Turkish foreign minister campaigning in Western Europe

[JohnBrown1917]

Turkey's reaction was a bit of a stunt though rather than being a rational one, but still I'm not sure why the Dutch are that concerned about a Turkish minister giving a speech. I would be more concerned about a NAZI gaining momentum in an election you know; I think that's a far greater threat to public safety.

Nazis don't have the smallest of chances to gain any power in the next election..
And the plane was turned back because Turkey started threatening us during the negation of where the ministers talk should be held.


This all on Turkey.

[Deleted]

Can't we just conquer Turkey like we did with the Ottoman Empire. The faster Erdogan is gone, the better.

[Vestig3]

Tbh the only reason the minister wasnt allowed into the consulate was coz she didnt have diplomatic immunity.

Must say i keked hard when Erdogan tried to learn the netherlands about democracy and freedom of speech.

[Kuntantee]

It came from both sides tbh turkish/dutch citizens attacking police and police attacking them.

There are ways to detain people who are disturbing the public order. Hitting them with metal, and making dogs bite them is not among those methods. What we have observed here is manifestation of some sort of hatred, possibly towards Turks.

[Leonora]

Kangodo> Radical Imams fall outside of our freedom of speech.
> If we let Farage here to spread propaganda for OUR referendum than I don't see the issue with this guy telling his story.

Integration of minorities is one of the hot button issues of our Dutch campagne. If the Turkey government is allowed to campagne here on a subject that is both within the hot button subjects and highly suspect (giving Erdogan too much power), that would b even worse than letting radical imams spread their garbage. Had Rutte/our government allowed this, it would only played in the hands of parties like PVV. There was no way this could be allowed, right now. Farage is an entirely different person going about an entirely different subject.

> Bij Pauw & Jinek zat Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert (minister van Defensie, VVD) openlijk te speculeren of ‘brandveiligheid’ niet ingezet kon worden om de bijeenkomst niet door te laten gaan. [Translation: seeking alternative judicial ways to prevent what we dont wish to see happen]

> And that's the big issue.

Using small unexpected approaches to get done what all wish to see if a worldwide and timeless approach. I vaguely recall some mafia person in the USA which they never got caught on his mobster action, and who was finally put to jail over a tax issue or something. Nothing wrong with that. While Turkey shouts 5 times a day about how we are fascists, denying them their rights, fact is that they dont have that right.

> People are that stupid that they consider it "bowing down" if you apply the same rules to everyone.

If we had allowed Kaya or any Turkish government official to do what we, before, asked tons of time not to do, it would be felt to us Dutch citizens as bowing down to Erdogan.

> And who's the victim here? Dutch citizens.

Nah. There are a few Turks who for some reason feel slighted, mostly because they are buying into the macho language from Erdogan. If there is a victim, its the Turkish population, pending on how they vote in that referendum. I think the Turkish government is using us to get the Turkish doubters gather around their flag and vote in Erdogan for dictator of their country. A decision they will regret in a few years.

[Jastall]

Given its own history (or rather, whitewashing of it), Turkey really is among the very last places that can call anyone else a Nazi.

[Cairhiin]

There are ways to detain people who are disturbing the public order. Hitting them with metal, and making dogs bite them is not among those methods. What we have observed here is manifestation of some sort of hatred, possibly towards Turks.

Yeah some of the Turkish demonstrators behaved absolutely like upstanding citizens. Not that they weren't actively engaging the police.

[Kuntantee]

Tbh the only reason the minister wasnt allowed into the consulate was coz she didnt have diplomatic immunity.

The ambassador (or whatever) was also barred from leaving the embassy building, how about that?

[Vestig3]

There are ways to detain people who are disturbing the public order. Hitting them with metal, and making dogs bite them is not among those methods. What we have observed here is manifestation of some sort of hatred, possibly towards Turks.

Isnt that as bad as a group of turkish people kicking a police officer thats on the ground with 5-6 people?

- - - Updated - - -

The ambassador (or whatever) was also barred from leaving the embassy building, how about that?

Coz he lied about everything they asked him prior to the minister coming, cause and effect.

[Gorsameth]

Tbh the only reason the minister wasnt allowed into the consulate was coz she didnt have diplomatic immunity.

