Ayn Rand is dead. Liberals will miss her.

[starlord]

The old school was about growing the economy for the benefit of all, but focused on fattening the wallets of those at the top in the long run. The new school is more of that sentiment but relies on using nationalist populism instead of globalism to convince the masses that crony capitalism benefits them. It won't last long because they're writing checks they can't cash. Nationalism won't bring back jobs and will usher in a wave of more automation and A.I. based production. The question is if the left is smart enough to form a coalition with the moderate right to fix the things Trumpism is bound to break.

i would argue that the economy is not actually their focus at all, considering how little they mention it, and how little action (so far) has been done. deregulation yes, but we've seen that before. They instead focus on the nationalism and xenophobia, and make the strongest pushes for those issues.

the economy was just used to dupe the "moderate" working class into changing sides.

But yea, thats why I wonder if there will be some kind of "center right" coaltion forming.

[Super Kami Dende]

2. Conservatives shitting on women and minorities is nothing new.

I find it ironic that I see more Conservatives these days treat Women with respect than Progressives do.

[PC2]

Despite gaining traction, it is a dying paradigm that will disappear once the free market neoliberal establishment is finally recognized as the root of the problem and eradicated

The alt right won't last, they are on the fringe of a society that has steadily become more tolerant and world-conscious

That's impossible. The alt-right never dies, it only changes forms.

Is Skroe a conservative?

It's subjective and anyone can identify how they want. But as for actual voting choices he said he votes Republican on the state and local level in Massachusetts.

[Glorious Leader]

Objectivism only received any attention because it was useful for and adopted by a handful of incredible wealthy elites. It was never taken very seriously in philosophical circles and she woukd have been unknown but for the millions spent to keep her relevant.

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Alt right is a direct byproduct of the conservative right polices, not an ideological shift

Despite gaining traction, it is a dying paradigm that will disappear once the free market neoliberal establishment is finally recognized as the root of the problem and eradicated

The alt right won't last, they are on the fringe of a society that has steadily become more tolerant and world-conscious

Well said. /10

[Snorkles]

I find it ironic that I see more Conservatives these days treat Women with respect than Progressives do.

The very fact that Trump has just been elected suggests that may not be true.

[downnola]

i would argue that the economy is not actually their focus at all, considering how little they mention it, and how little action (so far) has been done. deregulation yes, but we've seen that before. They instead focus on the nationalism and xenophobia, and make the strongest pushes for those issues.

the economy was just used to dupe the "moderate" working class into changing sides.

But yea, thats why I wonder if there will be some kind of "center right" coaltion forming.

The xenophobia is largely influenced by the economy; it doesn't exist in a vacuum imo. The economy was already on the decline during the early 2000's, but the '08 crash wiped out a good deal of the lower middle class's capital. They lost jobs, homes, and were left with a ton of debt. Immigrants, illegal or otherwise, make a great scapegoat in that situation. There are a lot of racist shitbags out there, but Trump won because of the rust belt and economic anxiety mostly, and it's that same anxiety combined with last year's terror attacks that fueled Brexit and EU's sudden obsession with nationalism.

As far as a center-right coalition forming; I hope so. I'd certainly do my part if it existed.

[starlord]

Objectivism only received any attention because it was useful for and adopted by a handful of incredible wealthy elites. It was never taken very seriously in philosophical circles and she woukd have been unknown but for the millions spent to keep her relevant.

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Well said. /10

those few wealthy elite had a lot of influence, however (see koch brothers etc). Heck fox news was originally supposed to be their platform to push their ideas onto the masses even. they nurtured the whole "anyone whos not rich just isnt trying hard enough" narrative. they had always courted the racists and super religious, but not seriously until the tea party came along and ended up taking over.

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I find it ironic that I see more Conservatives these days treat Women with respect than Progressives do.

"Grab her by the pussy!"

- Donald J. Trump, President.

[Deleted]

I find it ironic that I see more Conservatives these days treat Women with respect than Progressives do.

got anymore of dem unverifiable feels-based opinions ?

[starlord]

The xenophobia is largely influenced by the economy; it doesn't exist in a vacuum imo. The economy was already on the decline during the early 2000's, but the '08 crash wiped out a good deal of the lower middle class's capital. They lost jobs, homes, and were left with a ton of debt. Immigrants, illegal or otherwise, make a great scapegoat in that situation. There are a lot of racist shitbags out there, but Trump won because of the rust belt and economic anxiety mostly, and it's that same anxiety combined with last year's terror attacks that fueled Brexit and EU's sudden obsession with nationalism.

