GM needs help as an Outlaw Rogue

[Goge]

i don't want to be the condescending asshole,

but if you plan to step into mythic NH, shouldn't he just go assassination. I thought that was the superior raid spec for rogues.

[Deleted]

i don't want to be the condescending asshole,

but if you plan to step into mythic NH, shouldn't he just go assassination. I thought that was the superior raid spec for rogues.

It is, in most cases, especially without the right legendaries. Assa is just easier to right than Outlaw, and has higher ST DPS, which is usually what is most notable.

[Dralas]

Nah you're correct. Honestly it's what I hinted at, but we're not a hardcore guild. We usually encourage players to play what they like the most, so I'm trying my best to help get the most that we can out of that spec. I leveled up an outlaw rogue and it's a ton of fun, though the RNG is pretty terrible to deal with.

[Xanatu]

It is, in most cases, especially without the right legendaries. Assa is just easier to right than Outlaw, and has higher ST DPS, which is usually what is most notable.

That's my main problem with assassination, or rather with not playing it and being Outlaw instead. It's so fucking easy to play it pretty well. I'd never really played it prior to 2 weeks ago and I feel like I'm already at about 90% efficiency with it. It's slow, the decisions are pretty obvious, and after a week of raiding you get a feel for weird CD alignments. Outlaw is frantic, requires luck, practice, luck, legendaries, perfect energy management, split-second decision making, and then more luck. And you do 50-100k dps in basically the same gear.

[Deleted]

Nah you're correct. Honestly it's what I hinted at, but we're not a hardcore guild. We usually encourage players to play what they like the most, so I'm trying my best to help get the most that we can out of that spec. I leveled up an outlaw rogue and it's a ton of fun, though the RNG is pretty terrible to deal with.

Well mythic beyond the first 3 bosses is pretty srs bsns this tier, so you may find yourself struggling a lot if you don't want to enforce playing the stronger specs, but hey, all the power to you. That said, only a handful of rogues player outlaw in mythic content, for obvious reasons - Mind you I play Outlaw, so I'm not just here to bash Outlaw, but you need a real handle on the spec to even remain relevant, and sometimes you will just do bad dps with nothing to do about it. Discourages a lot of people.

[Dralas]

That really is unfortunate that Outlaw would be so punished for nothing but RNG. Does anyone know if Blizzard plans on changing any mechanics to help with this? I know in 7.2 the new Adrenaline talent may help out, but that seems like a band-aid and not really a solution.

[Katchii]

He only has 3 legendaries? jesus. Are you sure the reason for his lower dps isn't lack of traits or something? 3 legendaries would imply a very minimal time investment, so he can't except super good dps then

Did he re-roll to Outlaw recently?

This quote here makes me glad I don't raid in WoW anymore. Suggesting that ONLY having 3 legendaries is some kind of measure of how seriously someone plays or dedicated the player is when getting them is RNG.

I understand the sentiment, and agree somewhat with the DPS comment related to it, I'm simply commenting that I'm glad I don't participate in the content that gets this kind of scrutiny.

That said, I know Outlaw Rogues are incredibly RNG dependent whereas Assassination is not. If your GM is that worried about performance he eithe rneeds to just get better at manging his RNG with RtB or switch to Assassination. I'd personally just switch to Assassination and use Outlaw when doing other stuff. Much easier thing to deal with IMO. But that's me.

Good luck to the OP and their GM.

[ymirsson]

This quote here makes me glad I don't raid in WoW anymore. Suggesting that ONLY having 3 legendaries is some kind of measure of how seriously someone plays or dedicated the player is when getting them is RNG.

But it IS. More time = more legendaries. It's that simple. But that's not bad. Concluding that people who dedicate less time or energy are worse players or worse persons even, that would be bad.

[Deleted]

This quote here makes me glad I don't raid in WoW anymore. Suggesting that ONLY having 3 legendaries is some kind of measure of how seriously someone plays or dedicated the player is when getting them is RNG.

