WW Legendary changes/nerfs 7.2

[Christinaki]

Thats not true, blizzard nerfed emperors capacitor 2 times before releasing the latest patch. They are undoing exactly these nerfs for now, but i wont hold my breath.

lol dude. We are saying the exact same things. They only revert good things. All nerfs are going live every time. No point in trusting the development idiots of wow. Also don't get hyped by chest buff. Immediately if they see it overshadowing hunters dh and others love children of them it will be nerfed again. This team and their leader. The pathetic little man called ion jazz I kostas wish they had half the balls of their counterpart in overwatch and Jeff Kaplan. The dude revert d a buff in two days and admitted the mistake. That is called balls. Ion is a gay excuse of a man. Along with his team

[Conjugate]

Their purpose here(my guess anyway) was to balance the legendaries --for the same spec-- so there aren't any extreme outliers that are always the best, and they actually seem to have done a really good work with this for a change, I can now see almost every legendary being used in some situations. I'm quite optimistic, it looks like they are finally doing something right with the legendaries design

There are two problems I see with it:

1. they might not remember that some buffs are needed to compensate for this and for the poor scaling WW has, which will only make things sadder for us come ToS compared to other classes.

2. if they don't go through with the same inter-legendaries balance for every spec, we will be in a very bad spot compared to the specs that get to keep their super-overpowered legendaries with no change.

Windwalker is in a very good state right now, at least where it matters, for example, it is probably the best or at least 2nd best melee for gul'dan mythic, and it's very good on elisande as well. Maybe you shouldn't freak out too much.

I would wait for some tuning pass(or lack thereof) closer to 7.2 release before i start yelling

[Greenspane]

Warcraftlogs begs to differ on your opinion that WW monks are 2nd best for mythic Guldan.

The Following are spec representation on warcraftlogs for mythic Guldan:

52 Assassination rogues
48 Havoc demon hunters
35 Frost Deathknights
32 Fury warriors
26 Ret paladins
5 Enhancement shamans
4 Windwalker monks
3 Feral Druids
3 Outlaw rogues
1 Sub rogue

Please fact check before you spew nonsense.

Sincerely,
Someone who plays a Windwalker

[Interim]

well , a LOT of windwalkers topping the charts without katsu , and some without DHC

u have not mentioned the crazy buff to Emperor and Gloves ..

i think windwalker monks will still be the shit in 7.2

Still? They aren't the shit now. Anywhere. Competitive in m+ I guess l. No one w any background in end game would take a monk over a dk or dh among other things.

[Beingbob]

Windwalker is in a very good state right now, at least where it matters, for example, it is probably the best or at least 2nd best melee for gul'dan mythic, and it's very good on elisande as well. Maybe you shouldn't freak out too much.

Are we really? Why were WW so underutilized by the top guilds if we're so amazing for NH?

[Kyyrk]

Are we really? Why were WW so underutilized by the top guilds if we're so amazing for NH?

No we are not. WW is decent in raid damage, same in Mythic +. We got some badass AOE, but we lack steady singel target dmg and our rotation feel messy and not smoothly, unless you have Katsuo tho

[amythist]

I can kind of see the reason why they would nerf these two, to try and close the preformance gap/rotation change created by getting these, I mean dropping FoF from 3 Chi to 1 makes the rotation go from, ok will I have enough chi when it comes off CD to oh it's off CD time to use it again, combine that with them buffing "utility" legendaries and other lower powered ones it seems to be them attempting to close the gap between the "good" legendaries and the "bad" ones

[Ace192]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=1#post-18

Go in the thread and just leave tons of constructive feedback on this. We need to have SEF bug fix levels of outrage in order to get our points across. We have one of the smallest communities so it feels like we don't get the same amount of dev communication as something like mages.

[Deleted]

Are we really? Why were WW so underutilized by the top guilds if we're so amazing for NH?

Because top guilds don't have monks. It's such a sketchy spec to main on that high level. There's zero utility so'd only bring a monk for the damage and historically they haven't been exactly top tier. Nobody wants to main a spec like that on that level. Like, why wouldn't you pick a rogue as your character first? The niche we have this expansion (Burst aoe with the new SEF) was also kinda hidden because SEF was broken so at the start nobody knew how good that would be.

The fact that Serenity did bring a WW alt to their progress in ToV and NH (And they did have a choice, it's not like they were stuck with a monk) shows that they did value his output. You question WWs power on Gul'dan in that quote, but it's clear by just looking at the what monks do there that we indeed are one of the better melee specs for that. The burst aoe/cleave and Transcendence for empowered bonds are just so strong on that boss.

[Khain]

Because top guilds don't have monks. It's such a sketchy spec to main on that high level. There's zero utility so'd only bring a monk for the damage and historically they haven't been exactly top tier. Nobody wants to main a spec like that on that level. Like, why wouldn't you pick a rogue as your character first? The niche we have this expansion (Burst aoe with the new SEF) was also kinda hidden because SEF was broken so at the start nobody knew how good that would be.

