Dear Blizzard, we don´t like diablofied WoW

[Grimnakh]

Considering what the infinite AP grind has done to people who wants to play alts or offspecs.

I would say the decision that hurts the most people by and far is sticking with these broken systems you so valiantly defend in your selfishness.

I agree that the current expac is alt and main class/spec switch unfriendly, and would like significant account wide mechanisms to apply the benefits of progression on one character to other characters on the same account. Thats certainly something I support and I think most people would. I dont know anyone promoting it staying that way, so Im not sure who you mean is being selfish exactly.

[Garybear]

I've been playing wow since vanilla and tbh wow has never been this fun for me since wrath/cata.

[Deleted]

I've been playing wow since vanilla and tbh wow has never been this fun for me since wrath/cata.

The first time you step into a casino you always have fun.

For the sake of your own wellbeing, I hope the game will change.

[epLe]

Considering what the infinite AP grind has done to people who wants to play alts or offspecs.

I would say the decision that hurts the most people by and far is sticking with these broken systems you so valiantly defend in your selfishness.

I really enjoy the APs, 2 artifacts going on 3 chars, and a couple which only have 1 artifact so far.
Since all of the leveling is just a short story thing you run through now,
it is nice with some other character-building that lasts through the expansion.

I'd say if the AP grind wasnt there at all, I'd only be raidlogging my alts.
Since the AP system benefits those who wants to play more, it is perfect in my PoV.

[simpleton]

RNG is awful.

this is the real issue

[Grimnakh]

this is the real issue

The only part of the rng thats awful is the legendaries, and theyve made good improvements there, more to come in 7.2. WF and TF are what provide the ability for long term progression, which is a fantastic improvement over the old gearing system.

[dextersmith]

Blizz forums ain't here :P

Sadly, the people who needed to read this won't see it.

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody cares about your opinion

You cared enough to read it.

[Deleted]

The only part of the rng thats awful is the legendaries, and theyve made good improvements there, more to come in 7.2. WF and TF are what provide the ability for long term progression, which is a fantastic improvement over the old gearing system.

WF can stay but TF must go. Maximum random upgrade should be +10 and thats it.

[Grimnakh]

WF can stay but TF must go. Maximum random upgrade should be +10 and thats it.

Ya, dont agree. the exponetial rarity handles it just fine. Im sure most players would agree, and the game is currently balanced around TF existing. Removing it would eliminate a lot of the mini incentive of running lower level voluntary content, which would be a net negative.

[meroko]

AP is fine.
DPS legendaries are fine.
RNG is awful.

Then don't play MMO's. Simple as that.

[IceMan1763]

Then don't play MMO's. Simple as that.

Very few do compared to before they went way overboard with RNG.

[Flurryfang]

I actually enjoy many of the things added from Diablo 3. Diablo 3 RoS did ALOT of good things and having them affect WoW is not bad. That said, not everything is good, but asking to dediablofy WoW is not gonna fix many things.

[Grimnakh]

Very few do compared to before they went way overboard with RNG.

Aaaaand you have no evidence of this. In classic it took forevor to farm raids and dungeons, even though the items didnt change if they dropped, you still had huge swings in player power based on which items you got or didnt get per boss. If anything the game is less rng now, though probably about on par. Apply a random result many times and you get a mean cluster. In essence it means this guy did these things about the same amount as that guy, the longer theyve done the same things the more likely it is for them to have a similar ilvl. 2 players doing the same things for a decent period of time will have about the same itsm level, with people doing less but the same base ilvl content closing the gap over time.

Most of the complaints about rng are about 2 things:

valid: bis legendaries skew power too much and you can get really unlucky until you hit 8-all spec legendaries. Thats fair, its not super bad now without diminishing legendary chances, but I would prefer it just be much easier to get all the legendaries for a spec.

elitist jerk reason (also very common): These people do not want players to be able to progress their characters, even as slowly as the system allows past a certain point if they arent in a mythic raiding country club. And theyre an embarassment to humanity.

[Deleted]

"Dear Blizzard,

as a long time World of Warcraft customer, who was played this game for more than 12 years, I would like to make a statement that might surprise you.

I don't like Diablo 3! In fact, I don't like any of your current games, except for World of Warcraft. Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, Overwatch... All those games are completely uninteresting to me.

