I keep hearing republican politicians say

[ProfessorTjc]

What, exactly, would have happened in these past nine weeks if Hillary had been president instead of Trump?

Would she be passive-aggressively whining at people on twitter?

Would she have had tried to pass unilateral Muslim bans only to have them turned down?

Would she have had the judicial branch give her the middle finger?

Would she have brought millions of Americans to the verge of losing healthcare only to have her own party split and fragment underneath?

Would she be embroiled in more and more of her underlings being found to have had ties to Russia?

Because I don't think any of those things would have happened.



Like, tell me, exactly, what Hillary would have been screwing up? What part of her policy would have caused the utter grease fire that is the current Trump administration?

BUT THE EMAILS!!!! lol

[BrerBear]

I do not think hardly any feel he is worse than Hillary would have been. Now in 4 years if the Democrats can put up a good candidate ( Not Warren:P ) they may change sides.

Well, that's weird.
Trump's poll numbers which are well below the percentage that elected him two months in seem to suggest otherwise.

Buyers' remorse.

[Ghostpanther]

Well, that's weird.
Trump's poll numbers which are well below the percentage that elected him two months in seem to suggest otherwise.

Buyers' remorse.

Poll numbers can vary. You do know Obama's dipped pretty low too at times? And Bush's last few months was even lower than Trump's is now. Granted it is historically low now this early in. But that is just it. It is not what his poll numbers now are, but what they will be the last year he is in office.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I will try to keep this short. She would carry on a lot of Obama's agenda and if you disapprove of Obama's agenda, then that is a good enough reason.

She wouldn't have tried to replace Obamacare with something even worse. Something that not even the Republican Party could get behind.

[Ghostpanther]

She wouldn't have tried to replace Obamacare with something even worse. Something that not even the Republican Party could get behind.

She would not have even tried. She liked it because she felt it was popular with her supporters.

[Ghostpanther]

What are you talking about?

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Yeah, the green party is fucking stupid. what does that have to do with Clinton and Obama?

Radical environmentalist is another term. Some feel this is part of Obama's agenda and of course Hillary was not going to try to dismantle his actions. After all she even said she would put a lot of coal miners out of work. :P

[Ghostpanther]

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For the most part it is, since it literally saved lives. Were their issues with it? Yes. Did democrats try to fix it? Yes. Did republicans try to fix it? No, they just cock blocked everything the democrats tried to change to improve it.

It is also causing many issues for a lot of people who can ether not afford the premiums increases or the huge deductibles. And you mean like the democrats are doing now with anything Trump wants to get done?

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When did she say that? Regardless, focusing on cleaner energy isn't exactly a radical idea.

Banning meat consumption because of cows contributing to global warming would be a radical idea.

It was a during one of her campaign rallies I think. Google it if you are really interested. I saw the video. She said it clearly. Having cleaner coal of course is a goal we should thrive for, but to radically cut down on coal production is not the smart thing to do for the economy.

[LaserSharkDFB]

It is also causing many issues for a lot of people who can ether not afford the premiums increases or the huge deductibles. And you mean like the democrats are doing now with anything Trump wants to get done?

Pretty sure GP still has me on ignore, but: the time before the ACA caused many issues for a lot of people who couldn't get insurance at all. Also the premiums did not increase because of Obamacare, which actually reduced the rate of increase. The ACA was a net benefit, which is part of why the attempt to scrap it failed so explosively. And it wasn't the Democrats who put Trumpcare in the trash can.

[Ragedaug]

He defeated Hillary and replaced Obama. That alone is a service to the country.

This is what pisses me off a little bit about the left. All they had to do to ensure Trump doesn't win the White House is not run Hillary against him. Then after they run arguably the worst political candidate in history, they whine and moan that the 2nd worst candidate wins.

Now the Republicans don't get a pass on this either. They were dumb enough to be fooled by him and they nominated him in the first place. But that said, the people whining about him are the people who nominated Clinton...so when you want to look at someone to be mad at, look in the mirror.

[BrerBear]

Poll numbers can vary. You do know Obama's dipped pretty low too at times?

Obama's never got as low in 8 years as Trump's are 2 months in.
So, there's that.

[LaserSharkDFB]

It was a during one of her campaign rallies I think. Google it if you are really interested. I saw the video. She said it clearly. Having cleaner coal of course is a goal we should thrive for, but to radically cut down on coal production is not the smart thing to do for the economy.

