Mafia 80: The Lost Village

[PalawinFC]

Need Raza to claim.

I'm leaning towards lynching Catta today and Crissi tomorrow. I just don't trust night actions. Even if we coordinate scum might have a trick we don't know about.

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If ret redirected large to Crissi then I believe large is town. If anyone else then will depend.

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I have to go to bed. Really need Raza to come and play game.

[Largehorn]

I'm leaning towards lynching Catta today and Crissi tomorrow. I just don't trust night actions. Even if we coordinate scum might have a trick we don't know about.

Unless Ret is scum, I can prevent Catta from doing anything for at least 1 night. Now I am going to assume that Crissi's teammate (unless Ret caused me to jail someone else...) is likely going to go after me. That means that it's up to Ret to hope to get them.

[Razamith]

Need Raza to claim.

I apologize -- fires at work (the figurative software kind not literal) had it be a late night. Today may be same and delivery got extended through weekend but should have some time. Dont worry i'll make sure this post is medium length or less :P [ps: debatable]

So i'm still debating how well i played this character -- at least i should simplify things today (well, after today when confirmed). My loud trait alludes to the fact that if i die i scream in dawn with death everyone who visited me. I was worried early about outing our visiting roles with the killer (i guess possibly not with catta ninja/any similar modifier) and wasn't sure how many kills with the "everyone who doesn't vote must die" thing -- plus i kinda bet on not being killed N1/N2 due to returning. However i'm about to lose this ability -- if you recall back on D2 when i answered catta with:

Catta: "3) There is no scum and we are meant to fracture into factions of wanting specific people dead for various reasons. "
I thought of this too but I checked the signup post by danner during the night for a different reason, and re-read this:
"No overt bastardry (ie, you will not find a cult, death millers, game with no scum, lightning rod survivors, etc. )" -- some are beginning to speculate on what the mechanics are and if we're gonna call danner a bastard afterward, but that middle line is pretty explicit so i'm going on that assumption (for now).

The way this part of my role works i wanted to check how bastardy danner said he would allow the game, and its a weird way to do it but fits:

claim: *Innocent Child*

I lose my yell ability now so essentially i dont have to claim another trait rest of the game but still may reveal more since no one has said they make enemies by traits to pala's inquiry, and would be somewhat anti-town to have held that info back (not necessarily hurting, but kinda jerky making new enemies). As for events around me, if i was killed N3 i would have outed rixis with possibly killer (could have been bad), and N2 i still dont know whats up with graeham's ability he said he used on me but no notification (possibly blocked by the dead or something). Those are all i know of. I defended myself so hard because primary could be quite useful late game but this was the tradeoff ensuring a death (unless they find other roles too dangerous).

I'm ok with either lynch but still slightly prefer catta due to the possibility it removes a kill vs trying to manipulate when there could be workarounds. I get the logic on crissi being 100% but i'd bet the house on catta too now. Since either viable and nowhere near built/hammering i'll add mine here (limited time) and switch as needed to end day on majority if possible (to prevent potentially more enemies with early day end)

vote: catta

[Reticence]

Yeah, I threw Largehorn at Crissi. I would have preferred to wait for Raza, but I want to leave us ample time to discuss tactics. I see Raza has arrived. Very interesting.

With Largehorn blocking Crissi, Catta confirming Palawin's investigate and Largehorn confirming my redirect, last night's kills were between Catta, Senna, Listo and Raza. Current consensus is Listo is town, and Catta is responsible for one of them. That leaves Senna and Raza for the other.

• Senna was listed as a possibility for connections to Crackle back on D2, and that still holds true.

• Razamith had less direct ties so early in the game (as far as I can recall), but mentions in (#690) a number of times in which he opposed Crackle in (#690). You never responded to this, by the way, @PalawinFC. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Obvious choice here is Senna, but I can't rule out Razamith entirely, either. especially if Innocent Child gets confirmed.

On the topic of trust:

• If Palawin is scum, he's played such an insanely pro-town game and has led us all by the nose this entire time. I don't mind losing to him if my trust is misplaced.

• If Largehorn is scum and on Crackle/Crissi's team, then he countered Crackle for me and has been bussing teammates for the past two days, and maybe jailed one for good measure. Not only is this ridiculous, but I still wouldn't mind losing to him if this were true, because that'd be amazing.

• If Largehorn is scum and on Catta's team, then he and Catta have been bussing each other from the start. This is plausible enough to factor it into my read of the situation, but still makes me fairly okay with trusting Largehorn, and losing to him if I'm wrong.

