PTR Hero changes

[Deleted]

McCree is not a good counter to pharah as he has a low rate of fire, his damage drops off at range, can't stun at range and has no escape when the missiles come raining down. If he hits every shot he does okay but even missing once puts McCree so far behind the ball. Roadhogs hook is an okay counter at medium range but pharah can be right on top of you and still be at long range.

Soldier is an ideal counter. Zen is pretty good too but no escape if the pharah bears down on him.

Anna is getting nerfed. Tracer doesn't have the range. Bastion is not terrible but still has range drop off issues and his mobility issues makes pharah his counter. Snipers can be good.

Here's the issue with pharah, if your team takes a soldier to counter pharah all the opposing team has to do is kill the soldier and pharah runs rampant until soldier gets back on the rest of the team so the entire other team focuses on killing soldier and Pharah runs Uncountered for the entire game. Soldier can't focus on the sky and 5 other opponents.

I would like to see them add another character with a jump pack and a medium ranged hit scan weapon for fun air battles and a more natural counter to pharah. Give them less air time than pharah and a play style where they leap up and into combat to shoot faces then leap away.

But you're talking about a more long range Pharah where only a Widow is effective against her. This Pharah playstyle is more of an annoyance and does trash damage. Even then there's not a lot of places in any maps where you can just spam missiles from a distance. In most maps if you play the objective, you will be in distance of a McCree. And I'm rather up against a very good Widow than a McCree who just does not miss.

I play the lurk and pounce Pharah. I get into the faces of healers or other squishies, rek them, then get out quickly. I find it boring to be at distance and be annoying. I rather be scary to the other team, which is something I get to hear quite often (I play at end Master/Grandmaster level). And at that skill level, you will be up against really good McCrees and Widows. I don't see a lot of Pharah's who play like me, so I don't agree with a Pharah nerf in anyway because she's so damn difficult to be effective at. And no, I don't like to have a Mercy permanently dmg boosting me, I only ask for that specifically if we're just stuck (First point Eichenwalde for instance) because I know how devastating it can be, and extremely difficult to take out.

I also don't agree with an airborne anti Pharah hit scan hero. I find it a lot of fun to be in a duel with another Pharah. Aslong as there's no interference from other people I think it's one of the most fun same hero 1 on 1 you can have in the game right now.

[Endus]

But you're talking about a more long range Pharah where only a Widow is effective against her. This Pharah playstyle is more of an annoyance and does trash damage. Even then there's not a lot of places in any maps where you can just spam missiles from a distance. In most maps if you play the objective, you will be in distance of a McCree. And I'm rather up against a very good Widow than a McCree who just does not miss.

I play the lurk and pounce Pharah. I get into the faces of healers or other squishies, rek them, then get out quickly. I find it boring to be at distance and be annoying. I rather be scary to the other team, which is something I get to hear quite often (I play at end Master/Grandmaster level). And at that skill level, you will be up against really good McCrees and Widows. I don't see a lot of Pharah's who play like me, so I don't agree with a Pharah nerf in anyway because she's so damn difficult to be effective at. And no, I don't like to have a Mercy permanently dmg boosting me, I only ask for that specifically if we're just stuck (First point Eichenwalde for instance) because I know how devastating it can be, and extremely difficult to take out.

I also don't agree with an airborne anti Pharah hit scan hero. I find it a lot of fun to be in a duel with another Pharah. Aslong as there's no interference from other people I think it's one of the most fun same hero 1 on 1 you can have in the game right now.

The biggest issue with Pharah is that her "counters" aren't, for the most part, counters. Widowmaker is about the only one that really fits the bill. Possibly the new Bastion, played well. Soldier 76 and McCree suffer from relatively low health and needing to land several shots to take Pharah down; a smart Pharah is just as aware of them as they are of her, and her rockets are just as line-of-sight as their guns. They can't attack her without making themselves vulnerable, and even if they're dancing in and out of cover, Pharah can wear them down with splash damage, while they have to re-target her constantly after losing line of sight, which is advantage: Pharah.

Soldier 76 and McCree are considered "counters" because they can shoot back at her, unlike heroes like Reaper, but an equally-skilled Pharah has at least a reasonable shot of killing them both before they can kill her, or just dropping out of sight when they try and take her out.

Really, we just need more hitscan heroes with some range. Orisa will help, as will New Bastion.