Someone pass this on to GP for me:

http://www.npr.org/2016/05/03/476485...-and-coal-jobs

"THE SHORT ANSWER:

Clinton did tell a town hall audience in Columbus, Ohio in March that "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." But that was part of a longer answer about the need to help blue-collar workers adjust. "We're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people," Clinton said. "Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories. Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on."

THE LONG ANSWER:

A lot of coal miners and coal companies are going out of business. This is partly the result of Obama Administration policies designed to combat climate change, by shifting power-production away from carbon-intensive coal. It's also the result of the fracking boom, which has led to a sharp drop in the price of natural gas. Together, these forces have put coal at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to turning on our lights and powering our factories. A decade and a half ago, more than half the electricity in the U.S. was produced by burning coal. Today that's shrunk to less than a third, and coal continues to lose market share to natural gas and renewable sources of power.

Dozens of U.S. coal companies have filed for bankruptcy protection, including Arch Coal, the parent company of the mine where Bo Copley worked. Although the U.S. Supreme Court has put the Obama Administration's power plant rules on hold temporarily, many utilities continue to shift away from coal for both economic and environmental reasons. Coal mining employment dropped below 75,000 in 2014, with Appalachian mines seeing the steepest declines.

Hillary Clinton suggests those jobs are not coming back. "The way things are going now, we will continue to lose jobs," she said Monday. Rather than reversing Obama's climate agenda, as Republicans have promised to do, Clinton wants to help coal country adapt. The $30 billion plan she released last fall calls for increased job training, small-business development, and infrastructure investment, especially in Appalachia. The plan also seeks to safeguard miners' healthcare and pensions. "I have been talking about helping coal country for a very long time," Clinton said this week."

[Cthulhu 2020]

You do know executive orders are actions a president takes I am sure.

You mean the ones that have mostly been shot down? Or are so vague in their wording that basically nobody is following them?

Those executive orders/actions?

[Ragedaug]

Pretty sure GP still has me on ignore, but: the time before the ACA caused many issues for a lot of people who couldn't get insurance at all. Also the premiums did not increase because of Obamacare, which actually reduced the rate of increase. The ACA was a net benefit, which is part of why the attempt to scrap it failed so explosively. And it wasn't the Democrats who put Trumpcare in the trash can.

Nope. The "millions" of people on HC now who didn't have HC before were people who didn't want HC before they were forced to. Poor people had access to free HC before ObamaCare. All the AFA did was force people who didn't want to it buy into it. Then people who did have it before are now paying twice as much every month for Health Insurance that now covers a third of what it did before Pre-Obama. The AFA was designed to implode on itself and fail, at which time the left was going to declare the only way forward is socialized medicine.

Harry Reid from several weeks before people were able to buy into the AFA:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is predicting those plans, and the whole system of distributing them, will eventually be moot. Reid said he thinks the country has to “work our way past” insurance-based health care during a Friday night appearance on Vegas PBS’ program “Nevada Week in Review.”

“What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said.

When then asked by panelist Steve Sebelius whether he meant ultimately the country would have to have a health care system that abandoned insurance as the means of accessing it, Reid said: “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”

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In short, ObamaCare was designed to fail, and TrumpCare was likely only going to make it reach that point faster.

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Clinton wasn't a great speaker and that was a huge contributing factor to her defeat. Along with the smear campaign ran against her. Seriously, the only argument against Clinton is that she's Clinton.

You also act as if your everyday democrat had any actual say in who was put up for the nomination. A lot of them voted for Sanders you know. Which your everyday democrat didn't make the decision to have him run either. I think he just didn't have the name recognition like Clinton did. He was a nobody before 2016.

Getting money out of politics would solve all these problems. Too bad that won't happen with Trump.

Yeah, Trump is bad. Probably the 2nd worst politician to ever run for the White House. You know who was worse? The only politician who couldn't have beaten him. AKA the most corrupt person ever to run for the White House. Honestly, even Bernie exposed her corrupt corporate dealings, which doesn't even touch on any of her scandals, and then we find out the DNC worked with her to ensure she defeated Sanders, basically pointing out the corruptness in the entire DNC, including the sham that is the DNC primaries where none of ya'll even have a voice in who gets nominated, and you all just meekly went along with all of it. I hope you enjoy Trump for the next 4 years. You earned it.

[Mormolyce]

I will try to keep this short. She would carry on a lot of Obama's agenda and if you disapprove of Obama's agenda, then that is a good enough reason.

