Mythic+ destroying casual guilds?

[Neldarie]

Why should infinitely repeatable thing give better things than limited one? Or even close to that. Answer is: it shouldn't. Because it makes a lot of things toxic and hard to balance.
Oh wait. I described Legion right now. Let's add even more stupid system in 7.2.

Because it doesnt? Go back to math. That's comming from someone who did more m+ than 99.9% of the playerbase. With that idiotic statement of yours you can also just say go and farm WQs/LFRs/Normals/Heroics and so on which is also "infinite amount" of shot at titanforging upgrades into 900+ ilvls....

And there is no point to even start talking about actual "gamebreaking" items like trinkets/tiersetbonuses. Where inferior ilvl beats most/all stuff from m+.

[Deleted]

LFRs/Normals/Heroics

Wow, it's being cleared by efficient raider as well. Are you surprised?

[Aureli]

At this point going m+ instead of some raids would be choice

[Flazian]

It worked perfectly before the Legion, why shouldn't it work now?

Lol in what universe were you living in? Better/more dedicated players always get tired of carrying around joe schmoe who logs on 2-3 times a week for raid, doesn't put in outside effort to learning their class and flails around doing suboptimal dps while dying to fire on the floor. Unless the raid has a strong core of good friends, what is happening to OP's guild is something that has happened since WoW started--it is probably the most common cause of death for raiding guilds in general besides officers quitting.

[judgementofantonidas]

For several years now I've been with a guild that consists of adults with normal lives, jobs, children, basically most of the members' gametime was limited.
We're not the best players and we are ok with it but we've tend to progress at a steady rate through normal & heroic each tier 4 hours over 2 nights a week for years.
Legion/mythic+ killed all of that.

The problem that arose is that a smaller part of members that did have more playtime was together in Mythic+ all the time which created this gear/ap/legendary rift.
We went from steadily going through bosses on normal over the period of some weeks, gearing everybody up to having a part of our raid completely overgearing it and blowing through normal in 1 or 2 resets.
This sent us into heroic sooner then we were used to, and hitting gear roadblocks because the bigger part of the raid just wasn't ready for it. For the first time (as far as I can remember) this caused people being benched because of requirements which started a snowball effect. The top-end wasn't happy because they were having to carry people, the lower end felt frustrated because they just didn't have the time to ever catch up. People were quitting in droves because they felt they weren't bringing anything anymore to the raidteam. We lost so many people in the 6-7 months of legion the call came in recently to quit raiding, a guild that has been going for almost 10 years.

Kind of agree. Witnessing the same thing in my guild where there is a group of 5-7 who are getting at least a 13 weekly and then the rest of the raid that shows up on raid night.

[Neldarie]

Wow, it's being cleared by efficient raider as well. Are you surprised?

Are you replying just to fit your avatar? Cuz I pretty much contradicted all the bullshit you said earlier. And your last reply was just out of nowhere and totally offtopic.

Back to the topic: M+ is bonus content that nobody "needs" to do. Treat it like Diablo3 rifting. Do 0-2000 w-e fits your play/boat/life. Blaming game content on your shortcommings when it comes to picking people/guild/community to play with is just childish.

[mstg]

what? it has always been this way, more time for the game equals more success. If you dont have 54 traits and a few Legendaries by now then i dont know what to say. Btw you wont ever need Mythic Plus gear if u have normal nighthold gear.

[Deleted]

I pretty much contradicted all the bullshit

No. You just showed your clown nature and said bunch of random world.
M+ you can farm infinitely and get mythic raid quality gear.
All the other things you can only farm once per week. Even LFRs.
So you said really stupid thing and think you proved anything. Haha.

Lol in what universe were you living in?.

In a real world. You are living in a world of fantasies where you are probably Method-worthy player, but too cool to prove it. No time, right?

[Neldarie]

So yes, you're an idiot and there is no point in proving you wrong because you lack any sense of reality.
Infracted

[Deleted]

So you said something that defies logic and call someone who pointed it out an idiot? You'll go far, boy.
Infracted;

[kamuimac]

Are you replying just to fit your avatar? Cuz I pretty much contradicted all the bullshit you said earlier. And your last reply was just out of nowhere and totally offtopic.

