Mafia 80: The Lost Village

[Crissi]

well fuck, forgot about large (so tired...)

Felt he also took part in the dog piling, but something about his take it on it read more townish than scummish. I like his conversation push back on Arialla. Seems to have the opposite take of Pala about Kryllian's trat (lynch vs no lynch). Weird word choice: "I'll consider Rixis a top 3 scum read but it isnt really a scum read"(#447). Mostly null with a slight town lean.

[Reticence]

Vote: Largehorn

Making my preference known, but I'm willing to switch to Xanjori for the moment, as well. Also, I'm not really a fan of this Crackle train.

@listo95, @Crissi: a belated thanks for your reads.

@Senna1251:

Thank you for the post overall, but I thought this was an interesting observation. What do you think of his latest post (#421), in that context?

- Catta & Crackleslap: It rubs me the wrong way that they've lied about their traits, especially when we have Listo claiming that his role involves the elimination of those who lie. I feel like there's definitely something not right with the situation. I can't help but wonder if they activate an ability or win condition through putting forward a false trait claim. Technically speaking if Listo is telling the truth then he couldn't secure his goal unless someone were to lie. So if Listo isn't lying then there must be some mechanic that encourages at least one player to put forward a false claim. Which, in turn, brings us to the whole 'Town shouldn't lie' argument that is popular from time to time.

Can you build a case for either of them that does not rely on their claims?

I don't completely hold it against you for thinking this, but I'm honestly a little concerned at the general fixation on false claims and "town shouldn't lie". I mean, our role cards are requiring us to draw attention to ourselves by claiming less than shady things to access our abilities, and they're actively encouraging us to kill other players for seemingly arbitrary, non-alignment reasons. Even if lying is being encouraged by their roles, how certain would you be that those roles would be scum in this game?

Also, thank you for the reads, but can I get the one on Palawin that I asked for?

I visited you on the first night Reti, after a fashion.

Hm. And you're armed with a rifle. I don't know if I should be scared.

Well it looks like you and me are just not going to be able to get along much then. As my "secondary" win condition is surviving, of course at this point I've given up on that. Would be great if it happens, but what are the chances of that honestly?

Well, like I said: believe it or not, I'm largely ignoring my win condition in favor of a town win. That I'm suspicious of you is coincidental, and we'd get along fine if I trusted you more. I find the vanilla survivor win con interesting, though. Not sure what to think about that, yet.

N1 I received some very interesting "flavor" text as well. It doesn't appear to have done anything on N2 though. I think you can rule that out from blocking you as my little power worked from what I can see.

Hm. Interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this, either -- partly because we can't be certain we're talking about the same thing, given the number of night actions that are undoubtedly flying around. Thanks for this info, though.

@Crissi:

Although now I'm having second thoughts, knowing that Kryllian is actually town now. Catta seemed like a dog going after a juicy bone in terms of Kryllian. and Xanjori agreeing with Catta again (#367) just hits me all sorts of wrong. It strikes me as pushing on an already vulnerable player to create chaos that day.

Between Xanjori and Catta, which do you distrust more?

Ret: Same problem as with Raz. I'm currently having massive ADHD episodes and I'll likely need more games to know what is town Ret and what is scum ret when it comes to super long posts of doom. I'm more neutral on him now than I was earlier though.

Unfortunately, you can pretty much always expect super long posts of doom from me. I tend to compress my thoughts into a smaller number of longer posts. I usually try to format them to be easily readable, though.

I'm glad you went and checked this because I was wondering. The win conditions are very odd (mine has changed btw) and did have me wondering if this was a last man standing kinda game.

Changed? Care to elaborate? Also, care to give me that read on Largehorn?

[Crissi]

Ret: I have more issues with Xanjori to be honest. Between the dog piling and the agreements and now the change in win con, it just sits with me worse.

Vote: Xanjori

[PalawinFC]

Crackle is telling the truth. I tried to visit him on night 1 and failed.

That's what I was hinting at on day 2. Crackle said the paranoid trait matches his role which was very consistent with my attempt to visit him.

I might have been role blocked or bus driven but im pretty sure crackle is telling the truth.

- - - Updated - - -

I have more to say but I'm in the forest and have no signal.

I believe the following are town based on various information and reads: crackle, Listo, senna, rixis, Largehorn, Reticence.

I find Xanjori and Crissi the scummiest . Also wouldn't surprise me if danner teamed them up. However crisis vote on Xanjori throws a spanner in the works a little for me.