[Woobels]

The biggest issue with Pharah is that her "counters" aren't, for the most part, counters. Widowmaker is about the only one that really fits the bill. Possibly the new Bastion, played well. Soldier 76 and McCree suffer from relatively low health and needing to land several shots to take Pharah down; a smart Pharah is just as aware of them as they are of her, and her rockets are just as line-of-sight as their guns. They can't attack her without making themselves vulnerable, and even if they're dancing in and out of cover, Pharah can wear them down with splash damage, while they have to re-target her constantly after losing line of sight, which is advantage: Pharah.

Soldier 76 and McCree are considered "counters" because they can shoot back at her, unlike heroes like Reaper, but an equally-skilled Pharah has at least a reasonable shot of killing them both before they can kill her, or just dropping out of sight when they try and take her out.

Really, we just need more hitscan heroes with some range. Orisa will help, as will New Bastion.

Hitting Pharah with Orisa is a nightmare, she's projectile and they go slower than you'd think from first glance.

Unless you meant the extra shields and her ult helping your hitscan heroes etc.

[Dug]

Sounds like a huge ana nerf but kinda glad in a way. Tired of being asked to play her when we need another healer. I'm absolute shit at her

[Endus]

Hitting Pharah with Orisa is a nightmare, she's projectile and they go slower than you'd think from first glance.

Unless you meant the extra shields and her ult helping your hitscan heroes etc.

I know her shots have travel time, but the density she can hose in Pharah's direction can at least harass Pharah more effectively than any other tank could. Probably won't get a KILL, mind you, but it makes Pharah's life a little more annoying.

[Graeham]

Ana was just too good - and that was reflected by her being a primary pick in most serious competitive matches. Even in quick play her biotic grenade, sleep dart and regular attacks combine to punish those who catch her unaware a little too much. Now for Ana to be effective her teammates will need to spend more time looking out for her - which is how it should work where support heroes are concerned.

[Pendulous]

how is it with the normal grenade dmg? doest junk still get dmg from is own?

Nope, nothing he does can hurt himself anymore.

[Dug]

Nope, nothing he does can hurt himself anymore.

That sounds... pretty broken honestly but we'll see. He's not tanky at least but point blank grenade spam would do obscene amounts of damage.

[Pendulous]

That sounds... pretty broken honestly but we'll see. He's not tanky at least but point blank grenade spam would do obscene amounts of damage.

It makes him playable at close ranges. Risking killing yourself in any kind of non-open area made him very selective. He's intended to counter Bastion and all the shields that will be around, he needs the change, and frankly, it's a long time coming.

[Temp name]

I'd like to see a slight reduction in reload speed for Orissa (maybe 10% or so), but I can understand the nerfs to her, at least the ult cost increase.

[Deleted]

The biggest issue with Pharah is that her "counters" aren't, for the most part, counters. Widowmaker is about the only one that really fits the bill. Possibly the new Bastion, played well. Soldier 76 and McCree suffer from relatively low health and needing to land several shots to take Pharah down; a smart Pharah is just as aware of them as they are of her, and her rockets are just as line-of-sight as their guns. They can't attack her without making themselves vulnerable, and even if they're dancing in and out of cover, Pharah can wear them down with splash damage, while they have to re-target her constantly after losing line of sight, which is advantage: Pharah.

Soldier 76 and McCree are considered "counters" because they can shoot back at her, unlike heroes like Reaper, but an equally-skilled Pharah has at least a reasonable shot of killing them both before they can kill her, or just dropping out of sight when they try and take her out.

Really, we just need more hitscan heroes with some range. Orisa will help, as will New Bastion.

I get what you're coming from, and I somewhat agree. Widowmaker is the one to disable long range Pharah's. If you can get close, you can disable her. But even then, that can be hard since the better Widows will just hookshot back up into the sky and take a shot.

If you're in a 1v1 with a McCree, he has basicly 12 shots with his roll. In most cases more than enough to kill a Pharah at close to medium range.

A soldier is tricky to take out if he's standing on his healing field. Only way to properly out DPS him is with direct hits.

I just can't identify with the Pharah issues people talk about. Maybe it's because of my overly aggressive Pharah playstyle, I like to get up and close in their faces. And after playing in these brackets for a while, I see some recurring names (Mostly McCrees) that I know will kinda disable my Pharah.