You know which of your games I dislike the most? That's right, Diablo 3, the game you are currently trying to mix with World of Warcraft for some reason! I never regretted buying one of your games more. Thinking back to Error 37 and the Real Money Auction House makes me sick to my stomach. Even apart from that, I don't like anything about Diablo 3. In my opinion, it's a pointless grinding game that I never want to go back to.

With all that said, I would like to ask you to reconsider the direction you are currently pushing World of Warcraft into. I always liked this game so much, because it was very different from your other games and other MMORPGs. It was always a very unique experience. To me, it feels like a gut punch that you keep shoehorning in all these elements from Diablo 3 and other games, as they feel completely misplaced here.

Diablo 3 is a game with a very low retention rate, while World of Warcraft is supposed to be a game with a very high retention rate. You know that Diablo 3 players will never stay with the game for very long because of the nature of the game, but World of Warcraft is a game that you want people to play for a long time, right? So naturally, the motivating elements of both these games should never be mixed. For example, insane amounts of RNG are meant for games with disposable characters that reach their progression ceilings after a short time, not for games in which you spent months or even years working towards improving a single character.

By adding all these unfitting elements from other games, World of Warcraft loses parts of it's own identity. When I play high level mythic plus dungeons and witness the wildly imbalanced affixes, I think of Diablo 3. When I have to grind hundreds of mythic plus dungeons to receive all the artifact power I need to max out a single weapon, I think of Diablo 3. When I witness all the grief and disappointment created by the unfair legendary system, I imagine a loud casino with all it's slot machine noises. Just keep playing until you eventually get lucky! When I look at the PvP prestige system, I think about Call of Duty. I never in my life would have imagined to think about Call of Duty while playing World of Warcraft! Do you really think there is a massive audience crossover here? I hope you don't!

There is so much else, but it has all been said and done often enough. I am very worried about the future of this game. With the approaching AP grind of patch 7.2, I am very concerned that my apathy towards the RNG based reward structure might eventually increase to an unbearable level. I might even burn out completely, especially since there won't be a lot of new content. Players who want to stay competetive will have to farm mostly the same old mythic plus dungeons over and over again, like they did since the beginning of the expansion.

Was this really what you had in mind when you created this expansion? Having people play the same dungeons hundreds, thousands of times, forcing competetitive raiders and even PvP players to do the same, even if they don't have interest in this activity? Wasn't there a promise before the launch of this expansion that players could CHOOSE what they want to do and always be rewarded fairly for it? What happened to that? You really think that raiders and PvP players receive fair amounts of AP compared to dungeoneers? Are you surprised that so many guilds are calling it quits and arena participation is at an all time low?

There was a time in this expansion when I had 80 people online on my friend list at prime times. This number has since dropped to 20. I have never witnessed such a steep decline in any expansion before. Nearly all of my friends have quit the game.

You know what almost all of them give as reasons for quitting? The RNG based reward structure and legendaries. The systems that you were so convinced would keep people motivated for a long time, are actually making people quit the game instead. At some point, the chances of improving a character further are so incredibly small, that it's not even worth trying anymore, but at that point the character is still far from being perfectly equipped. There is simply no way that any person will ever perfectly equip one of their characters with the Titanforging system in place. There will be no completion, ever. But starting an alt is also out of the question for many people, because they don't want to go through all the grinding and waiting again, only to have another character who's equipment will never be fully completed. There is no closure! The game will never finished, and sure enough, that's the reason why many players are finished with the game.

Blizzard, I hope you to take feedback very serious in these times. The completely random reward structure that doesn't take merit into account, the extremly unfair legendary system that is killing competitiveness in guilds and among friends, titanforging up to item level 925 with a socket and leech as bonus stat from heroic dungeons, grinding AP for months to be finished with just ONE artifact weapon, stop all this nonsense! Make World of Warcraft more like World of Warcraft again.

Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day."

by Keilen - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

I just played Reaper of Souls for the first time this week and holy shit did they take a lot of stuff from Diablo 3.

Nephalem Rifts in Diablo 3, Mythic Keystone Dungeons in WoW:Legion.
Bounties in Diablo 3, World Quests in WoW:Legion.
Randomized Abilities of Elites in Diablo 3, Affixes in Mythic+ dungeons in WoW:Legion.
Paragon levels as an ongoing reward in Diablo 3, Artifact power in WoW:Legion.
Both games have rare legendary item drops, that you'll be farming endlessly.
And in both Diablo 3 and in WoW:Legion, enemies scale with your level.

