Refuge/Immigrant Crisis 2.0

[Ravenblade]

You need to educate yourself

Emphasizing economic perspective and that's a muddy one and can be taken to an extreme. The fiscal perspective is still holds true which is what matters since it's in-public sector money coming from taxpayers meaning everyone pays with the same obligation. When the money goes back into private sector that obligation no longer holds true since it's not distributed back like with a watering can.

[Wildtree]

They are safe in Turkey, as far as I know they're not passing to your countries from other countries at war.

They are NOT safe in Turkey.
They are allowed there, temporarily. Their living conditions are horrendous.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/insid...ees-in-turkey/
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/09/29/...ns-stay-turkey
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6969551.html
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/utterly...camp-1.2680412


It would take you but a little bit of your self sheltered lifetime to inform yourself before you talk shit about these people.

[Yriel]

You have absolutely no clue, it seems..

First of all.. For starters.. They flee Syria. That's far from safe, else they wouldn't give up what they had. Syria was a rather modern country prior to that war.
Where do they go? To the Syrian border. What's at that border? The forces of the neighboring country. You cannot simply get into another country willy nilly. That's not how it works. You might get shot trying.
So, what country is that? Depends now.. For Syrians the choices are: Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey.
That's their immediate neighbors.
Iraq, right there, not the best choice. It's a combat zone itself, since much of that part of Iraq is ISIS controlled. Makes it pretty much a no-go.
Lebanon and Jordan allow them in. And have so already, in the millions.
Their capacities are basically exceeded. The living conditions are declining therefore, and the only improvement there is for the refugee is to not get killed by military actions (for now at least).
Leaves us with Turkey. Which is a topic by itself. It took a LOT of negotiations by the European nations to get the Turks to take in some refugees. Took negotiating to let people pass through. Because, in order to pass through a country, you gotta enter it first, and that's not allowed by default.
You cannot go to Brazil and say, I wanna drive through your country, I'm on my way to Canada.. That's not gonna happen without due process. Even if you're a refugee, you won't. The country you're entering has to recognize your status as refugee in the first place. That's up to the individual countries views and laws.

Do you get the idea now?

It would be safer and quicker for them to flee to iran or saudi-arabia. But they don't pay as much welfare as we europeans do.

Yeah, it's completely stupid to move to a country where you have better options to make a good life.
Oh my dear good, denseness in the next level!
Wanna play a hypocrite and also claim that if YOU were an immigrant, you'd live naked in a tent just to show gratitude to others?

Their motivation is understandable but why should we care and let them in? Is a "good life" now a human right? "Oh no i have to work here while in Germany i get money for doing nothing. You HAVE to let me in"...

[Moratori]

They are NOT safe in Turkey.

They are safe, that the living conditions aren't the most optimal doesn't mean they aren't safe.

Also, I don't recall talking shit about people.

[Wildtree]

So it's better to risk dying at sea due to greed than being safe?

And again a bunch of hogwash...
You either prove it that all people who choose to take the risk are doing so because of greed, or you gotta shut the fuck up.

Btw.. Why didn't you stay in Thailand.. Is it possible that greed was a factor? You know, better living, money, all the good stuff.
Thailand ain't that ideal, but certainly no need to leave it either. One can live there fairly decent.

[Cuppy]

You can doubt it however much you want to. We didn't have much.

When you don't know the difference of having "Not much" and "Nothing". Priceless!

No, I lived there until and during my teen years, I experienced the turmoil that was after the 2006 coup.

So why go america? You weren't exactly in danger were you?

Make the proper arrangements if you want to move to another country to get a better life. Don't put yourself in harms way by embarging on a dangerous travel and then expect people to feel sorry for something you caused yourself.

Proper arrangements? I wake up in the middle of the night, half of our house has blown to atoms with half of my family. What kind of arrangements?
Quick coffee at starbucks while choosing were to take a plane right?
You're blessed tho, I can't imagine how easy it is to live with such ignorance

[Wildtree]

It would be safer and quicker for them to flee to iran or saudi-arabia. But they don't pay as much welfare as we europeans do.

That implies that those nations allow them in...

[Cuppy]

They are safe, that the living conditions aren't the most optimal doesn't mean they aren't safe.
Also, I don't recall talking shit about people.

Says someone whose parents took off to america to build a better life.
What a day to be alive hahahaha

[Deleted]

Those were your words not his. He even contradicted himself, a large part of != more than you give, which kind of negates the whole "net recipient" point.

My words?! There is the link, it's a quote from the interview
And the rest what you wrote is just another huge if and but....

[Wildtree]

Also, I don't recall talking shit about people.

Oh you do, constantly even.
You accuse them of lowly motifs, accuse them for being stupid, and the list goes on..

[Moratori]

And again a bunch of hogwash...
You either prove it that all people who choose to take the risk are doing so because of greed, or you gotta shut the fuck up.

Don't like that people don't see the world the way you do or something?

Btw.. Why didn't you stay in Thailand.. Is it possible that greed was a factor? You know, better living, money, all the good stuff.
Thailand ain't that ideal, but certainly no need to leave it either. One can live there fairly decent.

Yes, but we waited for the proper arrangements.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh you do, constantly even.
You accuse them of lowly motifs, accuse them for being stupid, and the list goes on..