You mean like Obamacare?

Oh... wait...

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AKA the most corrupt person ever to run for the White House.

Not even close.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

She would not have even tried. She liked it because she felt it was popular with her supporters.

Not trying to replace Obamacare > Trying to replace it with something that's worse, failing, and keeping Obamacare anyway.

[RampageBW1]

Is deprivalists a word?

Not according to my spell checker.

Damn, someone pulled a George W Bush.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Wow. So much to unpack here...

Nope. The "millions" of people on HC now who didn't have HC before were people who didn't want HC before they were forced to.

So, basically, you're making things up from the get-go, if you're implying that everyone who got insurance didn't want it, or even a majority didn't. Ask all those people screaming at the town halls whether or not they wanted insurance.

Poor people had access to free HC before ObamaCare. All the AFA did was force people who didn't want to it buy into it.

By this I assume you mean people could go into emergency rooms, get treatment, then not pay their bills? Which ultimately contributed to higher medical costs for everyone? I thought the Republicans were the party of personal responsibility. Why are you condoning this? It may surprise you, but a lot of people don't want to owe tens of thousands of dollars that they can't pay.

Then people who did have it before are now paying twice as much every month for Health Insurance that now covers a third of what it did before Pre-Obama.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...nap-story.html

An important new study by Loren Adler and Paul Ginsburg of the Brookings Institution adds another key factor. Their finding is that, even with an expected spike in premium increases for 2017, rates are still lower than they would have been without the Affordable Care Act. They calculate that premiums would have to rise by more than 44% for next year to approach where they would have been given the pre-ACA trend line. In fact, Adler and Ginsburg are being conservative — they calculated a rise of 5% a year from pre-ACA rates, even though the actual annual increases ranged from 11.7% in 2010 to 7-8% in 2011-2013.

The AFA was designed to implode on itself and fail, at which time the left was going to declare the only way forward is socialized medicine.

Harry Reid from several weeks before people were able to buy into the AFA:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is predicting those plans, and the whole system of distributing them, will eventually be moot. Reid said he thinks the country has to “work our way past” insurance-based health care during a Friday night appearance on Vegas PBS’ program “Nevada Week in Review.”

“What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said.

When then asked by panelist Steve Sebelius whether he meant ultimately the country would have to have a health care system that abandoned insurance as the means of accessing it, Reid said: “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”

--
In short, ObamaCare was designed to fail, and TrumpCare was likely only going to make it reach that point faster.

You are bad at reading, if that's what you got from Reid's quote. Saying something is 'a step in the right direction' but not the final goal is a far cry from saying it's 'designed to fail'. And Trumpcare was going to set it on fire, killing tens of thousands of people unless and until Trump and the GOP could come up with something better, which they obviously can't.

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Thanks, seems like it was a misunderstanding on his part.



Thanks to another poster



Basically, if we're moving to a more clean form of energy then of course there will be job losses for the other less clean forms of energy. It's not like they're out to get those people because "fuck goal miners" or some shit. It's just basic logic. More clean energy means less of a need for dirty energy which means less people hired to collect those materials.

And the thing is coal jobs are going away regardless, because coal is garbage. Nobody should want more coal jobs.

[Super Kami Dende]

Doesn't matter. As long as they keep saying it, a lot of people will believe it. Belief matters more than reality.

That isn't a Republican specific thing though, Liberals also have a huge problem with believing stupid shit over reality. Both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to separating fact from fiction

[Thetruth1400]

I know he's signed a bunch of other executive orders but until he starts trying to close federal agencies I don't think he's going to manage anything "permanent".

I think the only permanent thing he's going to do is, if it ever gets off the ground that is, have the wall built. As much as people complain about it, I'm pretty sure they'd complain even more about having to pay again to have it torn down.

I truly believe the Democrats are going to have to royally fuck up for us to not see a Democratic president in 2020. Only 1,394 days, 23 hours, and 31 minutes until Trump is out of office, hopefully we survive.

And the thing is coal jobs are going away regardless, because coal is garbage. Nobody should want more coal jobs.

Right there with you on this point. There are some jobs that are in need of just becoming obsolete as tech has advanced to the point of us not needing those jobs anymore. Coal is THE worst fossil fuel we still use, and it's time to go. We've got the tech for better forms of energy, it's time to use them.

[Super Kami Dende]

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