New York removes test for screening teachers because blacks/hispanics can't pass it

[Thetruth1400]

I work in the education industry, writing software that evaluates the effectiveness of teachers in their classrooms. As much as this news boils my piss, it isn't really news... A lot of states and school districts try to dance around our tests because it results in people getting laid off. Education in America's public school system truly is fucked. If you love your kids and you live in America, private school them. Trust me on this; I've seen the numbers.

Anywhere where the general public can see these numbers, because something as big as this wouldn't go unreported by the news. They're always looking for click bait new stories and "Is your child's teacher fit to be in the classroom?" is about as juicy a click bait news story as it gets.

That aside; sorry, but if everyone besides Blacks and Hispanics are passing the test, the problem isn't with the test. We don't need to lower our standards as a society just because a minority group or two can't keep up with the standards. Truth be told, we will always need people working in lower positions that don't require high standards, maybe those jobs are more suited to the groups that can't pass the test.

[Darththeo]

I understand that.

I'm asking: what type of culture exists that enables a white person to understand and pass the test, and what type of culture exists that hinders a black person from passing the test.

If it's simply rural/urban/suburban, you do realize that any combination of people in any 3 of those could have passed or failed, right?

You are almost there. We aren't talking about specifics here, but just potential. We don't need a specific example to have a valid point.
The fact blacks are more often inner city kids vs whites, is pretty sufficient for most people. And this can be tested vs Whites who failed if we were to see such a pattern.

[Deletedaccount1]

/facepalm ... that's because you decided to add something I didn't say. I am not saying ALL EAST ASIAN CULTURES VALUE THIS!!!!! Neighboring cultures tend first off, to have some similarities. So, share traits can occur. So, again, not all, but finding shared traits between different cultures in the same race isn't surprising. Some groups will favor some traits over other ... the more share traits between similar culture.

You are literally just complaining about an oversimplification on my part. It is like complaining that I said the sky is blue due to how the sun's rays impact the atmosphere and not explaining what particle elements in the atmosphere are responsible.

Here is a reply in vain to yours.

How many Black people do you see raised anywhere in Asia with Asian values and culture? Does that matter at all? No? that's how I view your reply.

You haven't defined to me what traits impact IQ variance among different races. When you say Koreans and Chinese students do better on the SAT or IQ tests because of cultural traits, I can picture an Asian tiger mom going "B+, how will you get into Berkeley with this?"

When you account for IQ, wage and test score differentials among races shrink into the margin of error. There is no reason you can simply write that off to some sort of cultural difference. If you don't believe me go read the Bell Curve where the authors dedicate like 3 chapters to debunking this.

I don't know what you mean with the example of blacks raised in Asia but that also proves my point. Adopted children (as in a black child raised in an upper middle class white household) should preform just as well on standardized tests or IQ tests but they frequently preform the same as other people of their ethnic background on the latter and sub-par compared to their peers of comparable socioeconomic status on the former.

[Deletedaccount1]

They wouldn't want to, but they stake their entire foundation based off that meaningless number.

Meaningless to who? Your political sensibilities or the legion of professional psychologists who create peer reviewed, Mensa approved IQ tests?

[Anastacy]

You are almost there. We aren't talking about specifics here, but just potential. We don't need a specific example to have a valid point.
The fact blacks are more often inner city kids vs whites, is pretty sufficient for most people. And this can be tested vs Whites who failed if we were to see such a pattern.

Okay. So...what I'm asking is, what sort of inner city culture hinders (a significant number of) blacks from passing the test? Because, surely, there's some inner city blacks that have passed, yes?

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It's a sample passage about cubism, which i think is an art form related to cubes. And you might have to write about how this woman progressed art (if you call art about cubes progress) because of hard work, or something. I skimmed.

1) was "cubism" relevant to the question and answer?

2) are white people disproportionately taught about cubism vs. blacks/Hispanics?

3) and is that a failure of the test, or the teaching leading up to the test?

[Darththeo]

You haven't defined to me what traits impact IQ variance among different races. When you say Koreans and Chinese students do better on the SAT or IQ tests because of cultural traits, I can picture an Asian tiger mom going "B+, how will you get into Berkeley with this?"

See my why is the sky blue. It isn't relevant to my point.

When you account for IQ, wage differences and test score differentials shrink into the margin of error. There is no reason you can simply write that off to some sort of cultural difference. If you don't believe me go read the Bell Curve where the authors dedicate like 3 chapters to debunking this.

Literally not even doing this. I don't disagree ... I am just saying you can't discount the cultural impact. I am not writing anything off.

I don't know what you mean with the example of blacks raised in Asia but that also proves my point. Adopted children (as in a black child raised in an upper middle class white household) should preform just as well on standardized tests or IQ tests but they frequently preform the same as other people of their ethnic background on the latter and sub-par compared to their socioeconomic status on the former.

It was mocking your request for an unneeded explanation/example.

[Darththeo]

Okay. So...what I'm asking is, what sort of inner city culture hinders (a significant number of) blacks from passing the test? Because, surely, there's some inner city blacks that have passed, yes?

We aren't talking real world examples. Get this through your head. No one is talking specific real world examples. We are talking about potential ... that's it. We don't have enough information to get into specifics. Stop asking for specifics. If you can't understand the difference between African American cultures and White Cultures potentially playing a role (that's all people are saying) ... you're hopeless.