Anyway, regarding the upcoming patch and nerf to Ana, we'll see even more Mercy's than now. And I'm kinda scared of Pharmercy incoming. I have 250+ hours as Pharah and I know how scary it is. I just hope Pharah don't get the nerfbat because of this. I don't like to have a Mercy on me 24/7. It feels cheap to me. Fun for once, but I do feel dirty.

Ana dmg output needs to stay the same.

[Endus]

Anyway, regarding the upcoming patch and nerf to Ana, we'll see even more Mercy's than now. And I'm kinda scared of Pharmercy incoming. I have 250+ hours as Pharah and I know how scary it is. I just hope Pharah don't get the nerfbat because of this. I don't like to have a Mercy on me 24/7. It feels cheap to me. Fun for once, but I do feel dirty.

Ana dmg output needs to stay the same.

Yeah, dealing with enemy Widows and Pharahs is 80% of what I use Ana damage for (other than random spamming). Hosing that is just . . . not good. If anything, she needed her direct healing toned down slightly along with the grenade, not her personal damage.

[t1saif]

Sombra
Hack
Hacked healthpacks can now be seen through walls for her allies.


Zenyatta
Orb of Destruction
Weapon spread removed.


We also have another build in the works, that will probably hit some time tomorrow. This build will include these changes:

Ana
Biotic Grenade
Impact damage and healing reverted to live values


Zenyatta
Orb of Discord
Targeting through barriers has been reverted

[Jessicka]

Seems reasonable. Thought the hit to Ana's survivabilty might be a bit much, and Orb through barriers would be ridiculous for Pharah and flankers.

Not sure what the value is in seeing health packs, they're not going to make me run half the map to get to them, and good Sombras would hack the key ones anyway so you didn't need to look. I guess it's something people asked for for a while though so maybe.

[Pendulous]

Hey look, that move that barely had any spread that was rarely used anyway now doesn't have any spread that it didn't really have anyway, so people will still continue to not use it.

Come on. Zenyatta's alt-fire is still garbage. Yeah, there's those really, really rare times where you turn a corner and unleash it, but really, who cares? You can throw more balls than you unleash in the time it charges up.

[Deleted]

Ana has no escape, nerfing her self heal I feel is over doing it. Her damage nerf seems reasonable.

Junkrat buff should have been here day 1 but it honestly doesn't change his place in life

Sombra buff is dumb, she shouldn't say anything coming out of stealth it's stupid

Winston finally got half his barrier back, now if only they buffed it back to it's original health

Zens alt fire buff is cool I guess but it still sucks because it's not hit scan, if you want all shots to connect you have to stand still and be a giant target.

I never use alt fire on Zen unless to piss off some Rhein with barrier up. I find the charge up time to take ages and is really ineffective against moving targets.

[Jessicka]

Hey look, that move that barely had any spread that was rarely used anyway now doesn't have any spread that it didn't really have anyway, so people will still continue to not use it.

Come on. Zenyatta's alt-fire is still garbage. Yeah, there's those really, really rare times where you turn a corner and unleash it, but really, who cares? You can throw more balls than you unleash in the time it charges up.

I care. If I ever get killed by Zen, that's how it happens. Oddly when I use it, I need the spread to hit anything.

[Woobels]

Seems reasonable. Thought the hit to Ana's survivabilty might be a bit much, and Orb through barriers would be ridiculous for Pharah and flankers.

Not sure what the value is in seeing health packs, they're not going to make me run half the map to get to them, and good Sombras would hack the key ones anyway so you didn't need to look. I guess it's something people asked for for a while though so maybe.

Just makes it slightly easier for team members to see I guess, lots of people still don't know the benefits of taking a Sombra health pack lol.

[Jessicka]

Just makes it slightly easier for team members to see I guess, lots of people still don't know the benefits of taking a Sombra health pack lol.

I had a very appreciative Sombra when I sat my 20hp Meka on a hacked pack.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

A nice change to junkrat, but it doesn't really improve his state in the game currently. It makes him less... well, suicidal while attempting to take on/flee a tank from close range, but the pesky blue bird and the Russian are still enormous problems.

What other changes do you think he needs?

- - - Updated - - -

Ana
Biotic Grenade
Impact damage and healing reverted to live values

Sigh. It's always either black or white with Blizzard. So tired of it. Hope this isn't the final change.