Appalling double standards over here :(

[Machismo]

Let's be honest, Israel is seen by many as an oppressive, occupying government. They practice their own version of apartheid on many of the inhabitants.

[Acidbaron]

The UN resolutions make it absolutely legal, no matter what you say now in your ignorance. Also, maybe learn a bit of the previous history of the region, in which the land was constantly conquered and reconquered by various states, and by 1948 it hardly belonged to anyone as such, it was a strongly contested territory.

I don't even know why I'm bothering explaining this. You could learn all this by just reading a Wiki summary.

Because it was constantly contested, that in your eyes makes it right. So we could right now go in and occupy let's say Syria and give those to the roman gypsies and that would be right, that's your reasoning.

It's legal in the same sense that if Belgium went and retook Congo and that's me ignoring all the terrorists attack that took place to setup that 'legal' take over.

[May90]

Because it was constantly contested, that in your eyes makes it right. So we could right now go in and occupy let's say Syria and give those to the roman gypsies and that would be right, that's your reasoning.

It's legal in the same sense that if Belgium went and retook Congo and that's me ignoring all the terrorists attack that took place to setup that 'legal' take over.

No, that's your inability to understand the complexity of the situation. I'm not talking about what is "right", I'm talking about the fact that "the land grab" claim stems from ignorance about the history. And UN resolution makes it legal, that's how the international law works, no matter how you twist it.

Have any of you actually been in one of those countries Israeli citizens have to keep in mind daily? Travel some time to Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Palestine. You'll learn a great many things you are not aware of, sitting in comfy chairs in a safe Western country. You don't have to deal with dozens millions in vicinity who publicly advocate for murdering you, train armies able to do just that and fund terrorists doing just that.

[XDurionX]

In this day and age.

There are enough Christians that are against abortion, homo- and transphobe, deny evolution, force "intelligent design" on their schools. Christians are "holding back advances" every single day.

[Acidbaron]

No, that's your inability to understand the complexity of the situation. I'm not talking about what is "right", I'm talking about the fact that "the land grab" claim stems from ignorance about the history. And UN resolution makes it legal, that's how the international law works, no matter how you twist it.

Have any of you actually been in one of those countries Israeli citizens have to keep in mind daily? Travel some time to Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Palestine. You'll learn a great many things you are not aware of, sitting in comfy chairs in a safe Western country. You don't have to deal with dozens millions in vicinity who publicly advocate for murdering you, train armies able to do just that and fund terrorists doing just that.

I understand the situation and again you keep talking about the why it happened. As i said i find it a mistake and it is a land grab. At best it was occupied by the UK and forced from their hands due to terrorist attacks. I guess for you that's a peaceful transition of land, for me it isn't.

The second paragraph is you trying to change the subject towards the enemies of israel for some reason and making further assumptions as to what i know from that region.

[Rhaide]

You know people have been saying this since the dawn of time?

Something tells me that medieval western europe didn't do a lot of complaining about the sociological demonization of cis white male christians in their own territories. I don't know if you haven't thought your point out very much or if you don't understand history.

- - - Updated - - -

There are enough Christians that are against abortion, homo- and transphobe, deny evolution, force "intelligent design" on their schools. Christians are "holding back advances" every single day.

Replace Christians with Immigrants and you're a bigot.



Every group has its shitty members, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Intolerance against a group not wholly represented by its worst examples is evil in purest form.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not making a point about immigration, I'm pro immigration. Just stating an example.

- - - Updated - - -

You asked for an example, didn't specify a time period. Also, still relevant because the question was how the christian extremism held back the modern world, and the crusades set advancement back immeasurably.

Religion was one of the least influencing factors of the Crusades (With only one even being REASONABLY religion-oriented). Religion was an excuse, if you don't understand that, you shouldn't be using the Crusades as a point.

[XDurionX]

Replace Christians with Immigrants and you're a bigot.

.

These topics are not related at all. And did i say "all Christians"? I didn't.

[Deleted]

London's tragic lone wolf terrorist attack was rightly widely condemned all across the world this week. Our prayers and thoughts go to the victims of that senseless violence. However I noticed the exact same type of attacks carried out in Israel and the response completely different - instead the IDF soldier who shot the gunman was criticised and focused on for excessive force, while the police who took down the london terrorist was applauded.