Quite honestly I disliked all of these things in both Diablo 3 and WoW: Legion. And the reason primarily is that it's designed so that players will farm and grind endlessly.

[Grimnakh]

I just played Reaper of Souls for the first time this week and holy shit did they take a lot of stuff from Diablo 3.

Nephalem Rifts in Diablo 3, Mythic Keystone Dungeons in WoW:Legion.
Bounties in Diablo 3, World Quests in WoW:Legion.
Randomized Abilities of Elites in Diablo 3, Affixes in Mythic+ dungeons in WoW:Legion.
Paragon levels as an ongoing reward in Diablo 3, Artifact power in WoW:Legion.
Both games have rare legendary item drops, that you'll be farming endlessly.
And in both Diablo 3 and in WoW:Legion, enemies scale with your level.

Quite honestly I disliked all of these things in both Diablo 3 and WoW: Legion. And the reason primarily is that it's designed so that players will farm and grind endlessly.

Long post short: I play/played an mmorpg and didnt/dont understand the point of mmorpgs.

[Deleted]

Long post short: I play/played an mmorpg and didnt/dont understand the point of mmorpgs.

Cause the game was always like that right? All these years, every expansion had artifact power, low dropchance world drop legendaries, level scaling, mythic+ dungeons and world quests. That was totally the point of playing WoW all these years. It's totally not like tons of people are frustrated over this in Legion.

Fuck even Vanilla was less grindy than that. MMOs might have always had some element of grinding, but 1) I can't remember a time when it was more extreme than this and 2) grinding is not one of the things that people have ever liked about MMOs. It's always the thing that people complain about the most. It's always been the thing that sucks the fun out of everything.

Have you ever met someone who said "you know what I like about MMOs? grinding the same shit over and over again!"?

Yeah, me neither.

I've never grinded anything in WoW, and guess what, there was still a reason for me to play the game. Gee, it's almost like there are people who don't play MMOs for the grind.

[Avlivar]

I enjoy it. Please say "I" instead of "we", or make a petition or something.

[Jinpachi]

"dear blizzard,

as a long time world of warcraft customer, who was played this game for more than 12 years, i would like to make a statement that might surprise you.

I don't like diablo 3! In fact, i don't like any of your current games, except for world of warcraft. Starcraft 2, hearthstone, heroes of the storm, overwatch... All those games are completely uninteresting to me.

You know which of your games i dislike the most? That's right, diablo 3, the game you are currently trying to mix with world of warcraft for some reason! I never regretted buying one of your games more. Thinking back to error 37 and the real money auction house makes me sick to my stomach. Even apart from that, i don't like anything about diablo 3. In my opinion, it's a pointless grinding game that i never want to go back to.

With all that said, i would like to ask you to reconsider the direction you are currently pushing world of warcraft into. I always liked this game so much, because it was very different from your other games and other mmorpgs. It was always a very unique experience. To me, it feels like a gut punch that you keep shoehorning in all these elements from diablo 3 and other games, as they feel completely misplaced here.

Diablo 3 is a game with a very low retention rate, while world of warcraft is supposed to be a game with a very high retention rate. You know that diablo 3 players will never stay with the game for very long because of the nature of the game, but world of warcraft is a game that you want people to play for a long time, right? So naturally, the motivating elements of both these games should never be mixed. For example, insane amounts of rng are meant for games with disposable characters that reach their progression ceilings after a short time, not for games in which you spent months or even years working towards improving a single character.

By adding all these unfitting elements from other games, world of warcraft loses parts of it's own identity. When i play high level mythic plus dungeons and witness the wildly imbalanced affixes, i think of diablo 3. When i have to grind hundreds of mythic plus dungeons to receive all the artifact power i need to max out a single weapon, i think of diablo 3. When i witness all the grief and disappointment created by the unfair legendary system, i imagine a loud casino with all it's slot machine noises. Just keep playing until you eventually get lucky! When i look at the pvp prestige system, i think about call of duty. I never in my life would have imagined to think about call of duty while playing world of warcraft! Do you really think there is a massive audience crossover here? I hope you don't!