There is no way they were allowing anyone else to come over after they told the Foreign Minister he was not welcome, in response to direct threats from Erdogan.

They did not allow her to reach the consulate because the consulate itself it protected by internal law.

And no diplomatic immunity has nothing to do with it. It just means we cant prosecute her. It does not grant the right to freely travel wherever you want.

The ambassador (or whatever) was also barred from leaving the embassy building, how about that?

Same deal, an ambassador has no rights to freely travel anywhere if the host country does not want him to. Inside the embassy he can't be touched (since its technically Turkish ground) but he has no extra rights outside the grounds.

[JohnBrown1917]

Yeah some of the Turkish demonstrators behaved absolutely like upstanding citizens. Not that they weren't actively engaging the police.

The Turkish state media are now hell bent on making the Netherlands look as evil as possible, not surprising that a lot of Turks in Turkey now actually believe all those lies about the Netherlands from Erdy.



When the news is controlled by the government, shit gets hella dangerous.

[Vestig3]

When the news is controlled by the government, shit gets hella dangerous.

But but but... Erdogan tried to explain how freedom of speech works.... to us.

[Kuntantee]

Same deal, an ambassador has no rights to freely travel anywhere if the host country does not want him to. Inside the embassy he can't be touched (since its technically Turkish ground) but he has no extra rights outside the grounds.

So we can imprison Dutch diplomats in their building, and you'd be okay with that?

[Deleted]

Turkey's reaction was a bit of a stunt though rather than being a rational one, but still I'm not sure why the Dutch are that concerned about a Turkish minister giving a speech. I would be more concerned about a NAZI gaining momentum in an election you know; I think that's a far greater threat to public safety.

Because in theory these people are the "successfully integrated new dutchs". And now they are agitated by politicians from a "foreign" country, now they rioting on the streets to support a "foreign" government and now they are in the favor of changing a democracy into a khalifate with a sultan on the throne... great outlook for the future in Netherlands

[Gorsameth]

So we can imprison Dutch diplomats in their building, and you'd be okay with that?

Please quote me where I said Turkey had to be ok with it, they can be pissed off all they want. Doesn't mean their ambassador has the right to go where he pleases when the host country does not want him to.

[Vestig3]

The Turkish state media are now hell bent on making the Netherlands look as evil as possible, not surprising that a lot of Turks in Turkey now actually believe all those lies about the Netherlands from Erdy.

I doubt the rest of europe will go along with turkey on this tbh.

[Kuntantee]

Please quote me where I said Turkey had to be ok with it, they can be pissed off all they want. Doesn't mean their ambassador has the right to go where he pleases when the host country does not want him to.

I am saying would *YOU* be okay with Turkey *effectively* imprisoning Dutch diplomats in their embassy building because they simply don't want them to travel around. I am sure we can make some bullshit excuses like "public order", "public safety", like you. Would you be okay with it?

[Deleted]

So we can imprison Dutch diplomats in their building, and you'd be okay with that?

If those Dutch diplomats are trying to undermine the Turkish government then yes. Or do you think it would be okay for Dutch diplomats to try to undermine the Turkish government?

[Leonora]

Turkey's reaction was a bit of a stunt though rather than being a rational one, but still I'm not sure why the Dutch are that concerned about a Turkish minister giving a speech. I would be more concerned about a NAZI gaining momentum in an election you know; I think that's a far greater threat to public safety.

I cant speak for our government. But - the position of minorities and Islam followers is a hot button issue at the moment. Allowing that kind of campagne for an issue [referendum for Erdogan] which is highly suspect, where we have enough issues on the stance of PVV and other parties... that would not be wise. It would be like our government making statements about the Armenian genocide in Turkey, or about the course of Turkey on the Koerd zitizens. I doubt that would be appreciated, either.

[Gorsameth]

I am saying would *YOU* be okay with Turkey *effectively* imprisoning Dutch diplomats in their embassy building because they simply don't want them to travel around. I am sure we can make some bullshit excuses like "public order", "public safety", like you. Would you be okay with it?

Yeah sure, go imprison our ambassador after we improperly call you fascists and Nazi's and then try to hold a rally in your country when you have forbidden it.

Since that is 100% not going to happen I don't care.