People who put themselves in harms way due to greed, yes. Not people in the camps like you implied.

[Tinch]

So it's better to risk dying at sea due to greed than being safe?

I've never said I agree that they should risk trying to get to Europe, but I don't try and pretend that I can understand the absolute despair that they must be feeling to conclude that trying to make that journey is better than staying where they are.

I can understand the arguments that say they should stay in Turkey, but trying to say that they are being greedy is simply pathetic.

[Wildtree]

They are safe, that the living conditions aren't the most optimal doesn't mean they aren't safe.

They're only safe from military attacks. Therefore are subject to human trafficking, famine, other health issues, crimes of all sorts.. that's not what one calls safe.

Why don't you go to such camp and stay there for a week? Just a week...
Then come back and tell us about safety.

[Moratori]

They're only safe from military attacks.

So they are safe in the manner that's required from the conventions for providing protection to refugees?

[Deleted]

You do realise they tried to displace the people in power and this is the exactly how the Syrian civil war started in the first place?

Desperate for the wrong reasons? They're trying to escape being massacred by ISIS or bombed to death by the Assad government, if that's not a justifiable reason I don't know what is. Yes in an ideal world they would stay in the refugee camps and wait to obtain asylum in Europe through formal channels but they're not stupid, they know that there are millions of other people who have the same idea and their chances of ever having their case even heard is slim to none.

Anyone who feels they have no other choice than to take the risks they do trying to get themselves and their families into Europe is obviously in an utterly desperate situation. Considering the torture that these people have been through, I wouldn't even pretend to act like I could relate to what they're going through.

You need to call in question reality and not what the comers say. It's a classic case of opposed interests. Think! Don't feel and then think, or feelthink to cut corners. Or like some say, think - fire from ice - think!

It isn't the fault of Europe that Middle Eastern peoples so far have only been governed succesfully via tyranny. It's not our fault that theirs were displaced, for that matter. That was the USA exerting worldly powers to Manifest Destiny. Blame them, not us.

And in the end if these people were the kind of people we wanted here they wouldn't be making a trail of devastation wherever they go. Pollution, crime and social issues follow these immigrants like swarms of flies - and you cannot call them anything but immigrants and forceful ones at that. Invaders maybe, following the logic. If they were immigrants we'd have reason to expect that they'd try to improve everyone's lives here, yeah? And instead we have hairy people with different skin tones constantly insulting us, assaulting us, and using resources that by all right should go to fixing the numerous problems most European countries still have, because we just don't live in an utopia yet. Who are you to claim that we should give to people who don't even have the decency to ask?

[Deleted]

Emphasizing economic perspective and that's a muddy one and can be taken to an extreme. The fiscal perspective is still holds true which is what matters since it's in-public sector money coming from taxpayers meaning everyone pays with the same obligation. When the money goes back into private sector that obligation no longer holds true since it's not distributed back like with a watering can.

So the money literally goes back to Germany with extra profit, but you say it's a muddy economic perspective.
Okay, then lets talk about other facts. First of all stop acting like that money is some gift from the mighty and noble Germans.
That money belong to those countries and it's just their fair share. They gave up on that money when they signed the Schengen agreement, they gave up on that money when they accepted the EU tax system, they gave up on that money when they let in the multinational companies, they gave up on that money when they had to close down whole industry sectors to fit into the EU plans.

Hell, they could earn more money just from taxing your import to them.
Or how about the EU trading agreements? Chines ships unload their shit in Germany and Holland, you guys tax the shit out of them and literally steal that money then spread the chine shit freely in 27 other countries.... Eastern countries could earn more money by taking their share than what you hand out as a "gif for the plebs"....

And again, almost all that money literally goes back to you.... your economy is YOU. There are huge problems if i have to explain this to you.

[Wildtree]

Don't like that people don't see the world the way you do or something?

No, but there's indeed deplorable views.
And such deplorable view is judgmental bullshit that comes out of ones ass.
We live in a society where the principle of innocent until proven guilty is one of the highest ones.
With that said, you accusing someone of something, you better prove it. Otherwise, again, you have to shut the fuck up. Because you have no leg to stand on.

Yes, but we waited for the proper arrangements.

You didn't wait for anything, your parents did. Plus you didn't answer the question.
Or only partially. And that part you answered was acknowledging that your parents moved to the US out of greed.

People who put themselves in harms way due to greed, yes. Not people in the camps like you implied.

No, you implied everyone on those ships motif is greed.

- - - Updated - - -

So they are safe in the manner that's required from the conventions for providing protection to refugees?

Nope.. still nope..

[sheggaro]

Oh they might actually have to grow a spine now and simply stop them from entering Europe themselves.

[Moratori]

With that said, you accusing someone of something, you better prove it. Otherwise, again, you have to shut the fuck up. Because you have no leg to stand on.

If you're trying to get to a better place from a safe place it is greed. There's no arguing that. You want a better life. That's greed.

I see no reason why you should reward people who put themselves in dangerous situations because of greed.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope.. still nope..

From what I can find it is considered a safe country.

[Mayhem]

My words?! There is the link, it's a quote from the interview
And the rest what you wrote is just another huge if and but....

Nowhere in that link did he go into detail about how germany profits, those were your words.

I´m repeating his words. So you agree that his words are just if and but?