Back to the topic: M+ is bonus content that nobody "needs" to do. Treat it like Diablo3 rifting. Do 0-2000 w-e fits your play/boat/life. Blaming game content on your shortcommings when it comes to picking people/guild/community to play with is just childish.

ofc he is - that why basic rule is to never feed troll - just mass report him and be done with it

its quite obvious that either on 99 % he is trolling or 1% he nver raided before because then he would know that sometimes even 1 player leaving (who was to tired of underperformance of others ) caused guidls to implode soon after

[Hottage]

Sounds like more like a mindset-issue than a Mythic+ issue. You have guild members hungry for - and able to commit to - more serious gear progression.

For whatever reason they stayed with the guild and were satisfied with the progress gear wise in raids.

Now they have an outlet for their extra desire for gear progression which isn't reliant on guild progress and they've taken it. This isn't the content's fault, it's the mindset of your guild mates.

[Super Kami Dende]

HOw is it any different from when some Guildies would farm badges of justice for IQD ilvl gear then had people in raids just wearing Kara gear?

Different people play differently and are on different item progressions. Mythic+ hasn't changed that.

[Arcanines]

100+ is still crazy much.

I've done five, cause it was so awful.

Blizzard said once Mythic+ was an alternative to raiding but now it feels mandatory to raid.

My guild is soon 7/10 Mythic and every raider has, like yours, 4+ legendaries and 54 weapons. They all do crazy much Mythic+, basically all they do.

Me on the other hand did 5, level 3, 5, 7, 8 and then a 15 when i had better gear, got the achievement and I was done. I also did every dungeon at +2 for the achievement to do them all, but that doesn't count really as it was no progress just a quick clear.

Got 7/7 M, 3/3 HC and 10/10 HC and I farm only NH Norm/HC weekly with 900 ilvl equipped, I COULD be ready for Mythic NH BUT

I have my weapons at 43, 40 and 35.

I can't raid with my guild even if I wanted to due to low weapons, meaning, Mythic+ destroyed my chances of Mythic raiding this expansion.

You can't get your weapons high enough by only raiding, especially if you don't go back to old tiers

Back in the day, you could farm only current tier, Nighthold in this case, and disregard old tiers and dungeons, like it should be!

Has nothing to do with you not doing dungeons, has to do with you being a lazy person. You didn't put in the minimal effort to raid. Cant be bothered to do world quests, or a weekly chest run. )) M+ as much as its a chore atleast gives people that wish a 4% upgrade grats to them. I'll continue to raidlog and enjoy my aliance alt. Dont fix it if it isn't broken..

[Radaney]

Then there's me that logs on every day and stays online quite often but the only people who do Mythic+ together in my guild are the same 5 friends which makes me want to go join another guild.

Not really Mythic+ fault, it's the people in the guild.

[Deleted]

M+ has great potential and can be fun, but AP grind sucks.
And when ppl feel they are "forced" to do it, "fun mode" is over, "work mode" is on.
It should be source of gear only, and ppl should be focusing on the highest myth+ they are able to do (not as many of them as possible, that is mindless grind, hello low MoS).
Improving their skill, communication, strategy etc. Quality over quantity.

Other option is to have weekly cap on AP, like pvp system in WoD, when you missed 1 week, that missed cap was added to your next week's cap and so on, with some catch up system later on, for alts and new players.

For social aspect of OT post.
If they are doing additional stuff, question is why are they doing it.
a) to help your guild and help their friends.
b) to be personally better, killing more bosses on higher difficulties maybe.

So if a) is the answer, having some "boosters" who enjoys their time playing with friends, shouldn't be a bad thing and cause of frustration.
In case b) they want to be in better performing guild to match their effort, skill, attitude, demands, what ever basically, to "achieve" more in this game, its good for both sides they left.

[Bilbobubblin]

Mythic+, tl;dr, has expanded the gap between those who push for that extra .x% increase and those who aren't willing to spend the extra time for it.

I joined my current guild at the start of HFC after having taken a ~3 year break from raiding. They accepted me as a recruit (despite the lack of recent experience) and, after I caught up a bit in gear, I was almost always in the top third for DPS for the rest of WoD. During this time I mostly logged in on raid nights (twice a week) and really only made sure I did a mythic Bloodmaul Slag Mines once a week otherwise (Gug'rokk dropped two very well-itemized items for my class and I coin'ed him every week, eventually obtaining a 730 weapon and a 730 ring w/ socket that I kept throughout 5/13 M HFC).

Legion has been different, with those who run Mythic+ consistently being 5ish ilvls above me with a significantly more progressed artifact (both trait and ilvl wise) as well as better stat optimization in general. Without any analysis on actual numbers, it feels like the gap between those who log 5-15 hours/week and those who log 30+ has slowly increased throughout Legion.

