slightly convoluted gameplay, but the truth is we bring absolutely nothing to a raid whatsoever. I can't recommend it to a casual player.

[Deleted]

I parse over 90% for my ilevel as UH. I know you'd like to assume someone else is bad cause this is the internet, but I don't think bad players tank 2 chest m+ 17s in 890 equipped gear. The spec is terrible because its 3 resource system is a disaster. I like the style of the class, and the slightly convoluted gameplay, but the truth is we bring absolutely nothing to a raid whatsoever. I can't recommend it to a casual player.

I think we bring good aoe and cleave. With bracers we also bring good dps. With ams healers barely notice us.

Are we topping the charts? No. But we're solid midtable and thats ok.

[Ange]

I think we bring good aoe and cleave. With bracers we also bring good dps. With ams healers barely notice us.

Are we topping the charts? No. But we're solid midtable and thats ok.

FrostDK's with tripple BlastRadius relicts and 40+ second Breath lengths are middle of the pack. With legendarys and 1,5min Breath lengths maybe you can touch a DH or Assassination Rogue each full moon and thats it.

Unholy with its slow and GCD demanding AoE/ST cant even touch any other DPS with same skill and ilvl.

Thats for raiding, mythic dungeons are just more painfull. Try unholy with 110% mastery vs any FrostDK or DH or Monk or ... withg -15ilvl and they will beat you. They will beat you at tyrannical bosses, they will beat you at long AoE and short AoE and most classes and specs dont even need a fukin legendarys to counter your 110% mastery-bracers-trinket unholy DK.

If you play casual and want at least a small chance to even do comparable DPS as ANY OTHER DPS go Frost.

Even when Blizzard buffed unholy to leader of the pack patchwerk DPS, it would be still hard to beat RIME-fishing-OBLITERATION-spamming-Frost or any other melee with simple, low GCD DPS mechanics.

Unholy died in dungeons when they nerfed/changed Epidemic, because the alternative DT / DnD / wound spreading mechanic is way to slow in comparison and doesnt even peak at FrostDK / DH / Monk levels.

I allways liked Unholy more since WotLK, played Frost only when it was way above Unholy at each content.
Enjoyed from Unholy the sometimes big PET or big Disease Damage, because it was EASY WHITE DAMAGE.
In legion you have the lowest WHITE DAMAGE from all melee classes and no big DPS CD to even allow for player skill to shine at some situations and than you got the weakest ST patchwerk balancing from alle classes and weak legendarys so there is not even hope in this whole expansion.

I cant even imagine how anyone coming from WoD unholy to Legion unholy as a raider could be pleased even a bit with unholys current state.