Has it always been like this?

[Zorachus]

6+ months into Legion, and I am still playing 5 or 6 nights every week.

I can't say the same for WoD, by six months in, I think I was already unsubbed, and if not, just playing couple nights a week. I think Legion has been really good to date, especially for a game that is 13 years old already.

Could Legion be better, yes of course, but could also be a hell of a lot worse too.

[Darkeon]

Some expansion periods more than others, but yes, it's something always present to some degree.

[Jaylock]

i noticed on the wow threads, on the patch notes not here yet thread, that somone said "the game was getting better and better till wrath then it took one step forward 100 steps back, game is shit and has been since wrath" yet they are on the forums so they are still playing the game, they also are playing a demon hunter...

lol. gotta love the irony

[The One Percent]

Always, even in classic where people seem to think it was when WoW was "perfect".

[Notdev]

I didn't like WoD, but I'd say it had more appeal to people who played this game 8-12 hours a week than it did/does to people who play 25-40 hours a week.

My guild raids 2 days a week for only 7 hours total, but the amount of time half the raid team spends in the game is pretty staggering. Talking 40-50+ hours easy. The people who actually needed to raid 2 days a week because of time commitments are long gone.

[Marrilaife]

6+ months into Legion, and I am still playing 5 or 6 nights every week.

Yes, Legion is an amazing expansion for those who can and wish to devote every single free evening they have to just this one activity that is playing WOW. That assuming you aren't a completionist, altoholic, or someone who wishes rewards reflected skill or effort, because then no, Legion isn't for you.

[Rhoads44]

The community will continue to be a hyperactive mutation of what our current society looks like.

We have a new generation of gamers who think they're special and entitled to something because they/their parents are paying a subscription. They are overly opinionated and look to be offended and upset as quickly as possible so they can have an army of offended little turds at their back.

It wasn't always like this per se. The way people are being negative has changed, but overwhelmingly, the negative will flush out the positive.

Speaking as someone who played since launch, the community now is fractured and split. There's no sense of community, really. Thanks to cross-realm, LFR Queuing, all the things that turned this game into a theme-park where you just wait in line for a queue to pop....that's what ruined the community aspect.

[GhostSkull]

Complaining about complaining. How delicious!

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Response to WoD was much worse - rightfully so.
This forum was close to 100% positive when Legion come out. Now it's almost all about the rng/legendary whine, which frankly doesn't really affect anyone except the hardcore mythic raiders.

This would hold true, if some legendaries didn't significantly change the playstyle of some specs. The shoulders for BM an an excellent example of this, as well as the helm for Boomkins. AP being locked to each spec and legendaries are the primary problems of Legion. The content as a whole is quite good, and the variety offered is far better than WoD. The problems arise from the RNG nature of the legendary system and the sense of being penalized when you get a "bad" legendary.

AP being locked to each weapon may make sense from a lore-perspective, but it fucking sucks from a gameplay perspective for those who play multiple specs. With how many systems they copied from D3, I really wish they'd taken the paragon level system too in place of AP. Any progress in AP on any character would benefit all your characters, rather than being used for one spec of one character.

I like Legion a lot, but the AP and Legendary systems have caused a significant amount of burnout for me. I suspect there are a fair number of people who share a similar sentiment.

[Zorachus]

I guess one beef with Legion, is it's not alt friendly. If you want to have one good geared character, in the i900+ range with 2 legendary's, and be great at Raiding, you can only concentrate on a single character in this expansion.

If you try to have your alts also in i900 gear with a legendary too, there's just not enough time for all of that. You'd need to play a crap ton to have 2 or 3 characters all geared in i900 gear.

AP not being transferred to different specs sucks too. I play a Death Knight Tank and also a DPS spec. Sucks when I fill up AP in Blood, that I have to do it all over again in Frost.

[Laerrus]

People did the exact same thing for WoTLK and MoP... and now those two are regarded by many as the most fun expansions ever.

I guarantee they will do the same for Legion.

[Dangg]

Minorities are loud. Not only in WoW

Some issues in this xpack aren't necessary only a problem for a minority and deserved complains.

[Marrilaife]

This would hold true, if some legendaries didn't significantly change the playstyle of some specs. The shoulders for BM an an excellent example of this, as well as the helm for Boomkins. AP being locked to each spec and legendaries are the primary problems of Legion. The content as a whole is quite good, and the variety offered is far better than WoD. The problems arise from the RNG nature of the legendary system and the sense of being penalized when you get a "bad" legendary.

AP being locked to each weapon may make sense from a lore-perspective, but it fucking sucks from a gameplay perspective for those who play multiple specs. With how many systems they copied from D3, I really wish they'd taken the paragon level system too in place of AP. Any progress in AP on any character would benefit all your characters, rather than being used for one spec of one character.

I like Legion a lot, but the AP and Legendary systems have caused a significant amount of burnout for me. I suspect there are a fair number of people who share a similar sentiment.

You're right, it baffles me how could they implement rotation-changers in a form of RNG legendaries instead of accessible-to-all talents or artifact traits. That is the place where they should put stuff that significantly alters your rotation, second place would be set bonuses, even though I still think talents or artifact traits would be better place because not everyone raids (or even lfrs).

Another my pet peeve is they finally managed to make legendaries stop feeling legendary, in the same manner as wotlk made "epics no longer feel epic" (because in TBC they still weren't so cheap and common even with the addition of badge gear). Soon we will have to get "ancient", "primal" or some other extra layer of oomph like diablo, because common legendary is not good enough. In the past, legendaries in WOW had some lore behind them and felt special, now not anymore. In the expansion where we're already wielding ashbringers and doomhammers and shards of frostmourne and scepter of sargeras etc. etc. did we really end up so short on "coolness factor" they had to pepper the game with 10 legendaries per spec... (ok, some of them are shared, but that's details).

