WoW became a horrible boring grindfest

[WowIsDead64]

Blizzard swing from one extreme to another. Looks like, they don't want to make balanced game - they use Wow as polygon for "What new auditory of players can we attract, how long we will be able to hold it and how much old players will we lose?" experiments.

[IceMan1763]

new raids like tov and nh? mew dungeons like karazan? new quest like the suamar story line and more world quest they added? they have already added every thing you put under "actual content" and there will be more coming in 7.2 if that's your bar for "actual content" then you have no room to complain as they have added more of all of that since launch.

More is relative... if you could read you would understand that. They have consistently released less raids, dungeons, and other ACTUAL content in their least successful xpacs. The only difference is that they created systems to force repetition of that less (quantity wise) content in this one.

It's like he said they used to serve 20 ounces of Coke, now they serve 10. And you say WTF are you talking about, they're still serving Coke just like they always have! Reading comprehension is hard.

[D3athsting]

Wod: what a shitty game, no content at all!
Legion: what a shitty game, too much grind!!

[IceMan1763]

Wod: what a shitty game, no content at all!
Legion: what a shitty game, too much grind!!

Right, because they released no content at all again and added shitty systems to force grind.

[Lazuli]

Legion is a horrible expansion to play solo and very grindy.

With an active guild though it is great.

[Phuongvi]

Can't be a horrible grind if you don't grind hey.

[Deleted]

Actual content = new dungeons, areas, raids, quests, etc
Not actual content = making you grind hundreds of times the content above in order to be competitive (and before you say that only mythic raider need to, that's not the case due to the requirement creep needed to join trivial content groups).

There wasn't enough content in WoD (only like 8 dungeons or so and 3 raids, which is way less that what blizzard used to develop in previous expansions) but overall it is ok to run of stuff to do (then you can go play other game while waiting for new stuff to be released).

Pacing is also a thing, when you make 99 % of the game so easy and short people can complete it in a heartbeat, you're bound to have issues. If vanilla and TBC were so successful in that regard, it's because you always had (read : new dungeons/raids you didn't set foot in yet) something more to do, the common complaint back in the day was even that content was released too fast for most people to complete the previous content before reaching the new one.

Currently blizzard is following the horrible design of FFXIV (imo) where everything baring the end game raid in savage/mythic is faceroll easy and in order to try to keep players in the game (it doesn't work that well) makes you grind that easy content a very large amount of time.

Yeah, and then they want to compensate the loss in time spent with actual activities with obnoxious extension of travel times (=no flying, maze-like terrain etc.). I would rather spend some more time with doing quests, than travelling between quests.

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Blizzard swing from one extreme to another. Looks like, they don't want to make balanced game - they use Wow as polygon for "What new auditory of players can we attract, how long we will be able to hold it and how much old players will we lose?" experiments.

I kinda have the same feeling. Also, your signature is on point. WoW lost most RPG features and the competition in PvE is sick (thanks to item level statistics, for example).

[Brewhan]

like aion you mean. played that too & got my cleric to max level.
...next.

I think he meant ragnarok online back in the day. Now that is a real korean grind.

[zaino]

dont play a mmorpg if you cant handle the grind noobs

keep crying for wc4!

[IceMan1763]

dont play a mmorpg if you cant handle the grind noobs

keep crying for wc4!

Wow deserves the playerbase it's been left with. The community has never been so toxic.

[zaino]

Wow deserves the playerbase it's been left with. The community has never been so toxic.

if you want a fun friendly family game please go play club penguin mobile

[IceMan1763]

if you want a fun friendly family game please go play club penguin mobile

Thank you for proving my point.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

WoW tends to play with the line between being a fun grindfest and a boring grindfest, and as such I find it crosses back and forth frequently.

iLevel in general? Boring Grindfest.

Ranking up with the notoriously out of date and slow reputation system? Boring Grindfest.

Transmog, Old Raids, Dungeons, Weekly Events, Most World Quests? Pretty fun grindfest.

[Eleccybubb]

if you want a fun friendly family game please go play club penguin mobile

What the fuck is wrong with Club Penguin?

[ping-pong]

No it hasn't. You are doing it too much. You don't have to do every world quest and 1000s of dungeons. Do at the pace that is fun for you. People that wanna go hardcore can, the rest don't have to. It's not the game's fault, just your illusion that you have to do something. You don't.

[Niwes]

Simply put: an MMORPG has to have repetitive content, simply because otherwise, people will consume it too quickly, then shelf the game. Unfortunately, all tentatives to generate dynamic content are not very convincing so far.

Also, you seem to be focused on the "aoe" part in the words "piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grind". And I have an issue with that: the grind suddenly does not become less brainless if it's not AOE. For example, my noob hunter had to grind for leather to advance his leatherworking, so I had to kill quite a few yetis in Winterspring and skin them. I was not AOEing them down, but it didn't make the grind less brainless. Additionally, players' tools evolved. People have survival abilities, self-heals and escape mechanics. By your logic, it's a bad thing, because it allows for brainless AOE grinds and we should go back to 2-button leveling.


High-level M+ and high-level raiding is not done through AOE grind. In fact, it's getting more and more complex with every expansion.