It seems when islamic terrorist in Israel perpetuate violent acts its as if they are regarded as freedom fighters, but when the same is done in western countries everyone is appalled and condemns. It looks like its one standard for Israel, and another for us. This smacks of hypocritical behvaiour by the press - and makes me wonder...wth is going on in the world. Also incredible how propaganda has spun evil and terror to such an extent that in one country, the international community condemns a free nation for defending its population from murderous crazies and in an other they applaud.

Look how many phone calls from heads of state we got after the attack, and yet where is our empathy when innocents are killed by crazies in Israel where is the support. This is really showing us where our hearts truly lie. If you really cared about life and were genuinely seeking after good, you would be as passionate in your support of Israel after an attack as you were of Britain, and the focus would always be condemning towards the terrorist , not neutrality if they're palestinian but condmentation if its a muslim in the west.

This really is troubling - makes me wonder how genuine these people are. As for the mainstream media, they lost my respect a long time ago. I'm just seeing double standards all over especially in such terrible events.

There are a lot more nazis than it appears. For many people, dead Jews do not matter.

(but dead muslims do... remember: 450 out of 452 suicide attacks were done by muslims. Hypocrisy at it's best.)

[Rhaide]

These topics are not related at all. And did i say "all Christians"? I didn't.

Then why bother making the point? They were also men and women right? Why didn't you say men and women?

You made it a point to say Christians, so I called you on your decision.

[May90]

I understand the situation and again you keep talking about the why it happened. As i said i find it a mistake and it is a land grab. At best it was occupied by the UK and forced from their hands due to terrorist attacks. I guess for you that's a peaceful transition of land, for me it isn't.

The second paragraph is you trying to change the subject towards the enemies of israel for some reason and making further assumptions as to what i know from that region.

Suppose a group of people is stranded on an iceberg. They've been drifting for many months, many of them dying on the way. All the bypassing ships refused to take them in. Finally, they drifted all the way to Alaska. They land on the shore, tired, cold and hungry. They ask the Alaskan government to help them, and the government shows them a middle finger: "Not our problem. You are illegals, GTFO". They send requests to other governments to take them in, but everyone refuses.
"Well, no one wants to take us in. The only choice we have is to stay here."
"You can't, you are illegals."
"We physically don't have other options! We are staying."
"You, bastards... Our holy land... We will kill you!"
The rest of the world: "Are you insane? We acknowledge their right to this land and fully support them in their righteous cause of survival."
...
70 years later on MMO Champ, commentators: "This was a ruthless and illegal land grab. These people's government is illegitimate".


That's about what your reasoning looks like. And no, the second paragraph isn't changing the subject. Given that in Arabic world Jews were hardly seen differently from how Nazis saw them, imagine if they weren't given a state and left in Arabic states to themselves... Somehow, I guess, you see it preferable for Jews to be slaughtered by nationalistic anti-semitic mobs, than for them to have their own state and not bother anyone who doesn't bother them.

[XDurionX]

Then why bother making the point? They were also men and women right? Why didn't you say men and women?

You made it a point to say Christians, so I called you on your decision.

You haven't read the conversation i was referring too at all, and it shows. Plus i said "enough Christians", you didn't even read the posting you cited.

[Mifuyne]

B-but guys, Israel is the victim.. :'(

[Deleted]

Err... That guy was killed by Romans, not by Jews.

I thought Mel Gibson blamed the jews! He is like rich and stuff and can't be wrong !

[Allybeboba]

The world is becoming pussyfied. PC taken to the extreme. SJWs as fanatical as Islamic terrorist. Feminists and feminazis everywhere. While the vilifying of the "cis white male Christian scum" is becoming more and more apparent.

Only certain parts and certain people are becoming "pussyfied" my friend.

[Spicymemer]

Predominantly white suburbs have less crime and higher HDI than predominantly ethnic ones, in the same country in the same city.

So either culture or religion is to blame.

[Acidbaron]

Suppose a group of people is stranded on an iceberg. They've been drifting for many months, many of them dying on the way. All the bypassing ships refused to take them in. Finally, they drifted all the way to Alaska. They land on the shore, tired, cold and hungry. They ask the Alaskan government to help them, and the government shows them a middle finger: "Not our problem. You are illegals, GTFO". They send requests to other governments to take them in, but everyone refuses.
"Well, no one wants to take us in. The only choice we have is to stay here."
"You can't, you are illegals."
"We physically don't have other options! We are staying."
"You, bastards... Our holy land... We will kill you!"
The rest of the world: "Are you insane? We acknowledge their right to this land and fully support them in their righteous cause of survival."
...
70 years later on MMO Champ, commentators: "This was a ruthless and illegal land grab. These people's government is illegitimate".