There is so much else, but it has all been said and done often enough. I am very worried about the future of this game. With the approaching ap grind of patch 7.2, i am very concerned that my apathy towards the rng based reward structure might eventually increase to an unbearable level. I might even burn out completely, especially since there won't be a lot of new content. Players who want to stay competetive will have to farm mostly the same old mythic plus dungeons over and over again, like they did since the beginning of the expansion.

Was this really what you had in mind when you created this expansion? Having people play the same dungeons hundreds, thousands of times, forcing competetitive raiders and even pvp players to do the same, even if they don't have interest in this activity? Wasn't there a promise before the launch of this expansion that players could choose what they want to do and always be rewarded fairly for it? What happened to that? You really think that raiders and pvp players receive fair amounts of ap compared to dungeoneers? Are you surprised that so many guilds are calling it quits and arena participation is at an all time low?

There was a time in this expansion when i had 80 people online on my friend list at prime times. This number has since dropped to 20. I have never witnessed such a steep decline in any expansion before. Nearly all of my friends have quit the game.

You know what almost all of them give as reasons for quitting? The rng based reward structure and legendaries. The systems that you were so convinced would keep people motivated for a long time, are actually making people quit the game instead. At some point, the chances of improving a character further are so incredibly small, that it's not even worth trying anymore, but at that point the character is still far from being perfectly equipped. There is simply no way that any person will ever perfectly equip one of their characters with the titanforging system in place. There will be no completion, ever. But starting an alt is also out of the question for many people, because they don't want to go through all the grinding and waiting again, only to have another character who's equipment will never be fully completed. There is no closure! The game will never finished, and sure enough, that's the reason why many players are finished with the game.

Blizzard, i hope you to take feedback very serious in these times. The completely random reward structure that doesn't take merit into account, the extremly unfair legendary system that is killing competitiveness in guilds and among friends, titanforging up to item level 925 with a socket and leech as bonus stat from heroic dungeons, grinding ap for months to be finished with just one artifact weapon, stop all this nonsense! Make world of warcraft more like world of warcraft again.

Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day."

by keilen - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

tl;dr. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa

- - - Updated - - -

I just played Reaper of Souls for the first time this week and holy shit did they take a lot of stuff from Diablo 3.

Nephalem Rifts in Diablo 3, Mythic Keystone Dungeons in WoW:Legion.
Bounties in Diablo 3, World Quests in WoW:Legion.
Randomized Abilities of Elites in Diablo 3, Affixes in Mythic+ dungeons in WoW:Legion.
Paragon levels as an ongoing reward in Diablo 3, Artifact power in WoW:Legion.
Both games have rare legendary item drops, that you'll be farming endlessly.
And in both Diablo 3 and in WoW:Legion, enemies scale with your level.

Quite honestly I disliked all of these things in both Diablo 3 and WoW: Legion. And the reason primarily is that it's designed so that players will farm and grind endlessly.

As opposed to completely outscaling the content and being bored as fuck for 9 months while you wait for the next expansion? Yeah, no.

[Grimnakh]

Cause the game was always like that right? All these years, every expansion had artifact power, low dropchance world drop legendaries, level scaling, mythic+ dungeons and world quests. That was totally the point of playing WoW all these years. It's totally not like tons of people are frustrated over this in Legion.

Fuck even Vanilla was less grindy than that. MMOs might have always had some element of grinding, but 1) I can't remember a time when it was more extreme than this and 2) grinding is not one of the things that people have ever liked about MMOs. It's always the thing that people complain about the most. It's always been the thing that sucks the fun out of everything.

Youre conplaining about things that make the game a grind, compel continued play because of the insane amount of time it would take to collect the bis for your char and all your AP. Did you play classic or TBC? The grind in legion isnt even close to that, and the repeatable content that offers the most efficient advancement path is 100x more interesting. In classic you might spend days in a single zone farming mobs for xp and gold. Everything took forevor and alot of the content then was waiting for a damn boat, or clearing world trash with a pug to get to a dungeon, corpse running for eternity and hoping you got the drop you were hoping for after spending hours on the goal of clearing a dungeon. Get off your rose tinted drunk goggles.

[Kayzza]

I personally love this expansion solely for the reason they added the Diablo team to the WoW team for it. Diablo was the game that hooked me long ago.

Jeez that is some sad reason to like a WoW expansion.. Go play Diablo if you are so "hooked" to it?