No, but there is an objective law that an MMORPG has to have repetitive content in order to keep players subscribed (in a sub-based MMO anyways, F2P/B2P is a slightly different beast). Heck, even EvE Online (which is as sandboxy as it gets) has repetitive content.

to the aoe part, ofc i totally agree. it has nothing to do with aoe in general.

but i disagree to the "fast consume" part. bc when the content is challenging first and then become a repetitive grind, its the opposite, and that is what blizz wants: it is consumed slower.

dont get me wrong. i am not in the dellusion that challenging content holds for long. its ok to have brainless content. but not from the startup. and not everywhere. imo content could be a bit of a challenge first, and then become more of a grindfest after you learned it and outgeared it etc. and not only in raids.

i wether be against grinds nor i say there should be no brainless grinds. i just think it is possible without any problems, to design some WQ/mobs/outdoor content, which is a grind, but not a braindead grind from first time when you reach that content. and both of them dont have to be the standard playstyle in every corner of wow. diversity is key.

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It doesnt matter what the MMORPG player wants, its what the average mouthbreather with 10$ wants.

This has been the gaming scene since 2009, people need to accept it.

Gaming became from something "repulsive and nerdy" in the 90s/00s to something mainstream, its cool to game as long as its fast and doesnt take long.

Who do you wanna keep happy? The 10 MMORPG players with their 10$? Or the 90 mouthbreathers with their 10$? The answer is obvious.

Its all about profit.

i agree totally. sadly

[Deleted]

No. I mean a real korean MMO. 2 Moons and the like. Aion, pfft. Many korean MMOs have no such thing as quests, you just endlessly kill monsters and gain levels.

so aion isnt korean? ok then.

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What did you do after max level?

what the fuck has it got to do with you what i did next? are you my mother or something???

[Lorgar Aurelian]

More is relative... if you could read you would understand that. They have consistently released less raids, dungeons, and other ACTUAL content in their least successful xpacs. The only difference is that they created systems to force repetition of that less (quantity wise) content in this one.

It's like he said they used to serve 20 ounces of Coke, now they serve 10. And you say WTF are you talking about, they're still serving Coke just like they always have! Reading comprehension is hard.

that's just flat out untrue cata had a crap ton of "content" with 5 raids 2 new bg's a whole new pvp zone 5 80+ lvling zones and a whole bunch of reworks of old dungeons and brand new dungeons like the dragon soul souls not to mention the massive amount of "content" that was in the redone in the low lvl zones. and cata did pretty horribly. the only expan you could say the less raids/dungeons ect apply to would be wod as legion isn't done yet and you cant say a half build car has less stuff then a fully built car till you see the end results.

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Right, because they released no content at all again and added shitty systems to force grind.

if YOU could read you would have seen in my last post that they have added new raids dungeons and quests since launch.

[Niwes]

Reread the sentence. It's not the audience that dies, but the game.
More generally speaking, a company who cannot meet the needs of the customers tends to not do too well.

you say this while assuming the company really knows how to meet the needs of the customer, and foremost know WHAT the exactly needs are.

i say: there isnt such a thing as your "needs". i dont believe there are no kids out there, wanna go deep in a game. i dont believe every second jerk is like "fast n pace gaming, let me play 30min, gimme reward, i am happy. rinse and repeat.".

today there is a LOT of selffullfilling prophecy on the way.

hell, most standard stupids out there do not know what they even need or want. not in the slightest. its a miracle they know they are hungry or even know what they wanna do tomorrow, without ANYTHING telling them what they want or need.

ppl are sheeps. most of them. tell them they should buy this one and they buy. tell them this is hype, and they hype. the reason for this is, that they have no clue what they want/need. they NEED someone that tells them.

and here is, where the might AND freedom of companies come into play. THEY can dictate! THEY can decide what ppl want. hell, we sold so much shit we developed to ppl, just by going to match the newest trend and tell ppl "thats it". or by setting new trends, so everyone is following you. your company just need to have balls.

apple/steve jobs got that. take cheap hardware shit from a selfmurder-china-sweetshop (foxconn) and couple it with a super brand new feature (that nobody needs) and (most important) pack it in sweet stylish packaging. boing. you are god. steve jobs has known that its way easier to lead that ppl, than to find the right time for comin out. lead is easy. timing is key.

so, the conclusion is: there is no "market". there is no "we have to do xyz" or ppl wont buy it. if thats the case wow classic had be never a success and we all would still play everquest or ultima. the reason why wow come with "boom" was not that it was the same game as everquest/ultima but much better (higher quality). the reason was: it was new, it was from blizzard and it had the perfect timing.

casual gamers wasnt like "oh whats this, looks good, try/test, check quality and loved it". wow casual gamer in 2005-2007 was "dude, you have to play that new great shit that does everything different! play it! its new! its cool! HYPE for your life!".

this is how industry and ppl works.

[Sencha]

Transmog, Old Raids, Dungeons, Weekly Events, Most World Quests? Pretty fun grindfest.

That's exactly why I stopped WoW. Game is too much focused on those boring, non-challenging and useless things.