I'm currently leaning toward lynching Catta, because I really want to remove that kill from play. I can't deny the wisdom of lynching confirmed scum first, but I think Palawin revealing that he had a BPV is pretty damning in its own right. Lynching Catta also serves as an insurance policy for anyone who thinks Largehorn or I may be in league with him, but that's a fairly secondary reason. That said, I won't be too upset if we decide on lynching Crissi tonight, because we have reasonable tactics available to us in either case:

1) If we lynch Catta, then Largehorn jails Senna or Raza, I redirect Crissi to the jailed one and Palawin investigates the other.

• If we jail Raza, then if Senna claimed a real trait and is telling the truth, then Palawin should be able to safely investigate her to confirm her role while Raza and Crissi do nothing. If Senna is lying, then either Palawin will know in the morning or he'll be dead because Senna killed him.

• If we jail Senna, then Palawin gets Raza's role. If Raza is scum, he'd probably target Largehorn. If not, no kills should go through.

2) If we lynch Crissi, then Largehorn jails Catta, I'll redirect Senna or Raza to Catta and Palawin investigates whichever one he wants.

• If I choose the right one and no kills go through, we know we've caught our scum. It's possible they'll not kill to throw suspicion on someone else, but by then we'll have caught up to them with lynches and should be able to lock them down even easier the following night.

• If I choose the wrong one... well, they kill me or Largehorn, probably 50/50 as to which one.

In both cases, I redirect my target to Largehorn's target to stop the kill without the risk of killing a townie (and maybe to confirm that he's actually jailing that person, for those who are paranoid about that). I think the Catta option has more coverage and takes less chances overall, though we do lead off with lynching non-confirmed scum. It has even less risk if Raza is confirmed, because then we know to just jail Senna from the start.

Thoughts?

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@Razamith, is Danner supposed to confirm that as soon as possible, or in the end-of-day post?

[Razamith]

Referring to my previous post today, I dont believe we're necessarily in a bad situation here, just that the leeway of mistakes we can make is limited but possibly not critical depending on blocks. The two biggest things that worry me are 1) if scum do have a workaround kill (catta has ninja and in 3v2 world a smaller maf would need better powers) and 2) the possibility that a scum is sitting way too happy/driving all this. Like i townread listo also and you see where i put him on my lists, but not sure i could put him in an town circle. I think the only one i could do that on is pala since he's got distinct against both and content to back it, or yes i'm similar in that if he's scum gg man.

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He confirms it in my claim enday. That was the weird way that i checked on his bastardy statement for.

[Largehorn]

Thoughts?

I like it however, I don't think we can rule out Listo just yet in all of this. Many of us might think he's Town but doesn't mean he really is.

@Razamith, is Danner supposed to confirm that as soon as possible, or in the end-of-day post?

I think we should build plans for both. Though we have to decide who to actually lynch. Now that I understand your role better (my previous thoughts in this regard were thinking you were a bus driver like one), it probably would be better to lynch Catta. The problem we run into though is if Listo is that last teammate.

After all, Senna seemed to "claim" instantly to him. I would be interested to see/hear if @listo95 can confirm if Senna was shared the same information in both places. Of course since Listo hasn't said a word about it (and he should have been active at this point...), I'm starting to think we've actually found our last scum. He's trying to lay low and hope we don't focus on him, but if he doesn't answer I think Ret might want to do a little WIFOM with him and Crissi.

[Reticence]

He confirms it in my claim enday. That was the weird way that i checked on his bastardy statement for.

I see. Well, I'm assuming that's going to pan out, because I don't see you as the sort of player that would do something so silly as fake-claim an Innocent Child.

As for bastardry, if I see "Razamith is an Innocent Child" in the dusk post and it turns out to not mean that you are actually an Innocent Child, then I'll order one of these and have it shipped express to Danner.

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I think we should build plans for both. Though we have to decide who to actually lynch. Now that I understand your role better (my previous thoughts in this regard were thinking you were a bus driver like one), it probably would be better to lynch Catta. The problem we run into though is if Listo is that last teammate.

If we go the lynch-Catta route, it may be easiest just to say you should jail Senna regardless -- she still seems to be the most likely culprit. Then, Palawin can investigate Listo for good measure if Raza does get confirmed.

I'm starting to think we've actually found our last scum. He's trying to lay low and hope we don't focus on him, but if he doesn't answer I think Ret might want to do a little WIFOM with him and Crissi.

Maybe. He does seem quiet, now, but I read his earlier interactions as town-Listo. If he doesn't answer, though, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

[Largehorn]

Maybe. He does seem quiet, now, but I read his earlier interactions as town-Listo. If he doesn't answer, though, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

I did too. That's the problem. The second he has the possibility of influencing things, namely our feel of Senna, and completely setting our reads of him he's gone AWOL. So it brings up the interesting question of why. He could confirm that Senna is telling the truth or not, but it exposes him. And that silence is only under scoring it for me.