I understand the sentiment, and agree somewhat with the DPS comment related to it, I'm simply commenting that I'm glad I don't participate in the content that gets this kind of scrutiny.

But that IS low, no matter what measurement you're using :x

If he is the GM of a guild that raids mythic, I was just baffled that he only had 3 - I have a super-casual friend whom has 4, and he isn't even trying, so 3 is actually very, really, low. Nobody out there can claim dedication and only have 3 legendaries, no matter how unlucky you are. Sure, if you show up for 100% of all raids, you are "dedicated" to your guild, but not dedicated to your character progression. The time requirement this xpac to be "dedicated" is just so much bigger than it has ever been before. Sucks.

At some point getting them isn't much RNG anymore - Actually I fairly often see a couple of "legendary days" in my guild where quite a few people will all get a new legendary within a short amount of time, because of the "bad luck protection" building up over time.

Also, the more you play, the more chances to get them, the more you will have. So even if its RNG, more time spent will still inevitable result in more legendaries gained. Most people will get 4-5 legendaries just on their path to one weapon at 54 traits, assuming you did raids and dungeons to get there.

Such a shame about the state of legendaries. The raids themselves are fine =/

[Deleted]

He can always play with SnD, it's easier and you kinda always parse in the 60-90% range (depend on your legendaries and some luck). TB alone ruins the spec with RtB (and yeah, don't go for TB and 3 buff, TB alone is shit to build combo point)

[Mascotte]

He can always play with SnD, it's easier and you kinda always parse in the 60-90% range (depend on your legendaries and some luck). TB alone ruins the spec with RtB (and yeah, don't go for TB and 3 buff, TB alone is shit to build combo point)

Problem with SnD is you are more stable since you don't bottom out when rolling horrible but you never top either since you never hit a good 3+ or 6roll.
If you want stable dps you should spec Sin rather then SnD, SnD is just an nonrng band-aid for a flawed spec.

Edit;

Did he delete his char or something?
Wanted to check his activity/kills/mythics but http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cidbath/simple keeps giving the Oops error and if i search the guild he shows as a GM with 0 Achievement Points..

[Dralas]

Nah he didn't. Think the wow armory is just shitting the bed, but no he did not delete his toon, loves his rogue too much to do that.

[Deleted]

Problem with SnD is you are more stable since you don't bottom out when rolling horrible but you never top either since you never hit a good 3+ or 6roll.
If you want stable dps you should spec Sin rather then SnD, SnD is just an nonrng band-aid for a flawed spec.

If with 6 rolls you don't get or struggle to get close to top DPS it's not really better. I personnally prefer playing with SnD for my raid than having the frustration of wasting time rerolling buff and having inconsistent DPS, even if I love RtB concept (some buff/combo are really fun), it's not worth the struggle for me.

[elfporn]

Nah he didn't. Think the wow armory is just shitting the bed, but no he did not delete his toon, loves his rogue too much to do that.

You might be able to bring up sub - if he can like that, he will do better more consistently than he is with outlaw. Sub is in a decent place atm(though behind ass in pure ST).

The one good thing he has going for him in regards to swapping to another spec is that he has so few legendaries, he's likely due for another one quite soon.

Atleast he's not had 5 spec neutral legendaries like me only good thing to come of that is shoulders.

[Deleted]

Another great example of someone linking logs with absolute basic errors, really should carefully and repeatedly read a good guide, then practicing a lot, instead of opening this kind of thread. Person in the logs is pretty much doing things that show he didnt read (or didn´t retain anything) any guide.

Also yeah, 3 legendaries is what you get after about a months time, so considering we are now 7 months into legion, this is either someone who just logs for raids or is a very fresh reroll.

[Raiz]

But it IS. More time = more legendaries. It's that simple. But that's not bad. Concluding that people who dedicate less time or energy are worse players or worse persons even, that would be bad.

