2016-2017 NBA Thread

[Gandrake]

right? i think so too with KD out on his injury and while westbrook is doing great he has a pretty high usage rate and just isn't winning enough games. plus, historically MVP has only ever gone to players finishing 1st or 2nd in the season

if the rockets don't make it to 2nd seed and he wins it, it will make him the first player to earn MVP on a team finishing 3rd since 1988, which was given to Michael Jordan. Not a bad light to be held in

So it's really too soon to say since there are like 15 more games for them to play but it would be nice to see the man get some recognition when everyone else in the NBA knows how good he is.

[Pendulous]

Basketball is the only sport I follow. I watch as many games as I can because...I like basketball.



I kinda feel bad for Boogie, was really glad to see him get a solid win for once. He went from a team that was losing to a team with another superstar...that is still losing. lol

Well, we actually have something to be excited about. This is the best team since like 2009. I actually watched a regular season game this year! And might watch tonight.

[-aiko-]

Well, we actually have something to be excited about. This is the best team since like 2009. I actually watched a regular season game this year! And might watch tonight.

Right? 4th seed in the West with injuries plaguing us all year and guards who are still developing. Exum is finally starting to show some aggressiveness and had a really great career-high night recently. I feel like I've parroted similar thoughts year after year since we got Snyder but now we finally have the stats to prove it.

[Blueobelisk]

Basketball is the only sport I follow. I watch as many games as I can because...I like basketball.

I know. I can tell the real black people avid basketball sport fans from the fake ones. You're a real one.

Actually I may have said this before, but the real fans of a sport will show interest in it even if their "home" team isn't doing well. Most people only care when they can feel like they're part of the action because their city/country is involved. That's why I roll my eyes when World Cup comes around and everyone acts like they've been die hard soccer fans since birth.

I'm not seeing any good games in the immediate future, though. No TNT Thursday tomorrow. I know they have TNT NBA on Monday now, but I thought that was with a different analyst crew; hmmm.

[Adp]

Lamarcus Aldridge is back playing already. The "Out Indefinitely" headlines were worrying but I guess he's okay. Sucks they lost to Portland. Ugh I need Portland and Denver to go on some massive losing streaks right about now. Who doesn't want to see Steph vs Seth Curry in the 1st round?!

The Clippers are the forgotten team in the West. Not sure what happened to them but they look positively mediocre. That being said, I still think they have a good shot at getting out of the first round even if they are the 5 or 6 seed. I kind of hope they drop to 6 and oust the Rockets right before Harden gets MVP. That would be savory.

If I had to pick a team to root for this year (other than the Mavs) I think it's the Jazz. They have quietly impressed me all season and Hayward is my boo. Spurs are fine too; I can cheer for Kawhi/LA.

Anything except a GSW/Cavs repeat finals please. Please.

[Deleted]

It's going to be Kawhi if the Spurs can get the 1st seed.

[ItachiZaku]

Actually I may have said this before, but the real fans of a sport will show interest in it even if their "home" team isn't doing well.

That was funny a couple years ago when people were learning I was a Mets fan. "Bandwagon much?" "When did you become a Mets fan, like last week?" And then I say over 30 years and then rip off the 86 Mets startling lineups and starting rotation and entire bullpen (that's the shit you know when you are 10 years old lol). Not much to talk about post Piazza years. Same with Ripcity, Clyde and then what, the Mighty Mouse/Sabonis years and not much until Dame was drafted. Lots of fun teams outside of Oregon though.

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Sucks they lost to Portland. Ugh I need Portland and Denver to go on some massive losing streaks right about now. Who doesn't want to see Steph vs Seth Curry in the 1st round?!

No it didn't. Fuck the Curry's. Also, fuck the Balls lmao scrub ass family. Dude needs to take Chuck up on his 1v1 offer.

[Blueobelisk]

College basketball is plaguing TV right now. Zzz. I don't understand how people can go crazy for unprofessionals. Must be because teams are more balanced than the NBA.

[Pendulous]

Just turned the game on. Bad game for Hayward, but being within two against Cleveland at halftime is pretty damn good.