[bledgor]

As a English teacher myself mixed feelings. The test were horribly written, but I understand the purpose they serve (to ensure that as a teacher you know all the content you are teaching the students). I honestly didn't study at all for mine and passed with something equivalent to an 80%, if the people mentioned in the article can't pass the test they are lacking fundamental knowledge to teach their subject. It is only hurting the future/education process further removing in for the sake of racial diversity.

Improve the test, remake the test, but don't remove the test to get racial equality, the only thing that accomplishes is making America fall even further behind other nations in education.

[Crissi]

Drop the race IQ talk and anything else related to comparing races beyond the specific instance in the OP

[Anastacy]

We aren't talking real world examples. Get this through your head. No one is talking specific real world examples. We are talking about potential ... that's it. We don't have enough information to get into specifics. Stop asking for specifics. If you can't understand the difference between African American cultures and White Cultures potentially playing a role (that's all people are saying) ... you're hopeless.

And I'm asking you to explain the differences between the black culture and white culture you keep bringing up.

But if we're not talking about real world examples, why was the test pulled?

[Deletedaccount1]

Literally not even doing this. I don't disagree ... I am just saying you can't discount the cultural impact. I am not writing anything off.

I won't discount it if I can see it clearly exists with a clear example given with statistical evidence to back it up but you haven't give me any examples of a cultural impact.

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Drop the race IQ talk and anything else related to comparing races beyond the specific instance in the OP

Why is the OP exempt from a forum rule? It even draws a race based conclusion in the title.

[Darththeo]

And I'm asking you to explain the differences between the black culture and white culture you keep bringing up.

We bring it up as a potential reason ... nothing more. You don't seem to understand this. People don't mention something other than "this is possible" not "This is definitely the reason." The answer we don't know ... stop asking, it's not relevant.

But if we're not talking about real world examples, why was the test pulled?

The test was pulled because it showed that different races were passing at statistically different rates (note: Statistically the same =/= the same). After reviewing the test, it was found that the test was poorly made and needed reworking.

[Crissi]

You can approach it from how the tests are structured and how people respond differently to the tests, but going straight into some races are just dumber is not ok (which the IQ talk was doing)

[Anastacy]

We bring it up as a potential reason ... nothing more. You don't seem to understand this. People don't mention something other than "this is possible" not "This is definitely the reason." The answer we don't know ... stop asking, it's not relevant.



The test was pulled because it showed that different races were passing at statistically different rates (note: Statistically the same =/= the same). After reviewing the test, it was found that the test was poorly made and needed reworking.

Thanks for never answering my question.

Mod asked us to discontinue. Ciao!

[Darththeo]

I won't discount it if I can see it clearly exists with a clear example given with statistical evidence to back it up but you haven't give me any examples of a cultural impact.

Actually, just dropping this. Given the Mod.

[bledgor]

I think you are referring to the PRAXIS. This is the literacy test that is taken after (at least i took my literacy test after passing the PRAXIS).

Missouri doesn't have a PRAXIS, they have the MEGA (Missouri Education Gateway Assessment). Even if your point is true, unless the questions are proven to be biased towards/against certain groups if you can't pass it your aren't putting in the effort, the tests aren't that bad.

I substitute taught for 3 years and during that time I took the MEGA for History and passed all 6 of the required test with a weekend studying and without taking a history class in ~7 years. I really strongly stand against taking away assessments to measure the competency of educators when so many incompetent ones already get by. We need to be raising the bar not lowering it, that only hurts the prospects of the students.

[Darththeo]

Thanks for never answering my question.

Mod asked us to discontinue. Ciao!

Because your question doesn't make any sense to the discussion. You are asking "What culture would that be?" the answer is "We are talking about potential, we don't know exactly." You are asking a question for real world proof in a hypothetical. It doesn't make sense.

[Anastacy]

Because your question doesn't make any sense to the discussion. You are asking "What culture would that be?" the answer is "We are talking about potential, we don't know exactly." You are asking a question for real world proof in a hypothetical. It doesn't make sense.

So make a hypothetical answer? If it's a theory, you gotta follow all the way through, bud.

Anyways, you've made it clear you're either unwilling or incapable of answering. Toddles and sweet dreams.

[bledgor]

If the tests are letting incompetent teachers get by (and i agree with you that they do), then they are clearing failing at their goal, that is, if that is their goal. I am very in favor of people evaluating other people. Teachers getting evaluated (and seriously evaluated) by the administration would work best in my opinion. A more comprehensive student teacher program would work better. Why are we not putting more effort into bettering these? None of my admins really were able to give me a great evaluation. My student teaching was less than a semester, and i was only required to teach for one unit (less than a month).

I am okay with this type of assessment to ensure they teacher in questions knows the content, and further administrative assessments to ensure that knowledge is being properly taught to the students. Unfortunately admins can be biased and hire friends in some of the cases I know that can't teach. My student teaching was pretty good, I taught for 12 weeks of class and the 1 pre-class week were I set up the classroom and talking with my co-teacher about setting up lesson plans/the classroom. I missed the last 4 weeks of class with the students for the first semester so, might be different by state or even University. Some level of consistency is needed, but they are doing other things now that worry me (like at the building my family teaches at the English teachers will now have to do the same lesson plans, they have no individuality in their teaching anymore which is awful as different things work for different students, and some teachers do better with certain strategies).

[Sam the Wiser]

Anyone with a brain knows the majority of teachers are by and far worthless. I'll never forgot my 10th grade history teacher telling me she used the same lesson plan for 15 years. A lot of teachers just copy shit from decades ago and told students just to read the text book. What is your job again? And before you say they check the work. I've gone through numerous classes where I wrote complete bullshit and got A's. I love the education system!