I'm character reading Graham as scum due to his laying relatively low.



All above is based on memory. It takes me about 5 minutes to load a page so I can't review things right now.

[Largehorn]

Weird word choice: "I'll consider Rixis a top 3 scum read but it isnt really a scum read"(#447). Mostly null with a slight town lean.

I read that request as who would I want to lynch today. So that's what I answered. I know it wasn't exactly what Palawin asked me but since I really only had two; I figured I'd be as honest as possible.

Also, I'm not really a fan of this Crackle train.

Honestly I'm not either but before I read to much into the people on it, I want to give people time to react to Crackle's claim.

Speaking of which: It's an interesting role for sure. Normally commuters aren't able to leave every night but Crackle "can". He's basically night kill immune. That's going to make his "claim" hard to test without lynching him. Humorously though, that really wants to make me lynch less. I don't agree with his playstyle up to this point because if he's not lying to us, I feel he should have been doing everything he could to draw a night kill to him since he's "immune" and he seems to me to be doing the opposite. All that said, I find myself oddly right now believing him. I wonder if that's the sleep deprivation talking or me just being paranoid about screwing up like I did with Kryllian. I need time to think on that. While that's happening I would really like @PalawinFC expressly to share your thoughts on Crackle's claim since last game day you "suddenly" read him as town. Maybe you could finally share those "hints" that convinced you.

Well, like I said: believe it or not, I'm largely ignoring my win condition in favor of a town win. That I'm suspicious of you is coincidental, and we'd get along fine if I trusted you more. I find the vanilla survivor win con interesting, though. Not sure what to think about that, yet.

I'm starting to think that the two of us distrusting each other is a good thing. I actually feel better about giving you information just to see how you'll react to it.

In the name of full disclosure, it's not exactly a "vanilla survivor" win con. People who claim a particular kind of trait that I share with them have to die for me to "win" but this also expressly called out that I was excluded. I'm reading that as "if you want to 'win', you can't die" which I think is a pretty fair interpretation.

Hm. Interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this, either -- partly because we can't be certain we're talking about the same thing, given the number of night actions that are undoubtedly flying around. Thanks for this info, though.

That's fair. Out of curiosity did your "visit" have anything to do with how the night "went" for you?

[PalawinFC]

I think the only other players I didn't mention above are Catta and Razamith. I'm having a lot of difficulty reading them at the moment.
If you held a gun to my head I'd say Catta is more likely to be scum than raza.

[Largehorn]

Crackle said the paranoid trait matches his role which was very consistent with my attempt to visit him.

Now that's interesting. I'm not sure how that exactly works. You'll need to explain your logic on that one once you get some place where you can actually make a full post.

[PalawinFC]

@PalawinFC expressly to share your thoughts on Crackle's claim since last game day you "suddenly" read him as town. Maybe you could finally share those "hints" that convinced you.

No kidding. I've been dying to say more for ages but didn't want to inform scum that Crackle could be kill immune.
I know we posted at the same time.. Just in case you don't see it, I did exactly this just above.

[Largehorn]

And before I forget to get one out there...

Claim: Addict

- - - Updated - - -

No kidding. I've been dying to say more for ages but didn't want to inform scum that Crackle could be kill immune.
I know we posted at the same time.. Just in case you don't see it, I did exactly this just above.

Yep I did.

[PalawinFC]

When I claimed Paranoid when I was leading train. I used it as a slight reveal to my role. Give hints, I obviously didn't want to reveal it outright then because that would be dumb. But I feel paranoid is a pretty strong indication of what I could be. I changed to nature lover because I didn't want to be just seen as 'Paranoid'.

This post by crackle convinced me he's town.

On night 1 I went to visit him and got told that nothing happened and someone may have interfered. At the time I thought ok I was blocked or he was jailed but then he made the above post and I thought it was too coincidental- he's almost surely a hider role.

I wanted to defend him but everything else he had done was scummy... I was trying tu get him to confirm for me subtly with this post :

I actually have a theory about this, crackle ... If I had a win condition to heckle all players who lied about a trait (not claiming I do, just theorising). I wouldn't be able to win, would I?

That took me so so long to write lol. Staying at an airbnb cottage in the forest for the weekend. Very little signal. I'll check again when we go into town for dinner tonight.