I used to feel like a valued contributor, but now - because of numbers - I don't. But this isn't a poor-me post. My guild has not benched me and I doubt they ever would. About 2/3 of our raiders push mythic+ content, 1/3 do not. We killed heroic Gul'dan last night and have had larger group sizes recently, AKA closer to mythic-ready, which is promising seeing as we have yet to try to raid mythic this expansion due to numbers.

Do I feel like those who run mythic+ have an advantage? Of course! But they run more content than me, so how can I complain? I typically spend 8-12 hours a week playing WoW - while consistently running mythic+ may not drastically increase those numbers, it has not been something I have had any interest in committing to...

So, while I definitely acknowledge the gap between those who push mythic+ and those who - like me - barely bother at all as "a thing", I'm not complaining about it. Worst case scenario is my guild eventually does bench me, in which case I'd likely try to find a less-progressed guild where I could make a greater contribution...

Above all else, playing WoW should be fun! If you're not having fun, make any changes necessary!!!

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So you have no arguments about actual message? Legion's best way to progress through endgame is to do same 3 dungeons thousands of times as the way to be prepared to actual content. I should probably ask how much are YOU thinking before posting jokes like "alts". You can never have proper alt when you can never be done with your main.

Most players are finding plenty of time for alts. Just because you aren't doesn't make it a joke. And just because you choose to grind three dungeons repeatedly does not make that the only or 'best' way to progress through endgame. Only way to win this game is to have fun. If you aren't having fun, you aren't doing it right.

I was replying to your comment about Legion being first expansion where endgame is lazy. That doesn't even make sense. Blizz obviously put more time and effort into Legion's endgame than any they've ever done. Were mistakes made? They've already acknowledged there were. But lazy? The innovation of M+, daily quests more varied than ever before and spread through several zones rather than just one, an even mix of grind (AP) and rng (Legendaries) so it's not all one or the other, new raids coming out every 3 months and occasional new dungeons... How in the world can you say this is lazier than previous xpacs? Name ONE xpac that had more effort put into the endgame! Just because you aren't happy with the way you've chosen to play it, doesn't make it lazy.

- - - Updated - - -

Above all else, playing WoW should be fun! If you're not having fun, make any changes necessary!!!

^^^^THIS. So much this. There is no single way to play this game, and no way to 'win' it other than having fun.

[OrcsRLame]

Then there's me that logs on every day and stays online quite often but the only people who do Mythic+ together in my guild are the same 5 friends which makes me want to go join another guild.

Not really Mythic+ fault, it's the people in the guild.

I do think there's something about m+ that naturally causes that kind of environment to form.

If you're the sort of person that has the desire to progress your character, there are items from m+ that you will probably need to get titanforged to fuck for them to be worth it over raid gear. Certain trinkets, relics or the jewelry from CoS/Arcway. Since you're going for a high titanforge on these items, you need as many chances as possible at the highest base ilvl possible. That means 3 chesting 15s.

3 Chesting 15s isn't easy though. You need group synergy, skilled players, a good comp and a ton of gear.

I doubt you're being excluded on purpose, or at least not in a malicious sense, assuming you're not insufferable to be around. From the pov of the other players, if they swapped out one of their 5 for you, they would probably see a hit to their clear times on whatever level they're clearing consistently. That doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad player, (but it could) as there's any number of things that could make that true. You haven't built up synergy with the group, maybe it's your gear, maybe your class doesn't fit into their comp, etc.

It's just a self interest thing. Each person in the group is ultimately out for themselves and their own character progression. No one wants to give up their spot and no one wants to regress to lower levels or slower clear times.

[kamuimac]

I doubt you're being excluded on purpose, or at least not in a malicious sense, assuming you're not insufferable to be around. From the pov of the other players, if they swapped out one of their 5 for you, they would probably see a hit to their clear times on whatever level they're clearing consistently. That doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad player, (but it could) as there's any number of things that could make that true. You haven't built up synergy with the group, maybe it's your gear, maybe your class doesn't fit into their comp, etc.

or they simply enjoying each other company and like spend time in this company - i can bet that while they run those they have ton of bants in voice comms

he is just angry that he is not part of that circle of friends but instead trying and making friends on his own he demands game to supply it to him

it the same as irl - there are people who are natural at making friends and wherever they go they make new aquitances - and on the other side of scpectrum there are people who simpyl suck at it and you can spot them quite easily - its those who sit alone at parties even though there is crwod around them .