That's about what your reasoning looks like. And no, the second paragraph isn't changing the subject. Given that in Arabic world Jews were hardly seen differently from how Nazis saw them, imagine if they weren't given a state and left in Arabic states to themselves... Somehow, I guess, you see it preferable for Jews to be slaughtered by nationalistic anti-semitic mobs, than for them to have their own state and not bother anyone who doesn't bother them.

This is getting old again you speak of the why and again you come up with assumptions, even better you make the assumption that in my mind the right alternative was to let them all die off. Sorry to break it to you but i don't advocate for mass murder regardless how many of you attempt to insinuate that due to me disagreeing with Israel actions. The right answer would have been to deal with the immigrants the same way we dealt with the other immigrants in WW2 and not export the problem elsewhere and hope everything would be fine there or at least away from us, that is the mistake i refer to. We took the easy option out, something Politics in the west appears to be good at, making bad calls in the middle east.

The land was occupied, the land was forced through acts of terror from the illegitimate owner, since that what colonies are in my opinion.


Also not bother anyone who doesn't bother them? I hope you mean in terms of military actions and even there it's questionable to see what force is used including the type of weapons also. Weapons that are forbidden and highly frowned upon by the international community, Weapons other nations would have to go to the haque to, to justify using them and where those in command would probably be facing jail time. But to be more specific the behavior of those who occupy land in illegal settlement and how they act towards other minded, especially those with strong religious believes that believe all none jews are inferior. They do anything but bother no one or do you wish to claim that there's no apartheid present in Israel?


Also i would appreciate it if you stopped hinting i'm an antisemite, it's tiresome and brings this chat to the level of mudslinging. I can very much disagree with Israel and not hate jews or be a supporter of the military wing of hamas and other groups.

[Deleted]

The same thing happened back when the Chalie Hebdo attack happened. Around the same time Boko Haram committed the Baga massacre resulting in at least 150 casulties.

The problem is that there is nothing to gain for politicians or media to gain for commenting on something like the Baga massacre, since most people do not care what happens in some remote african country; they care about what can be conceived to happen where they live. There is no money in a story like that. The funny thing is that the surviving Charlie Hebdo cartoonists knew this, and said that, as well as the caroonists who were killed would have said, the apparent solidarity and support they received from the leaders of the western world were not for the sake of the victims, but rather for their own self interests.

[May90]

This is getting old again you speak of the why and again you come up with assumptions, even better you make the assumption that in my mind the right alternative was to let them all die off. Sorry to break it to you but i don't advocate for mass murder regardless how many of you attempt to insinuate that due to me disagreeing with Israel actions. The right answer would have been to deal with the immigrants the same way we dealt with the other immigrants in WW2 and not export the problem elsewhere and hope everything would be fine there or at least away from us, that is the mistake i refer to. We took the easy option out, something Politics in the west appears to be good at, making bad calls in the middle east.

The land was occupied, the land was forced through acts of terror from the illegitimate owner, since that what colonies are in my opinion.


Also not bother anyone who doesn't bother them? I hope you mean in terms of military actions and even there it's questionable to see what force is used including the type of weapons also. Weapons that are forbidden and highly frowned upon by the international community, Weapons other nations would have to go to the haque to, to justify using them and where those in command would probably be facing jail time. But to be more specific the behavior of those who occupy land in illegal settlement and how they act towards other minded, especially those with strong religious believes that believe all none jews are inferior. They do anything but bother no one or do you wish to claim that there's no apartheid present in Israel?


Also i would appreciate it if you stopped hinting i'm an antisemite, it's tiresome and brings this chat to the level of mudslinging. I can very much disagree with Israel and not hate jews or be a supporter of the military wing of hamas and other groups.

So, when every single nation refused to take in hordes of refugees, your answer is... what? What should the people have done?

And yes, not all actions of Israel were just, there were acts of terrorism, illegal weapons, torture, etc. I'd like to find any country that has never done anything internationally illegal, really. That is a separate subject, it has nothing to do with the right of Israel to exist.