[listo95]

So apparently I'm not allowed to sleep or something?

This is the wording Senna used when she claimed to me.

I'm essentially a very unlucky VT where unless I claim, I die when targeted by an ability.

[Largehorn]

So apparently I'm not allowed to sleep or something?

Nah you can sleep... you just seemed to have slept much later than you normally do. Just matching your regular active times with today....

This is the wording Senna used when she claimed to me.

Well that's interesting. So basically the same thing in both places. I guess Ret it's your call.

[listo95]

Large it's 11 am for me right now. Usually I stay up late but I went to sleep early due to needing to get up at this time.

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Also I know this might be silly of me... But lets not forget Danner said this would be MMMM like. My main thing of bringing this up again? Palawin. I was a GF for a mafia then and I was a cop/role cop. Danner pretty much said the idea behind that was follow the cop and lose.

[Largehorn]

Large it's 11 am for me right now. Usually I stay up late but I went to sleep early due to needing to get up at this time.

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Also I know this might be silly of me... But lets not forget Danner said this would be MMMM like. My main thing of bringing this up again? Palawin. I was a GF for a mafia then and I was a cop/role cop. Danner pretty much said the idea behind that was follow the cop and lose.

That may be true... but then again why am I not dead? Why is Ret not dead?

In fact, Palawin could have killed me and no one would have known I was capable of anything. You're right, Palawin could be playing us all for fools but it seems that if that's true Palawin has been playing one hell of a long game.

[listo95]

That may be true... but then again why am I not dead? Why is Ret not dead?

In fact, Palawin could have killed me and no one would have known I was capable of anything. You're right, Palawin could be playing us all for fools but it seems that if that's true Palawin has been playing one hell of a long game.

Main reason I also am slightly trusting of Senna and her claim. She could have tried to kill me last night if she was on the mafia team. No one would have known she was my neighbor.

[Danner]

Heads up, I have limited internet access for the next 4 hours. I may be able to close the gameday over phone if you end it in that timeframe, but my ability to provide vote records on demand will be limited.

For that reason, have one now.

Crissi(1): Largehorn(#705)
Catta(1): Razamith(#743)

[Largehorn]

Unvote

I think we are going to lynch Catta but I don't quite want to vote him yet so that there can't be a slur of activity preventing us from planning out what we want.

[Senna1251]

So you have no real ability, just a pgo which can be turned off?

I don't know what to make of the sanity thing.
If sanity is not important, then your role seems pretty weak.

Yes, that's it, except that I would be the one who dies, not the person targeting me. Yes, I feel like my role is weak, which is why I've been calling myself a VT. I basically can only hope that I don't die overnight or lose sanity, for whatever purpose that is.

How much sanity did you start with?

I started with and still have 3 sanity.

[Largehorn]

@Reticence

I'm not going to have much more time today... I'd be interested in a "final" plan about how we wish to handle our night actions tonight at least some more of your thoughts on that.

[Reticence]

@Reticence

I'm not going to have much more time today... I'd be interested in a "final" plan about how we wish to handle our night actions tonight at least some more of your thoughts on that.

I'm thinking lynch Catta, jail Senna. If Danner confirms Raza's claim, Palawin can investigate Listo; otherwise, Raza.

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Re: sanity... my prevailing theory was that I got my new role card after I had claimed as many traits as I had sanity. But since the difference in the cards seems to be mostly fluff (and even less win conditions to worry about), I'm not sure if it matters?

/le shrug

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@PalawinFC, are you on board with this plan?

[listo95]

Vote: Catta

Just a reminder we have to end day before deadline or else any non-voters will become an enemy of someone I believe.

[PalawinFC]

Hey. Just woke up.
Plan sounds good to me. Lynch catta, direct Crissi onto jailed senna.
I will choose target based on Raza inno child claim.

If the scum team is 2 more, large cannot be on it, or there would have been no second kill last night.

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vote Catta

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Ps i don't see any point investigating Listo.

Edit - his neighbour ability is corroborated by senna.

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Actually im being coy. I do see a point.

If Raza is town then it's actually possible there's a second mafia, 2 scum teams of 2. That could easily be Listo and senna.

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In fact it could be anyone. My reads are based on not being aligned with Crackle.

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Oh
@Reticence @Largehorn
What will you do if senna fails to claim. Visiting her well kill her (if telling truth).

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I assume do the same thing but with Raza (if not confirmed) or Listo (if Raza confirmed)?