[22/M] Kissless Virgin. Fallen for a lady and friend-zoned hard. Where do I go?

[Gandrake]

I dunno, it all just seems really dramatic. I mean, I get teen angst and stuff, and that's fine when you're, as you put it, a "young man" - I guess the op is only like 22 or whatever but it just seems like you'd be past that point by that point in your life, you know? Like, everyone thinks they're all deep and whatever when they're 16 but... it gets to a point, you know?

Mental maturity is one of those things falling out of trend these days. I was about 15 then, but I didn't really get over it until I was about 22 and ran into her again. This took some time because it was not something I actively worked at. I definitely needed the time away from it but I would not have seen her sooner since I was a gigantic gluttonous pizza gobbling dr pepper guzzling hermit mother fucker.

Actually, I take it back. I wasn't fucking anyone's mother at that time. Maybe in my dreams.

But in some ways, I miss that naiveté. It made me optimistic thinking it was just something you had to try hard at. Knowing it's just a crapshoot and experiencing sex for the first time and hoing it up for a year really ruined my outlook on life. Now I don't even want a relationship because it feels so ingenuine and the amount of romance I experience in hookups or one night stands is sufficient. I am not even sure love is an emotion I can express for another person so that is pretty unsettling considering some of the responsibilities I have taken upon myself.

A lot of people are fortunate to be gifted with life experience, whether or not they regret how they acquired it. With enough experience you can handle anything proficiently. When you're stuck way behind people your own age in experience it just makes you weird.

[Draconian7972]

If she was not attracted to him, why would she watch sexy movies with him?

[kneehidude]

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I'm sorry but a friend saying "Don't talk about your romance" really doesn't sound like a friend at all!

I don't see how it is any different than anyone else saying "please don't talk about x topic around me, it makes me feel uncomfortable."

I see what you are saying, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I'm not comfortable talking about this subject with you."

[Koriani]

She sees you as a friend; that probably won't change no matter what YOU do.

She may figure it out one day - but she may not.

YOu can't pin all your happiness on one person (even if she is your girlfriend wife or child; no one is your happiness!).

If you think you can stand to be her friend that's fine; but you need to draw the boundary about talking about guys if it hurts you. She should be understanding that its "too soon" right now for you to deal with being like a "girlfriend" and talking about guy's she's dating - maybe once you've healed up, but not now.

If she doesn't respect that then yea, you've become an emotional tampon.

As a grown up (40yo female here) I've been where you are with the boys, and I've had to do that with boys that really were just friends to me. I'm also now a shrink and I do marital counseling; so I do know what i'm talking about here .

Some of them (My old flames/bf) were able to remain friends (and some I've been friends with for 20 years still!), but some were not. And that really comes down to you and her and each of you individually if you can compartmentalize yourself enough to stay friends.

Sometimes you have to get some distance, emotionally, take a break - and then come back and try again. That can be the *best* way to keep someone a friend who was someone you were attracted to; take a few weeks "off" - hard at first, but don't text, don't call, don't talk - take a REAL BREAK. Give yourself a few weeks/month or more to help that heart heal up - and then you reconnect and pick your friendship back up with a bit of a scab over the sore spots.

Sometimes its the only way to have a shot; otherwise you risk keeping that candle lit far too long than you should for yourself - and she will keep putting you off. ANd you'll just keep getting hurt until it ends badly/angrily.

At least taking a few weeks off you get a bit of scab over the hurt feelings and it can be much easier to remain "just friends."

But she's gotta back off talkin' to you right now about guys.

And also realize that you have only known her a few months - its not long enough. Its still a "crush" (and as much as I hate that word I know i've had them to - on online people and IRL) and that doesn't mean it would be "true love forevah." It takes six months for just the "cuddle hormones" (Oxytocin) to wear off and for the rose colored glasses to start to fade.

Its tough to get healthy boundaries with others; its tough to walk away from a great friendship for a few weeks to get some perspective (to protect yourself) but not doing so risks you really being in an UNHEALTHY Friendship because of the pain she keeps causing on accident; and you just trying to stay near her.

There WILL be other girls. There is not just 'one person' for everyone. There are lots of people for everyone. People fall in love (usually) several times in their life. You may feel its a late start; but there will come another.

Now as to fetishes - you may have learned about what oversharing too early means - and the reality that girls aren't porn stars (or cartoons or whatever fetish you have). Unless its a pretty "common" fetish - you may consistently run into women who are made uncomfortable by them.