Another good point is if people don't enjoy their class or spec that's the lens they're gonna see the whole game through. And Legion isn't exactly a good expansion to be constantly experimenting with specs or rerolling to find an enjoyable one, and even if you do, Blizzard might change it. I'm really wondering what 7.2.5 is gonna bring us, since they said the x.x.5 patches will concentrate on class balance while those without .5 will on adding content (which is current 7.2). If they turn some specs upside down again, it will be an issue.

Blizzard said it themselves: more people quit the game because they made changes someone didn't like than people who quit because change they wanted didn't get implemented. But since they're so afraid of getting accused the game has gone stale, they're constantly changing stuff for the sake of changing.

[everydaygamer]

"This always happens" is not a reason to brush aside complaints and criticisms of the game.

Yeah, people always complain. I don't think Legion is the worst expansion ever, but it has done a lot of damage to the community and raiders who didn't want to spend endless hours grinding because of AP/Legendaries/Titanforging.

I'm still having fun, but I'm lucky enough to work from home and spend a good amount of time in game. If I still worked 40-50 hours a week at an office + commute, I probably would have quit Legion. Even saying that, however, my horrible legendary luck is infuriating and negatively effects my enjoyment a pretty large amount.

My guild died and reformed, we were pretty lucky with recruitment but from a couple weeks into Legion we've been pretty much bleeding members to RL/quitting non stop, and that hasn't stopped with the reform. The turnover is incredibly high. Maybe 2 out of 20-30 people who left went to other guilds. The rest quit.

Except grinding isn't necessary, maxing out your weapon is nice but it's not needed, Legendaries are great but you can succeed with out them and titanforging is a fun bonus that makes it so that anything you do can possibly give you an upgrade.

Why are guilds dieing? Well because raiding is no longer the only place to get the best gear so why commit to a raiding schedule if you can succeed by playing on your own time. Course the other issue is that those of us who do like raiding eventually hit a wall because we can't get 20 people for mythics so that is definitely blizzards fault.

[Deleted]

Don't confuse a few edgy weirdos with "the community" please.

[Deleted]

Complaining about complaining. How delicious!

Complaining the complaining about complaining. How delicious!

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

It's always been this way.

Part of it is these forums are kinda a 24/7 news cycle where we fill time by nitpicking little issues. Most of it, though, is the usual cycle of "this expansion is the worst, the one two* expansions ago was the best."

* exempting Cata, nobody ever thought that was best. We just had 2 expansions worth of Wrath love.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

This have been happening since Cata's Beta, when incompetent developers, like GC, started to force their personal vision of "perfect" game design on players, despite of tons of negative feedback during Betas and constant sub drops during xpacks themselves.

Yeah, I know, that this chart is getting old, but it's still the best representation of situation in Wow:


Legion is bad. Some people are simply blind to see it - it the same people, who were telling me, that WOD was "best xpack ever made".

Sorry, this has been going on since much longer. Its fine if you didn't play then, but pretending like it started in Cata and with GC is pretty ignorant. But you often say ignorant things.

- - - Updated - - -

"This always happens" is not a reason to brush aside complaints and criticisms of the game.

Yeah, people always complain. I don't think Legion is the worst expansion ever, but it has done a lot of damage to the community and raiders who didn't want to spend endless hours grinding because of AP/Legendaries/Titanforging.

I'm still having fun, but I'm lucky enough to work from home and spend a good amount of time in game. If I still worked 40-50 hours a week at an office + commute, I probably would have quit Legion. Even saying that, however, my horrible legendary luck is infuriating and negatively effects my enjoyment a pretty large amount.

My guild died and reformed, we were pretty lucky with recruitment but from a couple weeks into Legion we've been pretty much bleeding members to RL/quitting non stop, and that hasn't stopped with the reform. The turnover is incredibly high. Maybe 2 out of 20-30 people who left went to other guilds. The rest quit.

RNG complaints have been happening since 1.0.

[Sio]

It started getting worse in Cata, in tune with bad design decisions that seem to get dumber and dumber as time goes on. Combine that with an older game where people are less inclined to put up with BS and you get more anger/hate.

I didn't hate WoD as much as others did (stuck with it the whole way through) but man if Legion hasn't just sapped my will and interest in playing this game.

[Manabomb]

The community here seems extremely negative, calling Legion one of the worst expansions pretty regularly at this point, I really can't understand that, it's as if they hate WoW now but can't see it so they choose to keep blaming the game.

I started reading these forums regularly when WoD hype was real, so I understood the hate WoD got and I passed it off as the expansion just lacking much of anything to do.

But now... my question to some of the mmo-champion vets who don't hate Legion with a bloody passion is, is it truly like this every expansion? Has the community grone more cynical and negative over time?

These kids don't know what a bad expansion is. TBC, now that was a bad expansion. Horrible plot, shitty heroic dungeon design (revered to get a key just to get in?Lolol), questing experience was dry and had almost nothing to do with why we were actually there or what we are trying to do other than "hurr legion, hurr elves, hurr naga, hurr Illidan." which really was only told throughout the raiding scene.

If you want a modern example to "shit expansion" look at none other than WoD. But you won't see a lot of people say either of those two expansions were shitty on this website. Why? Because those two expansions were pretty much universally good to raiders and shit for everyone else.

But when you get expansions like Legion, MoP and WotLK that give a fuck about casual players and/or pvp content and gives raiders the giant middle finger, suddenly it's the worst expansion ever. But that's raider mentality for you, the inability to look at the whole objectively.