I've never hinted you were antisemite. I just think that in this matter scoring politically and stroking your personal biases is more important for you than human lives.

[Acidbaron]

Predominantly white suburbs have less crime and higher HDI than predominantly ethnic ones, in the same country in the same city.

So either culture or religion is to blame.

Yes, you can aim your arrows of the blame game at that or you could accept that our immigration politics failed that socio economic causes further increases this problem and that both parties that being migrants and our politics and perhaps even our behavior however rather normal or better put rather human to reject those different is the grand sum of it.

When those people worked in our mines, we didn't really care if they spoke our language or integrated and accept our values of the west since we also put them in places all together ideally away from locals, it wasn't even the intend that they stayed here. They were for all matters and purposes cheap labor that's all and the politics around that remained in that mindset for a long time till it actually became a problem, ignored it some more and now we have the 3rd and 4th generation really causing issues, Since those that came over and started working here weren't the well educated either those remained in their country and worked there, so the value of what an education brings is also lost on them what brings forth another myriad of issues.

If culture and religion are to blame, why do people from cities in those nations are a whole lot more modern and don't have those issues there? Or why do you think Erdogan and consorts is trying to recruit people to vote for him in nations abroad? Because he can't sell his scheme to majority of the nation who is more educated.

[Mehrunes]

Do you people, like, never even glance at history before making posts like this? "Land grab"? Come on, man. You do realize that Israel as a state was formed because no one wanted to take in millions of refugees at the time, so they decided to make a place for them in the middle of nowhere in a rocky desert, which historically made more sense than any other location? Arabic nations got pissed because 0.1% of their precious land was given to people no one (including them) wanted to see within their borders, Israeli had to fight back - and now the Israeli are the evil ones... Sure!

If they wanted a desert, Nevada would have been a good choice. An ocean away from the people that wish them harm. And none of the parts in bold negate the premise. Imagine that, nations dislike their land being taken away, no matter what amount. And 2000 years old historical justification is pure nonsense. Let's find some modern day descendants of Phoenicians and remove Lebanon from the map so we can give it to them. It's just another 0.1% and that 2000 years old "claim" is going to be totes relevant in politics. And let's give millions of Syrian refugees Sicily or Granada. Also, Jewish people "encouraged" the decision to create Israel with quite a bit of terrorism of their own, so they weren't exactly angels at the time. And they aren't now. Because as legal as Israel is, their current actions are not. And they are the epitome of a land grab. Because, to quote you:

that's how the international law works, no matter how you twist it.

Have any of you actually been in one of those countries Israeli citizens have to keep in mind daily? Travel some time to Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Palestine. You'll learn a great many things you are not aware of, sitting in comfy chairs in a safe Western country. You don't have to deal with dozens millions in vicinity who publicly advocate for murdering you, train armies able to do just that and fund terrorists doing just that.

Meanwhile Israel responses result in at least 100:1 casualty ratio for the Arabs, with most of the Arab casualties being civilians. They sometimes destroy UN outposts too, just for the lols (and then wonder why the UN does not like them). And when it comes to relations with Iran in particular, Israel doesn't exactly hold the moral high ground. Hell, they are a threat to regional stability by constantly trying to undermine the nuclear deal US made.

Suppose a group of people is stranded on an iceberg. They've been drifting for many months, many of them dying on the way. All the bypassing ships refused to take them in. Finally, they drifted all the way to Alaska. They land on the shore, tired, cold and hungry. They ask the Alaskan government to help them, and the government shows them a middle finger: "Not our problem. You are illegals, GTFO". They send requests to other governments to take them in, but everyone refuses.
"Well, no one wants to take us in. The only choice we have is to stay here."
"You can't, you are illegals."
"We physically don't have other options! We are staying."
"You, bastards... Our holy land... We will kill you!"
The rest of the world: "Are you insane? We acknowledge their right to this land and fully support them in their righteous cause of survival."
...
70 years later on MMO Champ, commentators: "This was a ruthless and illegal land grab. These people's government is illegitimate".

From legal perspective it had fuck all to do with them them being refugees and when misrepresented the way you just did, people defending their land are totally in the right. No one has a right to someone else's land on the grounds of not having their own and not being accepted anywhere else. Should we give Florida to Syrians because they aren't given land anywhere else?