I would advise not disclosing that too early. Wait until someone knows you (or you know them) enough to know how they would receive it and whether they'd take it as something they'd be anxious about if they aren't into it. Some people wno't be bothered by it, "No sorry its nice that you want me to pee on ya' but i'm not into that too bad so sad suck it up baby." And move on in the relationship without a blip. But some people will just feel that since they arn't into it "you wont ever be happy" - no matter what you say because they just see it as "this thing I can't do for you" (and in a relationship that can be very scary for a lot of people).

So that's something I'd keep close to the chest unless you know the person isn't going to take it as a relationship failure if they just aren't into that.

Note: I ddin't read the other holy crap 17 pages so... that's just my advice.

[Detritivores]

I couldn't stomach the rest of this thread once TRP circle jerk gained speed... nothing screams kissless virgin like taking your queues on relationships and your own sexuality from a fucking subreddit...

Here's a novel idea: Live your life. It's amazing how much more respect and interest you get when you're an actual human who isn't defined by their significant other or lack thereof. Eventually you'll run into a female that wants the same things you want. It isn't rocket surgery.

And for fuck sake... fuck someone vanilla style before you develop fetishes you feel so strongly about you share them with casual acquaintances. What in the actual fuck...

[Triks]

I couldn't stomach the rest of this thread once TRP circle jerk gained speed... nothing screams kissless virgin like taking your queues on relationships and your own sexuality from a fucking subreddit...

Here's a novel idea: Live your life. It's amazing how much more respect and interest you get when you're an actual human who isn't defined by their significant other or lack thereof. Eventually you'll run into a female that wants the same things you want. It isn't rocket surgery.

And for fuck sake... fuck someone vanilla style before you develop fetishes you feel so strongly about you share them with casual acquaintances. What in the actual fuck...

The Redpill is one of the worst things you can adopt. By redpill standards I would be pretty "alpha" - I am fairly muscular, earn a decent living, am respected by my peers and at work and I have a girlfriend. What they fail to understand is that to "gain" all of this you don't have to be a conceited and mysantropic fuck. The majority of dating advice you will find online is complete garbage but the redpill is garbage, wrapped around an insane philosophy.

One of the few times I went on that subforum (and Reddit for that matter) there was a thread about a guy squatting 140kg and not getting the respect he thought he deserved from women because of his feat. I am really saddened to see that lifting weights - pretty much the real-life equivalent of WoW - has been fetishiesed by these people. Girls want muscles, that's correct but that's the end product of lifting weights, not the amount you lift. The funniest thing is that the guy was squatting 20kg more than my best competition bench. What's this world coming to.

[Deleted]

The OP made perfectly clear that he has feelings for this girl.

And like it or not, those types of things don't go away when you decide to stay platonic. With platonic friendships comes bonds, and with bonds come attractiveness.

So even if he COULD put that aside and remain friends with her, him having to put that aside results in a friendship thats a higher toll on him emotionally than another friendship with a dude where he doesn't have to deal with that factor at all.

Unless this girl brings some kind of premium to this hypothetical (maybe her network can get him places economically or something) there's no reason for him to stick around.

None.

This post is naieve as fuck, Erin.

How does a friendship with someone you're into take an emotional toll? Not being able to get a leg over is actually EMOTIONALLY DRAINING? Pleeeeease. It'll pass and he'll be fine. He's being dramatic. That and is he the sort, you think, who can be picky with friends?

[Deleted]

The local brothel

[Louisa Bannon]

Never waste time. No is no, always. You meet someone that maybe wants to play games with this idea you just tell them how it is for you. No is no.

Esp. do not waste time with anything online. Move to real life quickly or assume its time wasted.

I personally have very good luck on the first date. Usually we end up in bed before we even go out. Those desires sated, dinner and whatever else is usually really great. Basically I am suggesting that sex is a great ice-breaker to deeper things.

Maybe its TMI and certainly YMMV, but if I don't get what I want on the first date I almost never do. No sex on the first date usually means no sex ever better than 90% of the time. Maybe that's just my experience though.

Finally, there's plenty of fish in the sea. Keep your line in the water and well-baited. When opportunity knocks, you need to be ready. This part probably applies to everything in life.

Best of luck.

[Docturphil]

Stop believing crap you see on the internet. I've always been the funny guy in my social circles.