[Gandrake]

The Clippers are the forgotten team in the West. Not sure what happened to them but they look positively mediocre. That being said, I still think they have a good shot at getting out of the first round even if they are the 5 or 6 seed. I kind of hope they drop to 6 and oust the Rockets right before Harden gets MVP. That would be savory.

I try not to put too much stock in what teams are doing until the season is winding up and clinching a position in the playoffs becomes more and more important

because i mean look at the Cavaliers. Or any team Lebron James has lead. they always look like shit during the preseason but when the playoffs come they just pull out all the stops and shit on everything.

Personally I think their weakness is that they depend wayyyyy too much on Chris Paul to succeed. Whenever he's out, they just sit there and take every dick to the face. I mean, why in the fuck is Jamal Crawford competing with anyone for a position on the floor? He doesn't get a lot of recognition but he is a pretty sick guy to be playing sixth man. Coach's son can eat a dick, JCraw too smooth to be playing backseat to that shit.

JJ is pretty good tho so I can get him being a starter. But they really need another guy like Chris Paul on the team because he's always getting hurt when it matters and can't play enough minutes. That... or like, some dudes really need to step up. Blake's not really a guy you want playing point forward. He's worked on his jump shot and does crazy dunks and shit but he's really bad with how he makes turnovers.

[Pendulous]

The preseasons means shit in any sport anyway, it's just a way to sort out the team's roster.

[Gandrake]

It's going to be Kawhi if the Spurs can get the 1st seed.

i dont understand how someone can want to give it to a team to a player who already has an MVP, that you know is good, who is just doing business as usual.

That's why I always have a problem with handing MVPs to players like Curry and Kawhi. They are established teams. It's a Most Valuable Player award, not a Best Team In The League award.

The Spurs wouldn't be nothing without Kawhi. Shit, they're not nothing without Tim Duncan. Everybody on that team steps up. Patty Mills was heroic in the playoffs when Tony Parker was out hurt a few years ago. Shit was intense.

But James Harden? The man gets NO RESPECT. He has gone off the deep end and become nuttier than a squirrel turd playing out of his mind putting up superstar numbers and nobody even knows who the hell the second best player on their team is. Hell, last season he was not even named to an all NBA team in spite of the fact that he literally dragged his injury ridden team into the playoffs and bitch slapped everyone on the way to the conference finals falling just short of being able to compete for a ring.

How do you not get recognition for doing some crazy shit like that, especially with that bitch ass nigga Dwight Howard who wouldn't run pick and roll... Like, I seriously don't get how people just don't see it. I mean, it's not like a Damian Lillard all star snub where the problem is that he's a talent in a position saturated with a sizable selection of extremely talented guards.

He's practically this generation's Kobe/Jordan. But I don't know, maybe that speaks for itself since Kobe didn't get an MVP until 2008.

[Blueobelisk]

i dont understand how someone can want to give it to a team to a player who already has an MVP, that you know is good, who is just doing business as usual.

That's why I always have a problem with handing MVPs to players like Curry and Kawhi. They are established teams. It's a Most Valuable Player award, not a Best Team In The League award.

Ya I also wouldn't mind giving the award to the player that contributes the most to their team winning.*

*But I also recognize that on bad teams, people can inflate numbers because they get more ball touches and coaches don't go out of their way to plan against them.

But James Harden? The man gets NO RESPECT. He has gone off the deep end and become nuttier than a squirrel turd playing out of his mind putting up superstar numbers and nobody even knows who the hell the second best player on their team is. Hell, last season he was not even named to an all NBA team in spite of the fact that he literally dragged his injury ridden team into the playoffs and bitch slapped everyone on the way to the conference finals falling just short of being able to compete for a ring.

How do you not get recognition for doing some crazy shit like that, especially with that bitch ass nigga Dwight Howard who wouldn't run pick and roll... Like, I seriously don't get how people just don't see it. I mean, it's not like a Damian Lillard all star snub where the problem is that he's a talent in a position saturated with a sizable selection of extremely talented guards.