But that IS low, no matter what measurement you're using :x

If he is the GM of a guild that raids mythic, I was just baffled that he only had 3 - I have a super-casual friend whom has 4, and he isn't even trying, so 3 is actually very, really, low. Nobody out there can claim dedication and only have 3 legendaries, no matter how unlucky you are. Sure, if you show up for 100% of all raids, you are "dedicated" to your guild, but not dedicated to your character progression. The time requirement this xpac to be "dedicated" is just so much bigger than it has ever been before. Sucks.

At some point getting them isn't much RNG anymore - Actually I fairly often see a couple of "legendary days" in my guild where quite a few people will all get a new legendary within a short amount of time, because of the "bad luck protection" building up over time.

Also, the more you play, the more chances to get them, the more you will have. So even if its RNG, more time spent will still inevitable result in more legendaries gained. Most people will get 4-5 legendaries just on their path to one weapon at 54 traits, assuming you did raids and dungeons to get there.

Such a shame about the state of legendaries. The raids themselves are fine =/

You guys ever thought about alts ? My main has "only" 3 legendaries. He doesn't even has full traits yet. Not to mention if he's the GM, it's perfectly possible he's farming for stuff (food, potions, etc) for the guild, thus lowering his chances of getting legendaries from any various contents. I'd suggest you to think twice before saying such statements.

For the record I have a combined of 62 days /played across all my alt with 30d with my main. Yes 30days and only 3 legendaries. Blame that on my luck or whatever.

[ymirsson]

You guys ever thought about alts ? My main has "only" 3 legendaries. He doesn't even has full traits yet. Not to mention if he's the GM, it's perfectly possible he's farming for stuff (food, potions, etc) for the guild, thus lowering his chances of getting legendaries from any various contents. I'd suggest you to think twice before saying such statements.

For the record I have a combined of 62 days /played across all my alt with 30d with my main. Yes 30days and only 3 legendaries. Blame that on my luck or whatever.

Whatever makes you happy is valid. But a main would be more effective with more invested time, as he would have more legendaries in average.
Why do you need to feel insulted by a simple statement?

Nobody will say you are not allowed to play without any equipment at all for instance, but everyone will tell you that you are more effective if you you do, and they will be correct.

[Raiz]

Whatever makes you happy is valid. But a main would be more effective with more invested time, as he would have more legendaries in average.
Why do you need to feel insulted by a simple statement?

Nobody will say you are not allowed to play without any equipment at all for instance, but everyone will tell you that you are more effective if you you do, and they will be correct.

Obviously, the more time you play, the more legendaries you'll get. Assuming you do the raid / m+ / WQs contents. Otherwise you won't get anything afaik. I don't really feel insulted for that matter, I'm just saying that it's perfectly possible to play more than any of you and having 0 legendary. I'm exagerating because ppl need to know having a low legendary counts isn't a measurement of the time invested on the character.

Me ? I spend worth 50% of the time theorycrafting on my own chars. Yet some of my alts only have 1 legendary. Does that mean I don't know how to play them ? Not necessarily.

I'm just saying, it's undeniable that if I tell the PuG that my character is my 5th tank, I'd have more chance of getting included in that group than simply showing them that I have only 1 legendary.

You're perfectly right about that part :

Concluding that people who dedicate less time or energy are worse players or worse persons even, that would be bad.

Sadly, that's how it works and happens far more often than you'd think.

[ymirsson]

I'm exagerating because ppl need to know having a low legendary counts isn't a measurement of the time invested on the character.

And that's where you're wrong. Unless you invested next to nothing, you WILL have legendaries. All my alts at 110 have legendaries.
People simply like to conclude that you are not helpful to the group if you did not invest all your free time into the character you just now want to run with this PuG.

[Mask]

He only has 3 legendaries? jesus. Are you sure the reason for his lower dps isn't lack of traits or something? 3 legendaries would imply a very minimal time investment, so he can't except super good dps then

Did he re-roll to Outlaw recently?

I dunno, I'm at 51 traits on my main spec, and 35 traits on both off-specs. Have 3 legendaries, all of them general ones (legs, ring, and trinket). *shrug*