I only started getting laid when I started to work out and wear nice clothes.

Personality can help, but it's an enhancer of appeal, not a creator.

It's quite possible you're not as funny as you think, or at least not funny to women.

Plain fact is that a lot of women are sexually attracted to men with a good sense of humor that can make them laugh. It's a lot more than just an enhancer of appeal. Ask a few women to name their top 3 traits they look for in a guy. I'd guess at least half of them will say they want a guy who is funny.

Actually it looks like 77% rank a sense of humor as their number one trait:

http://www.menshealth.com/guy-wisdom...dig-funny-guys

In a Men's Health survey of more than 1,000 American women ages 21 to 54, 77 percent of women ranked a sense of humor as their number one must-have in a man...

Hell, take it from reddit if you want:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/co...to_funny_guys/

I mean the evidence is overwhelming. Women find humor sexually attractive. We're not talking clowns here, we're talking a witty type of humor like I described. Usually sarcastic humor works best.

Anyways, the point is women like funny guys just as much if not more than they like smart guys or fit guys or good looking guys. The way your attraction to women works is not the same as the way a woman's attraction to men works. There are going to be some things you don't really understand but you just have to accept them. This is apparently one of them.

Oh... but wait... I should ignore what I read on the internet right? Instead I should listen to you and go off of your limited experiences because the internet is highly unreliable and whatever you say is solid gold and should probably be written down in some religious texts.

[Deleted]

It's quite possible you're not as funny as you think, or at least not funny to women.

Plain fact is that a lot of women are sexually attracted to men with a good sense of humor that can make them laugh. It's a lot more than just an enhancer of appeal. Ask a few women to name their top 3 traits they look for in a guy. I'd guess at least half of them will say they want a guy who is funny.

Actually it looks like 77% rank a sense of humor as their number one trait:

http://www.menshealth.com/guy-wisdom...dig-funny-guys



Hell, take it from reddit if you want:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/co...to_funny_guys/

I mean the evidence is overwhelming. Women find humor sexually attractive. We're not talking clowns here, we're talking a witty type of humor like I described. Usually sarcastic humor works best.

Anyways, the point is women like funny guys just as much if not more than they like smart guys or fit guys or good looking guys. The way your attraction to women works is not the same as the way a woman's attraction to men works. There are going to be some things you don't really understand but you just have to accept them. This is apparently one of them.

Oh... but wait... I should ignore what I read on the internet right? Instead I should listen to you and go off of your limited experiences because the internet is highly unreliable and whatever you say is solid gold and should probably be written down in some religious texts.

I'll agree with this. I don't really understand your argument but I could never date someone who didn't make me laugh. They d9nt have to be super witty or whatever but if they can make me laugh that's a huge first step.

Because if they can't make you laugh then what do you have other than (at best) great sex and good serious talk. And you can't fuck the whole way through a 30 year marriage

[Docturphil]

I'll agree with this. I don't really understand your argument but I could never date someone who didn't make me laugh. They d9nt have to be super witty or whatever but if they can make me laugh that's a huge first step.

Because if they can't make you laugh then what do you have other than (at best) great sex and good serious talk. And you can't fuck the whole way through a 30 year marriage

My argument was mainly against pateuvasiliu's claim that women don't have sex with men because of their personality, which is just a ridiculous thing to say.

No one will fuck you for your personality dude, come on.

You'll just end up friendzoned and turned into a self confidence machine for girls that will then proceed to shag some other dude that looks hot.


What your personality CAN do, though, is get you into some nice social circles and get you social status, which IS something someone might fuck you for.

He was basically saying that women base their attraction to men purely based on their physical appearance, which is just absurd. Probably a projection of his own shallowness.

[Deleted]

I mean it's gonna be true in some cases I guess, but everyone has different needs in different ratios for different things. Which is why any thing of like 'do this cause women / men are into it' is ridiculous.

[alturic]

That's a point, how can you have fetishes if you're a virgin? I mean, liking the idea of something and actually liking it is totally different.

Can't tell if serious?

It's called watching porn and being into a certain category? You make it sound like you can't watch porn and form an opinion on the type of sexual acts you really enjoy watching.

[Deleted]

Can't tell if serious?

It's called watching porn and being into a certain category? You make it sound like you can't watch porn and form an opinion on the type of sexual acts you really enjoy watching.