As far as a center-right coalition forming; I hope so. I'd certainly do my part if it existed.

i would say the middle class's decline was driven by these Randian philosophies being put into practice.

[Sykol]

Wasn't Rand all anti-welfare and then ended up being a welfare queen?

[Stacyrect]

Interesting article I saw the other day.
Excerpts:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...g-to-miss-her/

TL;DR
the young right of today are morphing in a totally (and nearly opposite direction) of their forebears.

Where the old school was all about money and enabling business to screw the public at the cost of... literally anything else, the new school is about authortarian domination of women and minorities.

Where will the vestiges of the Randians go? They were notably against el trumpo early on, but seem to be using him as a distraction to quietly push their ideas in their death throes.
But what exactly is the future of the repubs? To go from anarcho-capitalists (in their most extreme incarnation) to neo-fascists is a big leap.
And where does that leave the dems and the left? Before we could at least reason with the right and use their greed as a leverage. Now... they are devoid of rationality.

So, what is the future of "conservatism" in the US?

LOL at neo fascism. Sorry can't take anything you said seriously.

[downnola]

i would say the middle class's decline was driven by these Randian philosophies being put into practice.

I would say you're right considering that Greenspan is/was a self-described acolyte of Ayn Rand and laid the groundwork for the housing bubble. I'm an economic right-winger, but I'm no follower of Ayn Rand. I consider her work chloroform in print.

[Super Kami Dende]

got anymore of dem unverifiable feels-based opinions ?

Depends, does the person I replied to have any of "dem" either?

I mostly see it due to most conservative Guys I know just see Women as Equals. Whereas progressives see them as downtrodden Victims.

Nothing more condescending than telling someone they are a Victim when they aren't.

[Celista]

I find it ironic that I see more Conservatives these days treat Women with respect than Progressives do.

Please, let's hear your explanation as to why you feel that way.

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Depends, does the person I replied to have any of "dem" either?

I mostly see it due to most conservative Guys I know just see Women as Equals. Whereas progressives see them as downtrodden Victims.

Nothing more condescending than telling someone they are a Victim when they aren't.

Nothing is more condescending than telling someone they aren't treated differently based on gender, race or sexual orientation/pretending the problem doesn't exist because you're not affected by it personally.

[Deleted]

Friedman did a better job at beating young socialists.

It beats nothing

It just operates under the usual assumption that individuals are solely driven by the perspective of material gain

Communities like open source/biohackers/etc have top tier skillsets and are known to often produce greater quality material than private companies for free (operating systems, assistive technology, infosec...)

lol @ 3:48 too

[starlord]

I would say you're right considering that Greenspan is/was a self-described acolyte of Ayn Rand and laid the groundwork for the housing bubble. I'm an economic right-winger, but I'm no follower of Ayn Rand. I consider her work chloroform in print.

it makes for some interesting possibilities. but the concept seems a little too complex for a meme-obsessed working/middle class to comprehend. waiting for people to educate themselves seems like a futile hope.

how could it be communicated, i wonder?

[May90]

I think the author both exaggerates the numbers of xenophobic reactionary nuts (don't look at this forum for statistics, gaming communities have always had a much larger representation of them than in the real world), and exaggerates the numbers of people supporting Ayn's ideology in the past. Both of these are very far away from the mainstream, and the Republican mainstream isn't and has never been either of the two. As someone who gives a lot of credit to her ideas, I must admit that in my life I barely met anyone who would subscribe to them.

It's just that right now Republicans are bowing to their new god, while Democrats don't seem to be able to come up with something other than trying to block their projects. In this sense, both parties kinda went downhill. But I fail to see how Rand's ideas being more popular would change the political inter-fighting and boot-licking.

[PC2]

Wasn't Rand all anti-welfare and then ended up being a welfare queen?

No clue, but even if there was evidence beyond hearsay it still wouldn't be inconsistent. Acting in your own self-interest while draining the state welfare system which you believe doesn't work properly is a pretty good plan.

[alexw]

LOL at neo fascism. Sorry can't take anything you said seriously.

What a coincidence! Nobody takes anything you say seriously either.

[NED funded]

It beats nothing

It just operate under the usual assumption that individuals are solely driven by the perspective of material gain

Communities like open source/biohackers/etc have top tier skillsets and are known to often produce greater quality material than private companies for free (operating systems, assistive technology, infosec...)

His assumption doesn't need to apply to everyone. Just to a large enough group.