He's practically this generation's Kobe/Jordan. But I don't know, maybe that speaks for itself since Kobe didn't get an MVP until 2008.

He is doing pretty well. But I mean, so is Westbrook. I kinda like Isaiah Thomas too, though.

------

Btw on the subjective of overperforming, Houston clinched playoffs and Brooklyn Nets are first team to definitely not be in playoffs. Lol........Home pride...*waves flags* 13-54. Next worse team is 20-48 Lakers. Kinda pathetic.

I'm rooting for you guys' Jazz team too btw. I haven't watched any games yet but when playoffs come I'm hoping they get to second round. They deserve it.

[Gandrake]

Westbrook is a marvel to witness for sure but if you go by the numbers, the MVP award is generally given to a player whose team finishes 1st or 2nd. He's just not winning enough to be in a realistic discussion about it and maybe I'm a little biased since it doesn't surprise me he can play at that level with the highest usage rate in NBA history

if the award was actually given to a high value player in the league every year it would be different. He'd be in the discussion but I can't say I'd favor him. He's like, the personification of a 2k player. I get that he's trying to do the best he can with what he has and he hasn't done an awful job but I just see him do too much dumb shit. I can understand the strain it puts on a player who is doing literally everything for their team by themselves but this was a hurdle Harden had to jump over as well.

I think what's really fucked up though is that Harden, Durant and Westbrook were all on the same team once. I bet their front office is feeling pretty stupid right about now.

shit would keep me awake at night lmao

[Pendulous]

I made this argument in the NFL this year (and probably every year). Your team's success should not warrant an MVP discussion. If your stats are legendary, but your team goes 10-72, you should still be voted in.

[Blueobelisk]

I think what's really fucked up though is that Harden, Durant and Westbrook were all on the same team once. I bet their front office is feeling pretty stupid right about now.

shit would keep me awake at night lmao

Yeah but they have Serge Ibaka. /s Back then Big 3's were all the rage and having defense seemed important.

Still kinda is, I think without Draymond Green or Klay, GS would be like 2nd seed instead of a top dog.

There was no way for them to keep Harden too though. There were new salary cap rules and OKC were scared. Especially of luxury tax. "omg we're a small hardworking lovable midwest town. we cant afford that tax!" Meanwhile both NY teams would have spent double whatever was necessary to keep that roster. (I don't think LA would have since Kobe was on exit soon.)

Westbrook is a marvel to witness for sure but if you go by the numbers, the MVP award is generally given to a player whose team finishes 1st or 2nd. He's just not winning enough to be in a realistic discussion about it and maybe I'm a little biased since it doesn't surprise me he can play at that level with the highest usage rate in NBA history

if the award was actually given to a high value player in the league every year it would be different. He'd be in the discussion but I can't say I'd favor him. He's like, the personification of a 2k player. I get that he's trying to do the best he can with what he has and he hasn't done an awful job but I just see him do too much dumb shit. I can understand the strain it puts on a player who is doing literally everything for their team by themselves but this was a hurdle Harden had to jump over as well.

I think Westbrook is a better player, but Harden is doing well with what he has.

But Houston front office is like the best front office in my opinion. Those guys make moves, so I don't think Harden is having as hard a time as Westbrook getting team success, since I think his team is well built. It's not star packed but I think it's legit. Legit enough that he makes it work. Which is still impressive for him to do.

I made this argument in the NFL this year (and probably every year). Your team's success should not warrant an MVP discussion. If your stats are legendary, but your team goes 10-72, you should still be voted in.

Not really, I think the NFL is different in that aspect since a talented player REALLY shines since there are so many others on the field and it's a little harder to be consistent. NFL also has less games that are more important, so it's easier for each game to be taken seriously. Especially since each team is a decent contender for players. NBA, I could pick you out 4 teams, one of which will definitely will the championship, before the preseason even gets played.

All those differences aside, I still think an MVP has to at least get their team to the playoffs. Or at least be right under the serious contender teams. It's about bringing a lackluster team up above the rest of the crowd, especially since most teams already don't even try to make the playoffs. Or it's "whatever" if they do.