The porn you are into and the things you are actually into are so wildly different. For example, i'm a gay woman with very little interest in men whatsoever. I sometimes watch gay dude porn though because it's more visual and the dudes tend to feel like they enjoy it more, and gay lady porn is always weird and gross and ridiculous and oh god the fingernails and I can't deal with it all, it's too embarrassing.

People are into all sorts of porn but it doesn't mean thats what they want in real life. I dont mind some mild bdsm in my porn either, but im very vanilla when it comes to real life sex.

[Moratori]

Can't tell if serious?

It's called watching porn and being into a certain category? You make it sound like you can't watch porn and form an opinion on the type of sexual acts you really enjoy watching.

I enjoy watching pretty violent one or bdsm, doesn't mean I want someone to do these things to me when I actually have sex.

[alturic]

The porn you are into and the things you are actually into are so wildly different. For example, i'm a gay woman with very little interest in men whatsoever. I sometimes watch gay dude porn though because it's more visual and the dudes tend to feel like they enjoy it more, and gay lady porn is always weird and gross and ridiculous and oh god the fingernails and I can't deal with it all, it's too embarrassing.

People are into all sorts of porn but it doesn't mean thats what they want in real life. I dont mind some mild bdsm in my porn either, but im very vanilla when it comes to real life sex.

So either a.) that's not your fetish, or b.) you're one of the types who watch Fifty Shades of whatever and get turned on, secretely wishing you were the girl(s) even though you admit to being a plain jane.

I'll admit, being attracted to the same sex, while watching the opposite sex having sex turning you on is odd... are you attracted to dicks or pussy? To me it sounds like you think you're attracted to pussy but you're really not.

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I enjoy watching pretty violent one or bdsm, doesn't mean I want someone to do these things to me when I actually have sex.

So you're just as bad as Erin. I guess what I'm saying is, how can you watch category of porn X but not be "into it" in reality? SOMETHING clearly turns you on about those particular sexual acts? To put it another way, if you can watch some girls getting choked, and get so turned on by it that you have the squirt of your life... how can you not say you'd want to have the person (or persons heh) who you share your body with do those same things to you... giving you those same types of pleasure?

[Moratori]

So you're just as bad as Erin. I guess what I'm saying is, how can you watch category of porn X but not be "into it" in reality? SOMETHING clearly turns you on about those particular sexual acts?

If I would be subjected to it when having sex I'd probably break down and panic and if it's the more graphic stuff I'd risk injuries or dying. I like some choking but that can get panicky too.

To put it another way, if you can watch some girls getting choked, and get so turned on by it that you have the squirt of your life... how can you not say you'd want to have the person (or persons heh) who you share your body with do those same things to you... giving you those same types of pleasure?

Choking isn't that violent... Some of the stuff I watch is pretty graphic, animated stuff. Sometimes the character dies, other times they're left very injured.

[Deleted]

So either a.) that's not your fetish, or b.) you're one of the types who watch Fifty Shades of whatever and get turned on, secretely wishing you were the girl(s) even though you admit to being a plain jane.

I'll admit, being attracted to the same sex, while watching the opposite sex having sex turning you on is odd... are you attracted to dicks or pussy? To me it sounds like you think you're attracted to pussy but you're really not.

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So you're just as bad as Erin. I guess what I'm saying is, how can you watch category of porn X but not be "into it" in reality? SOMETHING clearly turns you on about those particular sexual acts?

No, dicks are gross. But what you want from porn is totally different to what you want from actual sex. They are two totally different things. Just like I play videogames where I do things that I don't actually want from real life. Porn isn't there to substitute my sex life, it's there to add to it. If I'm watching porn that's basically the exact stuff I would be doing in real life, then I may as well just go have sex in real life, you know? I watch it to get excited about stuff that would never happen to me because I find it uncomfortable or unpleasant or just uninteresting in real life.

[Azadina]

So you're just as bad as Erin. I guess what I'm saying is, how can you watch category of porn X but not be "into it" in reality? SOMETHING clearly turns you on about those particular sexual acts? To put it another way, if you can watch some girls getting choked, and get so turned on by it that you have the squirt of your life... how can you not say you'd want to have the person (or persons heh) who you share your body with do those same things to you... giving you those same types of pleasure?

That's just silly. Reality and fantasy are not the same. It's like asking "how can you possibly play wow, but don't want to go kill biker gang members (defias), or Taliban/ISIS (twilight hammer) with a sword in real life?!"