Unreal how people play victim on every situation. No utility? i think move speed is a pretty nice utility specially with the ring, people dont realize how helpful that move speed is, and also monks have probably the best aoe in the game which comes pretty handy on encounters like Tichondrius where you need someone to clear those bats really fast.

[Interim]

Unreal how people play victim on every situation. No utility? i think move speed is a pretty nice utility specially with the ring, people dont realize how helpful that move speed is, and also monks have probably the best aoe in the game which comes pretty handy on encounters like Tichondrius where you need someone to clear those bats really fast.

Can I have some of what he's drinking?

I love my ww just as much as anyone but the runspeed is negligible with its range especially and ae best in game? U must play w some real shitters

Was already anti looking forward to 7.2 cause blizzard thinks resetting the AP grind was somehow a good idea? Now pondering RL which sucks but perhaps they'll get it.

[Deleted]

Unreal how people play victim on every situation. No utility? i think move speed is a pretty nice utility specially with the ring, people dont realize how helpful that move speed is, and also monks have probably the best aoe in the game which comes pretty handy on encounters like Tichondrius where you need someone to clear those bats really fast.

Unreal how stupid people are. Keep reading until you figure out what i actually meant. Hint: I didn't mean that WW is shit right now. Just really dude.. i even went ahead and used Gul'dan as an example why WW is good in NH. Fucking hell..

Movement speed as a utility is the biggest meme the community has come up with. Surely if 10% movement speed was such a big deal, somebody would appreciate it or use March of the legion? Right? Well, nobody does.

[Zne]

This! Looking at Shadow Priest for example, which is now atm the best singel target dps class in game.. Just had two of their legendaries INCREASED and made BIS, even though they have like 3 sick Legendarys already..

But Yeah, I can understand the nerf as they were OP as hell, but I feel that they could have rather increased the bad ones, instead of nerfing the good ones.. Which they have done for almost every other class. Sad day for WW monks

First, Shadow are bottom tier single target - our jam is 2-3 cleave.
Second, welcome to our world. Leg belt 3 charge of mind blast nerf to two. BIS leg gone. Now the leg wrist getting nerfed as well. Not to mention shoulders also hit nerfed.

Clue in son, at least as ww monks you get invited to m+

[Deleted]

Unreal how stupid people are. Keep reading until you figure out what i actually meant. Hint: I didn't mean that WW is shit right now. Just really dude.. i even went ahead and used Gul'dan as an example why WW is good in NH. Fucking hell..

Movement speed as a utility is the biggest meme the community has come up with. Surely if 10% movement speed was such a big deal, somebody would appreciate it or use March of the legion? Right? Well, nobody does.

I thought people didn't use march because the movement speed itself is capped, which is why 7.2 are gonna make them better

[Conjugate]

Warcraftlogs begs to differ on your opinion that WW monks are 2nd best for mythic Guldan.

The Following are spec representation on warcraftlogs for mythic Guldan:

52 Assassination rogues
48 Havoc demon hunters
35 Frost Deathknights
32 Fury warriors
26 Ret paladins
5 Enhancement shamans
4 Windwalker monks
3 Feral Druids
3 Outlaw rogues
1 Sub rogue

Please fact check before you spew nonsense.

Sincerely,
Someone who plays a Windwalker

Sorry for the delayed response, I'm not checking mmochamp too frequently nowdays

The data you are referring to is problematic to say the least, because:

A. Many guilds are private logging and a lot of data is missing.

B. Windwalker is a very rare fish and many guilds just don't have one, you can be sure every guild that has a windwalker would use it for gul'dan.

C. While the amount of people that play the class CAN be a good indicator of what is the best, sometimes there are things that players just fail to see, mostly due to prejudices and previous opinions they have that are not always based on reality, and I would argue this is such a case.

So what WW offers on gul'dan is basically...

1. Good AoE on regular eyes.
2. Ignore bonds. In general transcendece is EXTREMELY useful for gul'dan, not just for the bonds.
3. Best burst on empowered eyes.
4. Enough mobility to be completely fine with the high-movement phase2 without any problem. Ask DKs how much fun they are having^^
5. Plenty of defensives to survive the encounter with ease(karma, diffuse, healing winds are all very neat there).
6. Amongst the best nuke capabilities for illidan-vulnerable phase, if not THE best.
7. Best parasytes damage.
8. A stun for parasytes.

And many more things but I think I made my point clear...

I would be very curious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Sincerely,
Someone who(also) plays a Windwalker.

P.S. Admittedly I played pretty terrible on this attempt, but here's a video of gul'dan of me playing windwalker and it does show some of the strengths of the spec pretty well. Surely this isn't a scientific proof but it might help convincing you that at least some of my claims aren't solely "spewing bullshit".

https://youtu.be/fApwIS7mP0c

Cheers^^

--written from phone, pardon the typos and shit formatting--

[Greenspane]

A. Many guilds are private logging and a lot of data is missing.

B. Windwalker is a very rare fish and many guilds just don't have one, you can be sure every guild that has a Windwalker would use it for gul'dan.