Meanwhile
Claim : criminal

[Reticence]

In the name of full disclosure, it's not exactly a "vanilla survivor" win con. People who claim a particular kind of trait that I share with them have to die for me to "win" but this also expressly called out that I was excluded. I'm reading that as "if you want to 'win', you can't die" which I think is a pretty fair interpretation.

Ah, I see. It could also just be a clarification that you do not have to get yourself killed to win, which is of course different from having to not die. My win condition doesn't even refer to myself beyond defining the train win condition and the apparently-standard "everyone who wants you dead" part. I had originally assumed that if I completed my objective and town won, I would win even if I died. Perhaps that assumption was incorrect, though.

... on that note, I do feel like a bit of an idiot, now. I originally interpreted the "everyone who wants you dead" portion of my card as being linked to and further defined by the part about the player leading the train on me -- though I thought it was strange/awkward to phrase it in that way. I now realize that it's separate, referring to everyone for whom I qualify as a kill target, in addition to my own kill targets. So, if you have the same thing on your card, it is now encouraging you to kill me, because you now know that my card is encouraging me to kill you.

Similarly, @listo95, if Crackle and Catta have the same thing then they now have reason to kill you, if for no other reason than because they know that you want to kill them.

That likely increases the length of many people's kill lists, so we're being pushed to fracture harder and faster than I thought. Honestly... I consider this additional evidence that we're meant to overcome these win conditions.

Unvote

No one should mistake this for a sign of trust. I like some of what you've posted today, but I'm still very suspicious of you.

That said, I cannot say with 100% certainty that my win condition has not made me biased against you. I also cannot, in good conscience, insist that everyone else ignore their win conditions for the sake of the town while my vote is sitting on the one player who qualifies for mine, even if I believe my suspicion to be objective. I need to go back and reassess my read before I pursue this any further.

Vote: Xanjori

That's fair. Out of curiosity did your "visit" have anything to do with how the night "went" for you?

Yes.

If you held a gun to my head I'd say Catta is more likely to be scum than raza.

Care to explain? I'm not sold on Catta, by any means, but I'd currently pick Raza over Catta for scum.

[Graeham]

Apologies for not posting sooner, my Friday night was unexpectedly crazy.

@Reticence: I'm inclined to read Palawin as being one of the good guys for now though that is, honestly, based more on a good feel than anything else. I can't really explain it, I'm afraid beyond saying none of his posts really rub me the wrong way.

As a more general statement, I'm inclined to agree with your theory that we're meant to overcome obstacles and distrust in favour of working together instead. I'll take a step back and put my trust in your judgement since I feel pretty out of my depth this time around and I've admittedly been thinking about the game from the perspective of a regular game - which is flawed given that it clearly isn't a regular game.

Unvote
Vote: Xanjori

Let's see what comes of this, if anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Graeham: Did not like that he stayed on large D1. If it had been anyone else Id feel better about it, but just seems rude to stay on a recent mod. Also on #219, he said he'd go back and revisit the monkz train and then never did (maybe he forgot?). Also curious on why he thinks Senna may be scum other than "she also said some things about me" (#314). I also didn't really like the suggestion (joking or not) of Kryllian maybe being an SK when we only had 1 NK at that point, so nothing to back that up.

As I stated earlier, I'm rusty. Bear in mind my original vote was on Arialla who I knew was going to be a problem because there's a definite track record of that being the case. It was also in line with my 'tackle the lurker problem on D1 whilst we can' approach which is typical of what I try to do on D1. When it didn't go anywhere I saw that Largehorn was a person of interest and switched my vote there without much thought.

...I also didn't intend on voting Monkz, so I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I wanted to revisit it. As for my jab at Kryllian you seem to be twisting that around rather conveniently. I quoted him making a comment on D1 about serial killers because on D2 he admitted to having access to a kill. It was a possible lead that I felt had been overlooked and it stood out to me.

I guess I can't get a break either way though. When I'm cautious it's me 'laying low' and when I'm poking around and trying to find evidence others may have overlooked - even if they turn out to be false leads - it's 'scummy'.

[Rixis]

[MENTION=1246354]Rixis: I really have anything here, although I give credit for giving credit to Kryllian credit, due to having a shared trait, and the reasoning is sound. Otherwise, lots of trait discussion. Curious about post #443. Unless you were being targeted in a conversation (which I havent seen beyond some bare analysis), don't know why you'd admit you were the one that saved someone.