Like, the MVP can't just be a statistical monster or look good on court. Basketball is about winning games. That's the goal. I get that someone may get put with scrubs, but at the end of the day, everyone on the court is a professional basketball player, they're fucking 6 feet tall, and well coached. If you're the MVP, you'll make due to at least be somewhat competitive.

[Adp]

Harden has some major flaws as a player I think. First of all, he just doesn't play defense. You can show him 2 moves and he'll give up because in his mind he'll just spot you and pull up for 3 on the next possession. That can work in the regular season but not in the playoffs where every possession matters. Second, his assist to turnover ratio is 1.94. While he averages 11.3 assists per game that means he also averages nearly 6 turnovers a game. That's just awful (worst in the league even above Westbrook!). Third, for however many 3s he's chunked up this season he shoots it at 35% which isn't really that great. If you look at the +/-, Patrick Beverly is actually the best player on the floor for them, not Harden.

I guarantee you that if Harden didn't get the calls he so clearly doesn't deserve he would be about as popular and well known as Harrison Barnes. Harden is a manufactured star. That's why he doesn't get respect.

[Deleted]

I made this argument in the NFL this year (and probably every year). Your team's success should not warrant an MVP discussion. If your stats are legendary, but your team goes 10-72, you should still be voted in.

Absolutely not. That's stat padding and doesn't result in the only relevant metric in sports: wins.

If you average 30/10/10 on a lottery team, then you're by no means the Most Valuable Player in the league. If you cannot influence your team results in the win column with those stats, then you're a zero impact player and not valuable at all. Since you only play with 5 players individual impact is much more tangible than in the NFL or in football. Players can literally take over games on their own (Lebron against the Pistons in 2007).
As such your MVP candidacy can be reasonably linked to team success, provided you are the driving force behind the success of your team, as evidenced in win shares or VORP metrics.

If you can't make the playoffs, like Blueobelisk said, then you have no place in the MVP discussions. Basketball isn't about looking good on the court but losing every night.

[Gandrake]

Harden has some major flaws as a player I think. First of all, he just doesn't play defense. You can show him 2 moves and he'll give up because in his mind he'll just spot you and pull up for 3 on the next possession.

well maybe you don't remember but they played the warriors in the conference finals in 2015

Second, his assist to turnover ratio is 1.94. While he averages 11.3 assists per game that means he also averages nearly 6 turnovers a game. That's just awful (worst in the league even above Westbrook!).

And yet, their TOV is really not too different from Golden State but I guess nobody really wanna talk about that.

So much of the offense flows through Harden and Westbrook that they are picking up turnovers that would have otherwise been made in typical figures by teammates and the only other guard at the 1 out there playing as many minutes as them is John Wall. Defensive pressure is going to show on an individual with a usage rate that high.

I mean, shit. I love the Clippers - they have low turnovers.... But where they at tho? They choke in the playoffs every year and blew a 3-0 lead to the Rockets and would have lost to the Warriors anyway even if they had beaten them because they have never won against them. At least the Rockets pulled 1 up on them, and that was with Dwight Howard <___<

I think Westbrook is a better player, but Harden is doing well with what he has.

well when you're that good it's like comparing 2 similar cars. it's not a secret that russell is a great player but i just feel like harden is way better at playing mind games with people because of his range and proficiency. I also feel like he's just more consistent in general.

All those differences aside, I still think an MVP has to at least get their team to the playoffs. Or at least be right under the serious contender teams. It's about bringing a lackluster team up above the rest of the crowd, especially since most teams already don't even try to make the playoffs. Or it's "whatever" if they do.

can't argue too much there

it would be pretty dumb if i got on 2k and lebron was getting mvp every year just because he was on the 76ers (this happened to me in 2k14 and he got injured right before the championship game XD)

[Blueobelisk]

Tonight on TNT Monday 8 PM: GSW @ OKC. Again. I guess I can try to watch.

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I tuned in at the second quarter for a minute and got bored and stopped watching. GS won, obviously.

Your Utah team lost to Indiana last night :/

I really don't see any good games until Sunday soooooooo. Afk.