A. I agree with you that some guilds might be private logging but that's riddled with anecdotal evidence and speculation. You might know guilds who bring Windwalker monks but based on the data at hand we can see that its not common for whatever reason. We can't assume on what we don't know or see. The last I checked, there were 11 guilds on wow progress that have downed mythic Guldan. I doubt the sample size would increase much more than stated previously and I doubt Windwalkers are the secret weapon for Guldan that every guild wants to hide.

B. What is/are the core reason(s) that Windwalker monks are a "rare" fish?


I do want to say its nice to see someone trying to prove it wrong.

Sincerely,
A voice from the silent Monk community

[Height]

I personally think WW is rarer, not because it's bad, but because the class fantasy appeals to less people. Mistweavers and Brewmasters seem fairly less representative in their healing and tanking communities as well. At least it seems that way to me.

[Conjugate]

A. I agree with you that some guilds might be private logging but that's riddled with anecdotal evidence and speculation. You might know guilds who bring Windwalker monks but based on the data at hand we can see that its not common for whatever reason. We can't assume on what we don't know or see. The last I checked, there were 11 guilds on wow progress that have downed mythic Guldan. I doubt the sample size would increase much more than stated previously and I doubt Windwalkers are the secret weapon for Guldan that every guild wants to hide.

B. What is/are the core reason(s) that Windwalker monks are a "rare" fish?


I do want to say its nice to see someone trying to prove it wrong.

Sincerely,
A voice from the silent Monk community

There are quite a bit more than 11 guilds that have killed mythic gul'dan as of today, just saying

At any rate, looking at numerical representation specifically for gul'dan means about nothing about the strength of the spec, because you can't just go "hey windwalker is super strong for gul'dan so let's have 3 of them in". You need to already have a geared and skilled windwalker ready to roll, and if due to(various reasons discussed below), you simply don't HAVE a windwalker in your roster, there really isn't much you can do about it?

Reasons(I think) for why windwalker is so rare:

1. Relative complexity frightens away fotm rerollers.
2. No real raid utility(I actually --DO-- think that sometimes the 25% march movement speed can be considered a big asset, and gets even stronger when you play with low-expertise players as they usually end up moving "less effeciently" in general, but I don't feel like getting into THAT argument now).
3. Inconsistent design riddled with bugs at every turn. If you played windwalker for a few years you are probably familiar with the frquent feeling of "WHAT THE MEOW DO THEY EVEN HAVE A BRAIN IN THEIR POSSESSIONS CUZ IF SO THEY SURELY USE IT AS A CUP HOLDER AND NOT AS A THINKING BOX" towards the designers.
4. A vicious circle of (almost nobody plays it)>(due to lack of "good" players playing it, numerical data is giving a weaker impression)>(nobody understands the potential it has)>(almost nobody plays it)
5. Theorycrafting doesn't manage to capture the spec properly(especially for cleave situations), which gives bad PR to the spec.
6. The nerfs. Due to the spec being so interestingly designed, when something is too powerful it's gonna be TOO GODAMN POWERFUL, and you can trust blizzard to be true to their design philosophy, and not just tune it down into being reasonable, but instead squash it into tiny bits and pieces of cute, bleeding mash of useless leftovers(ahm ahm 50% legendary nerf to boots/DHC)/CoF memes/Serenity "redesign"/SotW pre-EN adjustment/karma cloak defensive decapitation..). This is frustrating and I know quite a few players that just couldn't handle the retardation train and went to find their luck with the more "sane" specs.

But then again, none of these terribad and sad facts make WW any worse on gul'dan, they are just the cause for the fact that the vast majority of guilds don't have a WW, so they obviously can't have one in on that fight^^

At any rate, considering you are mostly hand-waving and did not raise any good counter-arguments to what I said earlier, I'm gonna assume you are convinced and that we now all agree, woohoo!

[Saverem]

So the legendary changes just came out:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3487404?page=1

and it seems like the bis legendarys for WW monk is getting a hard nerf.

Katsuo's Eclipse
Reduce the cost of Fists of Fury by 1 Chi (was 2 Chi).

Drinking Horn Cover
The duration of Storm, Earth, and Fire is extended by 0.4 seconds (was 0.6 seconds) for every Chi you spend.

What are your thoughts on this?

I can understand that they want to bring all the legendaries in towards around the same DPS effectiveness, but they have to understand that this nerf brings our already middle-of-the-road DPS to an even worse position.

ie, would be great if they reduced cost of FoF to 2 Chi instead of 3 to compensate.

- - - Updated - - -

2. Ignore bonds. In general transcendece is EXTREMELY useful for gul'dan, not just for the bonds.

Wait, how does this work? I've used transcendance on NORMAL Gul'dan to port out and still died because I broke bonds without anyone near by. How do you use transcendence to break bonds on M no less and still not die?

Also, you forgot Wind Walking, pretty nice stackable 10% (or 25% if you have ring) movement speed buff to your fellow raiders. Helps those poor DKs a lot.

[Interim]

Use it to port in not out. Allows u to solo break essentially