Ahh, but I did not say that

- - - Updated - - -
@Crackleslap

I'm gonna kick myself in the balls when I say this, but if your story is you have anxiety and paranoia and thus afraid of people, your night action is to "run away and be immune", why did you visit dupti last night?

[PalawinFC]

Care to explain? I'm not sold on Catta, by any means, but I'd currently pick Raza over Catta for scum.

I think the way hes treating the fake trait and win con thing without any seriousness rubs me the wrong way.

- - - Updated - - -

Ahh, but I did not say that

- - - Updated - - -
@Crackleslap

I'm gonna kick myself in the balls when I say this, but if your story is you have anxiety and paranoia and thus afraid of people, your night action is to "run away and be immune", why did you visit dupti last night?

Well that's interesting.

- - - Updated - - -
@Rixis are you saying you're not the vigi that killed Arialla?

- - - Updated - - -

If rixis is tracker - possible bus driver redirected rixis to track someone who visited dupti. It would be weird for scum to direct rixis to track the person they sent to kill dupti.
If rixis is watcher - crackle has to be lying about being a commuter.
My night 1 info could still be consistent with being blocked, jailed, bus driven. It would also be consistent if he's a goon. I just discounted this because it was so unlikely that he would hint at being a commuter.

I think you're going to have come all the way out rixis. I can't see anything crackle can say that will assist things.

- - - Updated - - -

Well that's interesting.

- - - Updated - - -
@Rixis are you saying you're not the vigi that killed Arialla?.

Fuck DO NOT ANSWER THAT!

- - - Updated - - -

Do not say you killed Arialla. You'll become the subject of someone win con if you claim a kill. I can't remember who.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason I asked if you were vigi - when Arialla died I assumed you were the other vigi because you claimed armed with a gun.

[Rixis]

I'm glad I've given you an aneurysm

- - - Updated - - -

I do not have a kill action, as I stated when I claimed my gun. My roleplay is I am a gun fanatic, like proper off the rocker. Which is funny given I have no kill

I'm a watcher (as you'll have worked out), I watched Reti first night but nobody visited (or something prevented me seeing), so the roleplay he got was probably something akin too feeling as if he was being watched etc.

I watched dupti the second night and was told Crackle and someone else visited him.

I do know the other person, and if Crackle flips town, you can be sure I'm probably going to get killed tonight to prevent me outing that person tomorrow, but given Crackle's claim, and how many town we've lost, plus the potential misinterpretation of my night action (a doctor or blackmailer or you know, whatever other roles danner could think of) could have visited that person, and my outing any of them could be bad for town.

[Crackleslap]

Gonna have to ask Danner about that one Rixis. Or the person that controlled me. Seeing as its detrimental to be claiming my role, this is going to hurt even more. I've been affected by some sort of curse. Which prevents me from doing my ACTION this coming night. Might have something to do with it.

[PalawinFC]

How would a curse affect last night's action?

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna have to ask Danner about that one Rixis. Or the person that controlled me. Seeing as its detrimental to be claiming my role, this is going to hurt even more. I've been affected by some sort of curse. Which prevents me from doing my ACTION this coming night. Might have something to do with it.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

- - - Updated - - -

When were you affected by curse?
If the curse prevents you from using your action on night 3,how could it make you visit someone in night 2?

[Crackleslap]

How would a curse affect last night's action?

- - - Updated - - -



This makes no sense whatsoever.

- - - Updated - - -

When were you affected by curse?
If the curse prevents you from using your action on night 3,how could it make you visit someone in night 2?

the idea is someone visited me last night. I'm theorizing it may have this curse effect left behind. Or perhpas I was visited by two people.

Notice I did not use my action last night. Hence I was able to be targeted.

[Xanjori]

I mean whatever, at least I read enough through Kryllians posts to see that his story had changed. That gave me good enough reasoning to think he was lying and had made a mistake.

The fact that certain other people seem to think unvoting because "Well he definitely looks like scum, but we should keep him alive one more day!" is town-like suggests this isnt a game worth wasting my time on.

Yeah my win-con changed, I don't know why it changed, but I recieved an updated role-card. I can only assume because I somehow gained or was given a hat.

- - - Updated - - -

Claim: Stylish

[PalawinFC]

the idea is someone visited me last night. I'm theorizing it may have this curse effect left behind. Or perhpas I was visited by two people.

Notice I did not use my action last night. Hence I was able to be targeted.

Why not use your ability last night?