WoW is now Pay2Win

[cuafpr]

lol they were selling MC runs in vanilla your point? Hell i used to sell UBRS door openings, and then charge extra if they wanted me to stay and heal it for them......

[elrot]

Let's also all ignore the fact that anything you can buy with gold, you can also do yourself by playing the game how it's meant to be played. You can get that same gear by progressing yourself without buying a carry. It's not pay to win, because it's not necessary to buy anything. And the real-world currency-gold thing is irrelevant. Gold does not equal actual money just because of tokens. It's earned by playing the game, and spending it on something in the game is not paying to win.

Not to mention any multiplayer game with a more-or-less free marketplace will have this kind of thing happen. Does that mean they're all play to win?

[Deleted]

You guys see it. Nowadays people buy M+15 key carries for their weekly 900ilvl item, and they also buy weekly Nighthold "boost". Whether they pay with real world currency or in game currency makes no difference. Its Pay2win this game

Seems you simply don't know what pay to win means. Pay to win means buying something with real life currency in order to get an edge (power boost) on someone that does not pay for it. What you are describing is more in line with pay to advance, you pay to make bigger leaps instead of going through conventional and slower means, but it does not make you win at the game because you'll be behind or at most, equal to someone else that doesn't buy it.

[melodramocracy]

If it's not necessary to purchase in order to advance in the game (it's not), it's not pay to win.

Let me ask you... if Blizzard sold legendaries / raid tier gear on the cash shop, would you be ok with that?

[Charge me Doctor]

How do you win wow exactly?

[Baelic]

It is pay2win coz Blizzard sells gold vis wowtoken purchases, and that gold is used to buy boosts which indirectly give gear. If this is not pay2win by blizzard, then what is. You do not require skill or stature, you just buy gold then buy boost, whoa u get 900 ilvl item. Buy gold buy Nighthold on masterloot, whoa u get tier set. And blizzard sells that gold...

No, it isn't. Anyone can acquire a 900 ilevel if they work hard enough at it, there is no "you can't this gear unless you pay."

On top of that, WoW-Tokens essentially exchange $$ for someone else's gold. No new gold is created, Blizzard gets a slight profit, and Blizzard determines how much each Token is worth in Gold.

And on top of ALL of that, you still require a group capable of carrying you into Mythic Nighthold or M+ 15, and that is willing to do so for gold. (Paying directly with $$ is against the ToS, and I will never endorse it)

If anything, and this is even a stretch, it'd be "pay for convenience" but in all honesty there's nothing wrong with this. They're achieving the exact same thing you could, just through different means.

[Gouca]

LOL

WoW isn't P2W. P2W means you purchase something off its developer for real currency that gives you advantage over others. You do understand the people you buy your dungeon boosts from couldn't buy it from anyone? Hence it's not P2W.

[melodramocracy]

No Blizzard does not sell gold. Really.

They indirectly do. I don't even see how that's debatable.

[lukoil]

Let me ask you... if Blizzard sold legendaries / raid tier gear on the cash shop, would you be ok with that?

Nope. But they don't do that. And never will. So. What was your point?

[elrot]

Let me ask you... if Blizzard sold legendaries / raid tier gear on the cash shop, would you be ok with that?

>Blizzard isn't pay to win, but if it was would you be ok with that?

Seriously? It's not happening, so it's completely irrelevant. Let's not further dilute this argument with ridiculous hypothetical scenarios and rather stay on topic.

[StationaryHawk]

Implying that people haven't been selling raid clears since Vanilla? Carries in arena since Burning Crusade?

[Jujudrood]

These things were sold (dungeon/raid runs) back in vanilla and became more prominent in BC/Wrath as the populace grew.
900 ilvl items don't increase player skill, though, so these players aren't "winning".
Nothing new here.

[Caelia]

I was waiting for one of these threads to pop up when Blizzard said buying a carry with in game gold was OK. We were doing gold runs back in ICC before there was a token, but I guess it's different this this time.

Yeah we used to do them back in BWL in vanilla and all raids except Sunwell in TBC.

[Deleted]

content is so easy no idea why people buy it get carried through.

The idea of difficulty and content is that you do it and not pay for it to let someone else clear it for you.

Why would people pay a monthly fee and then pay even more to get the fun taken away from them?


WoW is not pay2win and the reason it is not pay2win is because you paying for stuff is third party and if you pay for it you actually lose instead of winning. It is like buying a trophy somebody else won. On our server people who have been carried through raids are branded (if people notice it) and no better guild is ever going to take them.

[Cazz17]

It's pay to win if you're not good enough to do it yourself.

[HordeFanboy]

You guys see it. Nowadays people buy M+15 key carries for their weekly 900ilvl item, and they also buy weekly Nighthold "boost". Whether they pay with real world currency or in game currency makes no difference. Its Pay2win this game

Check definition of P2W.

[Deleted]

It is pay2win coz Blizzard sells gold vis wowtoken purchases, and that gold is used to buy boosts which indirectly give gear. If this is not pay2win by blizzard, then what is.

No it DIRECTLY gives gear as when you buy a boost you are GUARANTEED X numbers of loot depending of what you payed. And as anyone with an drop of logic will realize, the AH is actually now a form of P2W. It wasn't always the case, as it used to be that it was illegal by blizz to buy gold for real life money but now blizz allows it ONLY on its own platform...where it can make a profit.

So yea, as in any f2p game we say if you can buy money from store and spend money only on mounts and xmogs its not pay to win, but if you can buy money from store and then use money to buy 900ilvl+ gear via boosts and via auction house boes aswell as mandatory consumables/enchants/gems/etc AND mandatory achievs that will get you invited to groups and are also obtained via gold boosts...

now waiting for fanboys to say: so what just work and make good irl money and sell tokens and win as if theres no problem

[Lochton]

You guys see it. Nowadays people buy M+15 key carries for their weekly 900ilvl item, and they also buy weekly Nighthold "boost". Whether they pay with real world currency or in game currency makes no difference. Its Pay2win this game

Uhm, no. WoW can appear Pay2Win because people are breaking the ToS. Sorry, not Blizzard's fault that there's greed and laziness about.

As for in-game currency, normal and nothing new.

[MechaCThun]

I'd expect better from a 5 year member.

Then again, with only 24 posts since 2011...

[Gouca]

On our server people who have been carried through raids are branded (if people notice it) and no better guild is ever going to take them.

I don't think you should be making these ridiculous statements on behalf of proper raiding guilds. Every tier of raiding is the same, nobody "brands" people for not wasting time progressing every tier.